Agression Towards Animals?

[all4addy]

Hi,

This is probably the wrong area, but I really really need help.

My son is 3yrs old. Hes my only boy (I have 2 girls) he has always been a very full on boy (the type where you say boys will be boys etc) and has hurt his sisters numerous times, which we duly let him know is no on.

Now he has gone onto hurting the animals! He is 3 not 7, and I understand that most people think it is not a cause for concern till then, but to ME it is. I am a passionate animal lover, and just can not understand why he does it.

We have tried reprimanding him in several ways, being kind, let to make him understand gently that he is hurting them and its making them sad, and also yelling, and several times, a smack. NOTHING gets through to him, he just ignores. We have been consistent and vigilently watching him, but this can't continue forever, I can't be a step behind him for the next few years, or I won't have any time to spend with the animals and children or my husband. I just fully don't understand what is going on, its like he is missing empathy and just doesn't understand feelings.

Having an animal-less life is not on for me, and besides we can't just ignore hte problem by getting new homes for the animals, he knows they are part of the family.

Examples are: he came running in the the cat, threw it down and did a dive bomb onto its head (sat on it) he was promptly removed at the cat checked to make sure it was okay, he KNOWS when the cat yowls, it means it doesn't like it, he stillgoes ahead with it regardless, the cat has scratched him, still does not deter him. With the dogs & cats he hugs them really tight, lik at death grip, he is prompty removed from the situation, I have even heldhis hand, and gently patted the cats/dogs, showing him to be gentle, he whacks the dogs over the head with any sort of stick and when they try to defend themself he thinks its funny.

I want this to stop now. Its breaking my heart from both sides, I really don't understand why hes doing it, and to me, my pets are my kids too.

I do not care if its "normal behaviour" for a 3yr old (according to some sites on the web) to me, it shouldn't happen at all.

I just don't know what to do next? My daughter has diabetes, so I am in touch with the diabetes educator at the hospital, if I speak to her she may have a suggestion, or do I just make an appointment with a fmaily councillor, or a psychiatrist, or psychologist? I am at dead end of where to go, whom to speak to? Does anybody know or can help? We need to get this sorted right now, It is A1 on my list of priorities as its kicking me senseless, I am so unbelivably upset.

Thank you to anybody whom can help xxxx

[Nekhbet]

Start with a psychologist and have him tested. Does he show any other traits towards people? Learning difficulties at school etc?

[all4addy]

Start with a psychologist and have him tested. Does he show any other traits towards people? Learning difficulties at school etc?

He's only three and a half, so not schooling yet. He gets too rough with his sisters as well, but that has calmed down lately. He's quiet and his speech is a bit behind, but he is very smart with logic/maths type puzzles etc. We have been thinking he might have a type of autism or ADHD, but we mostly get the "boys will be boys" response. As I said, I am starting to fell like he just doesn't have any sort of empathy, like that bits missing, and it really scares me, I may be over-reacting, hence why I want to see some sort of professional with him. I just don't know how to manage the situation anymore, since nothing seems to actually get through to him.

Thanks I will look into psychologists in our area.

[persephone]

how sad and worrying.

Please go to a paediatrician and a psychologist ASAP .

I hope you can get some help very soon!!

[dog geek]

Wow - that is clearly NOT the sort of behaviour you would want; and it is just sad that people want to label it as ''just boys will be boys" ... who would want their boy to be like that???

Truly it sounds like a type of autism, are you able to get a referral for as soon as possible from your GP? It might be that there are health professionals in your area who are covered under Medicare.

Certainly if you are able to get into the local health authority's autism assessment program you should do so asap, it often has very long waiting times.

Until then, look online for strategies and tips on how to manage his behaviours; if you need more help you can pm me, I don't have a huge amount of knowledge but have had somewhat similar suggestions and maybe can point you towards god info.

Good luck, and don't listen to the Supernanny, she is great for neurologically normal children, but has an effect diametrically opposed to what you hope for in children with ASD or similar syndromes.

Cheers

Nicola

[dog geek]

Wow - that is clearly NOT the sort of behaviour you would want; and it is just sad that people want to label it as ''just boys will be boys" ... who would want their boy to be like that???

Truly it sounds like a type of autism, are you able to get a referral for as soon as possible from your GP? It might be that there are health professionals in your area who are covered under Medicare.

Certainly if you are able to get into the local health authority's autism assessment program you should do so asap, it often has very long waiting times.

Until then, look online for strategies and tips on how to manage his behaviours; if you need more help you can pm me, I don't have a huge amount of knowledge but have had somewhat similar suggestions and maybe can point you towards god info.

Good luck, and don't listen to the Supernanny, she is great for neurologically normal children, but has an effect diametrically opposed to what you hope for in children with ASD or similar syndromes.

Cheers

Nicola

[DobieMum]

All4addy how heartbreaking for you. I really can't help you with the animal issue, I'm sorry, but when I read about his speech being an issue, I can help there. Quick history.......My son was always slow (at 3 1/2 he was still in nappies) we were in the Territory at the time and no-one could help us as to tell us what to do with him, he was diagnosed with Aspergers and Epilepsy (which he definatly doesn't have now we have the we have other issues sorted). BUT always, we got "Oh he's got a speech problem to, you ought to see a Speech Therapist about that". When we got back to Qld we put him in Prep year and was seeing a Speechy once a week, my son was falling further and further behind the other kids, socially and emotionally. Then our Speechy put us onto The Glenleighden School, it's a Special Needs Speech School here in Brisbane. My son spent 2 years there and now is back in a main stream school and is doing well. He's in year 2 now.

