Off Lead Park Etiquette

[MuckyPug]

Firstly, Hi.

And now I need some advice.

We have a just turned 2 year old pug, Max. He's a lovely dog, very placid and quite social. We take him along to Pugwood (Elsternwick Park) on a semi regular basis (we are fair weather Pugwood attendees!). He is great with the other dogs there, pugs and others, even the big dogs. He likes to chase and be chased. He has pretty good recall, will come and sit when called (once he's run his sillies out, and settles a bit which we try and do before we go so he's a bit pooped!).

We have an off lead, fenced dog park very close to us which I've just discovered. We have been 3 times, and two times we have been, Max has been 'hassled' by the bigger dogs, with not a good result.

When we go, he wants to chase his ball (he is ball obsessed, and will retrieve that ball no matter how many times we throw it and it's great exercise for him because we can throw it much further than the confines of our garden and because he's quite athletic and loves a good run he loves it). He will sniff the other dogs, run around but then he wanders off to do his ball thing.

The first time we went, a large dog (ridgeback cross with a dane I think it was) stood over Max, playfully, but Max felt intimidated and came back to us to move away. Large dog followed and continued to stand over him, sniff him but move around and not let Max sniff him, all the time trying to get Max to "play" be jumping over him. This went on for a few minutes, Max with his tail down, trying to move away and the big dog just towering over him. Then big dog barked at Max and Max lost his temper and turned on the dog. He showed his teeth and looked so scary to me. I call Max away, but it took a few seconds for him to pull away and I sat him, put his lead on and we left.

Then we went back the next day and it happened again, with 2 labs. They just got right up in his face. They sniffed, he sniffed and then when he tried to leave, they got on top of him barking and chased and he didn't like being chased by big dogs and again got his teeth out.

My heart was pounding. I've never seen him "mean". And I'm so worried that if he gets cranky with these big dogs, they will turn on him and he'll come off second best for sure. Or, if he managed to latch onto one of these bigger dogs, we will get into lots of trouble and we don't want to lose him.

So, what's etiquette in this situation? It's obvious that Max wants to be left alone by these big dogs, he removes himself and I always move to the far ends of the park, but they persist and their owners just watch and laugh and say "oh, mine only wants to play".

Is Max just antisocial and not cut out for off lead parks? Or can I ask the owners to call their dogs away when they stand over him?

It's shame, because a lot of the dogs just come up, have a sniff and then off on their way and Max does the same to them - but there's these few dogs that just want to get right in his face and he just doesn't like it and I don't know what to do

[WreckitWhippet]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

[poodlefan]

Max's behaviour is both natural and normal for a dog being intimidated by others - he's telling them to back the hell off. Your job as his owner is to ensure that he doesn't get placed in situations like this. That means actively intervening to stop it happening or preventing it happening.

My first suggestion is that you don't use a ball in a dog park populated by other dogs - it tends to be a magnet for dogs and can create dust ups over possession of one.

My second suggestion is one you won't like - don't run him with big dogs. Sadly, some dog owners seem to think that anything goes unless their dogs are in some kind of danger. Your only option when they trot out the "mine only wants to play" argument is to tell them to call their dogs off because yours doesnt. Good luck. Some larger dog owners can't see an issue and you've got little chance of convincing them. One wonders if they'd feel the same seeing their two year old child chased and roughed up by a bunch of adult rugby players but that's their view.

So I'd say don't use the park when there are larger dogs there. That's what many small dog owners (including me) have had to do.

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[MuckyPug]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

[MuckyPug]

sorry - double post.

Edited April 20, 2011 by MuckyPUg

[persephone]

Max's behaviour is both natural and normal for a dog being intimidated by others - he's telling them to back the hell off. Your job as his owner is to ensure that he doesn't get placed in situations like this. That means actively intervening to stop it happening or preventing it happening.

My first suggestion is that you don't use a ball in a dog park populated by other dogs - it tends to be a magnet for dogs and can create dust ups over possession of one.

My second suggestion is one you won't like - don't run him with big dogs.

What PF says .

[~Anne~]

In NSW, at Baulkham Hills, the Council was sensible enough to have two cmpletely separate areas that are nfeced off. One for small dogs and one for large. I have never heard of any other parks like this though.

[Shazzapug]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

I also suggest dont go to that park anymore....stick to Pugwood. Max is reacting like a typical Pug, and if you put him in that situation too often he could be asking for a fight. You have to remember that Max thinks he is as big as a Rotti and he will stand up for himself if pushed too far by a big dog.

[Leelaa17]

First of all - Welcome MuckyPUg!

Im sorry to say but I have been in this situation with my two very large GSD - and to be perfectly honest I got EXTREMELY annoyed (and please dont think I am talking about you in this situation - this is a personal experience) when a couple came in to an offlead dog park with their JRT.

They carried him in and wouldnt put him down because Max was following them trying to see what they had in their hands (I was the only person in the VERY LARGE dog park and I was sitting under a free)... When they put their dog down the dog started doing zoomies and max was chasing him - the dog kept going and going and didnt run to the owners in fear of max - he just kept doing zoomies...

Long story short - the woman owner hit my dog because it wouldnt styop chasing the JRT. I got up and abused the s**t out of her. I do NOT in ANY way think max OR I were in the wrong. The dog CLEARLY wasnt scared and Max wasnt being aggressive at all. I went ape s**t at this lady because she asked 'is this your dog' (well duh I was the only one there) and then she hit him... Max came running back to me because I started yelling my head off at her.

Since this has happened I have been extremely aware about people and their little dogs.

Dogs will sort themselves out. (Most of the time). Has your little pug hurt any of the other dogs? Have the other dogs hurt your little pug? (All you can do is take charge of your pug - unfortunately you WILL get deads**ts at the dog park who dont care that your dog is distressed - and I AM the kind of person who would say 'its alright hes great with little dogs) - but if someone said to me well my dog isnt good then I would take max away - but I would ALSO ask 'why are you at an offlead dog park then?'

Your pug is lashing out at bigger dogs because that is their way of saying 'no I dont want to be sniffed leave me alone' - if the big dogs wont leave then I would politely ask the owners to just be mindful of their dogs because your dog doesnt like them and you dont want any of them getting hurt...

As I said - dogs learn to sort themselves out - doing little snaps and doing little barks is your pugs way of saying leave me alone - and that is ok - it only turns bad when you dont know how the other dog will react... And you never do.

So honestly? I would steer clear of THAT dog park - you said you go to another one? Stick to going to that one.

[Leelaa17]

In NSW, at Baulkham Hills, the Council was sensible enough to have two cmpletely separate areas that are nfeced off. One for small dogs and one for large. I have never heard of any other parks like this though.

They're actually doing that in Doonside as well. They just need the funds to get it going.

[poodlefan]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

I also suggest dont go to that park anymore....stick to Pugwood. Max is reacting like a typical Pug, and if you put him in that situation too often he could be asking for a fight. You have to remember that Max thinks he is as big as a Rotti and he will stand up for himself if pushed too far by a big dog.

Somehow I doubt that. Max tried to remove himself from these dogs. He couldn't. If flight wasn't an option, he didn't have many others..

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[MuckyPug]

Thanks poodlefan and persephone - my husband said the same thing, just pick my times and only take him in when there's no big dogs in there. The paddocks surrounding the park are off lead too and although they are not fenced, I think we may do our ball chasing there. My biggest worry is that if we keep repeating this, he may get nervous around all big dogs and not just the ones that get in his face (because he's fine to say hello, and go their separate ways but you don't always which dogs will do this).

I didn't think of not taking his ball and the problem it could cause - thanks for that. Makes sense.

Ah well, perhaps we'll stick to Pugwood and the paddocks.

[poodlefan]

Thanks poodlefan and persephone - my husband said the same thing, just pick my times and only take him in when there's no big dogs in there. The paddocks surrounding the park are off lead too and although they are not fenced, I think we may do our ball chasing there. My biggest worry is that if we keep repeating this, he may get nervous around all big dogs and not just the ones that get in his face (because he's fine to say hello, and go their separate ways but you don't always which dogs will do this).

I didn't think of not taking his ball and the problem it could cause - thanks for that. Makes sense.

Ah well, perhaps we'll stick to Pugwood and the paddocks.

Your other option is to only run with with large dogs you know will behave appropriately. That means dogs known to you. That can't be done in a public dog park

[tlc]

I think Maxs reaction is totally normal, One of my girls is exactly the same, she has a couple of big dog friends (lab, rotti, vizsla) that she knows and is fine with but if a big dog comes up to her in her face sniffing etc, she doesn't like it one little bit and will let them know.

We are very lucky with our dog parks where I live we have huge areas and if I see a large dog approaching I can put Lacy on her lead and she feels safer and more secure that way and I can stop other dogs getting too close or say to the owner please come and get your dog etc.

It annoys me when other owners say oh my dog just wants to play, not all dogs are big players. Mine are very sociable, been well socialized from an early age and are quite happy around other dogs but none of them like dogs in thier faces. One of mine also likes the ball.... a lot but it can be a problem at the park with other dogs especially if they try to come and take it from her.

Max is not the one with the problem, if he is happy to be in the park with all the other dogs around doing his own thing then thats fine but if the other dogs are too persistant and you can't find a happy medium then it makes it hard. You will always get others that don't supervise thier dogs and don't care what they do. I have found out that what you would think is common sense to some people is not to others. Common sense is really not that common.

Oh and another thing is if any dogs get up in my dogs faces and I think it is going to turn into something I always step in before it escalates. Leave the park, move to another area, tell the owners etc etc.

Edited April 20, 2011 by tlc

[Shazzapug]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

I also suggest dont go to that park anymore....stick to Pugwood. Max is reacting like a typical Pug, and if you put him in that situation too often he could be asking for a fight. You have to remember that Max thinks he is as big as a Rotti and he will stand up for himself if pushed too far by a big dog.

Somehow I doubt that. Max tried to remove himself from these dogs. He couldn't. If flight wasn't an option, he didn't have many others..

So now you claim to know more than I do about my breed.

[tlc]

In NSW, at Baulkham Hills, the Council was sensible enough to have two cmpletely separate areas that are nfeced off. One for small dogs and one for large. I have never heard of any other parks like this though.

Thats a great idea pity it isn't done at more parks.

[poodlefan]

Dogs will sort themselves out. (Most of the time). Has your little pug hurt any of the other dogs? Have the other dogs hurt your little pug? (All you can do is take charge of your pug - unfortunately you WILL get deads**ts at the dog park who dont care that your dog is distressed - and I AM the kind of person who would say 'its alright hes great with little dogs) - but if someone said to me well my dog isnt good then I would take max away - but I would ALSO ask 'why are you at an offlead dog park then?'

Yep, they will. One method is by fighting. That's not acceptable to me, particularly when the odds are stacked against one dog.

People take their dogs to offlead dog parks to run them offlead. Who says they have to want to play with others?

Allow your GSD to approach my dogs and I'd be telling you call it off very quickly. Allow it to chase them and it would be copping a boot. A dog in prey drive is capable of harming another dog and I've had the vet bills to prove it.

[wuffles]

If I just let the dogs at the dog park 'sort it out themselves' I have no doubt that at least one of my dogs would be severely traumatised and quite probably seriously injured by now.

That being said, I still go to dog parks on occasion. I am VERY vigilant and I understand my dogs' body language well. I know the signs of when they are frightened, or becoming overstimulated, are bullying or being bullied, and they are removed from these situations quick smart. I don't go at busy times and if I turn up and we're the only ones there, great!

IMO one-sided chasie games need to be stopped, no matter what size of dog and whether they seem to be enjoying it. Running alongside each other or taking turns is alright. I also break up any play that's not one-on-one. My dogs go back on leash until they have calmed down and in certain situations I just leave the park at once.

[MuckyPug]

thanks everyone.

I like the saying 'common sense is really not that common'. The first time it happened, it was SO obvious that Max was trying to move away from this dog. It took a good 5 minutes before he lashed out - he just kept coming back to me, going around, backing away, etc and the owner just stood a metre away, laughing and saying 'oh, she won't hurt him'.

I just don't understand why he couldn't see that Max didn't like it and call his dog off to find someone else his own size to play with (seriously, this dog was massive!).

Ah well, I suppose I'll just have to play it on a day by day basis, and pick my times.

Can I ask - if he is saying 'back off' but he bites another dog - we will be in big trouble, yeah?

[poodlefan]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

I also suggest dont go to that park anymore....stick to Pugwood. Max is reacting like a typical Pug, and if you put him in that situation too often he could be asking for a fight. You have to remember that Max thinks he is as big as a Rotti and he will stand up for himself if pushed too far by a big dog.

Somehow I doubt that. Max tried to remove himself from these dogs. He couldn't. If flight wasn't an option, he didn't have many others..

So now you claim to know more than I do about my breed.

No, but I suggest you know no more than I do about this dog. I'm trying to figure out how, from the OP's description of her dog's behaviour, you've concluded that Max considered himself the equal of dogs he was intimidated by. He didn't not behave aggresively until cornered.