The reason I am writing is something the Speech Therapist at the School once said to me...."Your son is different from some other children as he can speak his words, but he struggles with what is going on behind, taking it in and processing and then needing output. He doesn't understand what your trying to tell him. The best way to describe this is to give you a picture. I'm going to put you on a plane to Japan and drop you in the middle of Gifu (a very tiny town in Japan) and I'm just going to leave you there with only the clothes on your back, you get home. This is how your son feels. He knows people are talking round him, he can hear them and if he's around long enough he can start to pick up words, but he can't communicate with them."

I'm not here to promote the school (though it was the best thing we as a family could have ever have done), what i'm here about, is don't let the experts all tell you that, speech is a small part of the process. If he's like my son it could be the whole reason you are having difficulties and sometimes a Speechy can get a point accross to your child (that you've struggled long and hard with) because they know the right way to talk to your child.

Sorrry if this was soooo off topic, but I stuggled for 6 years with my son and I don't like to think of others struggling to, when their may be no need to.

Shell

[dog geek]

. oops double post .

[Vickie]

How awful for you

I don't have any advice for you sorry, but feel for what you are going through.

Question... Do you encourage him to be nice to the animals?

My son has just turned 7. Until recently I have only allowed him to coexist with the animals & never encouraged him

to interact with them. Strangely enough most of them prefer to be with him over my daughter. He is regularly curled up on the couch with 2 dogs & a cat and has developed a beautiful relationship with them.

[dancinbcs]

I generally don't sell puppies to anyone with 1 or 2 year olds because it is impossible to explain to a child that age how they should interact with a puppy, but by 3 years most children, boys or girls, are usually fine to understand how to treat a puppy. I have never come across a 3 year old yet that I would be worried about so if your son is 3 and still isn't grasping your explanations then I think you do need professional help now before he really hurts an animal or is badly hurt himself when one retaliates. Even 2 year olds are usually not deliberately cruel, they just don't realise that hitting or sitting on a puppy will hurt it.

Also the "boys will be boys" attitude should apply to boys being loud, active and impulsive but never cruel. I sold a puppy to family with 4 young boys once. They all came to visit the litter weekly and they were very much boisterous boys. I had one puppy that would run and hide the minute they ran into the yard but they loved the dogs, would sit down to play with the puppies and I never thought for one moment that any one of them would ever intentionally hurt a puppy. I sold them a bombproof outgoing female puppy and it turned out to be a wonderful home for her.

[all4addy]

Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate it.

My husband is going to call a nearby psychologist, who seems to do things under medicare, workcover, and does reports & assessments, so she sounds qualified enough for the moment. If we need a referral I will speak to our diabetes educator about seeing a paed to get a referral.

My 2 year old girl has a better understanding of animals, she understands to be gentle and kind, so does my 5 year old girl. Its just him that he doesn't seem to be grasping the concept.

I always encourage the kids to be gentle with every living creature. They play with ants, locusts, everything, and watch and try to understand it. I'm just at the end of my rope with him. I have cfs that is triggered worse by stress, so right now I am feeling absolutely exhausted and at the end of my tether.

If I see the psychologist, should that be a good example of whether to further assessment to an autism team, or should I book an appointment with the assessment team as well? xxx

[Animal House]

It does sound like he has no "Stop" button, and the "lack of empathy" definitely is a cause for concern.

I would get him to a child pediatrician (who specialises in behavioral issues) and go from there.

Please keep the animals away from him (for their sake as well as his) as most dogs won't put up with being squeezed too tight, and you wouldn't want him being bitten.

I feel for you, but don't take on board "boys will be boys" rubbish.

[Animal House]

Sorry, I posted when you were posting.

Can you get a referral to a recommended pediatrician first? He/she can then do appropriate tests and go from there.

A psychologist could miss something medical if you go to them first.

[aussielover]

How stressful for you!

Does he seem to get pleasure from being cruel to animals or is it that he just doesn't realise or care he is hurting them?

I also recommend seeing a paediatrician or psychologist.

[persephone]

I hope the psych you are contacting is experienced in childhood mental health .... perhaps ask around for another referral - one who works with kids?

[fuzzy82]

I am not a parent, so this might be way off, but until it has been sorted I would either keep the animals separate, ie have a room set up for the cat where the kid isn't allowed (and can't get in even if he tries) and/or put a leash on the kid (you know those kid harnesses with the leash) and leash him to you when you can't watch him, the way you would with a puppy, and get a playpen (3 might be a bit old for a playpen, I don't know?) where you can put him when you can't watch him.

I see no reason why a toddler should be allowed to run around the house on his own without being supervised when he is known to hurt animals. You need to somehow manage the animals and him so that they are never in contact when not being watched by an adult.

He sat on the cat's head. That could have killed the cat, it could have broken its neck/spine, fractured the skull, not to mention it would have been scary and painful. You need to somehow prevent him from getting in contact with animals.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Keep animals and child separate - for everyone's safety. Plus if your son is struggling to understand how to treat the animals this type of behaviour could become habit, then it becomes an even longer term issue.

I've worked with quite a few kids who have autism or aspbergers and they function on so many different levels. For some animals are their gateway to the rest of the world. For others they are just things the way anything else is a "thing".

In terms of your son, definitely see a specialist (and someone who deals with early childhood to adolescent issues not just any psych). The local school may have recommendations of good people in the area or if your son is at 3yo kinder or creche they may have contacts. Seeing kids with these problems in the educations system, I would also suggest see more than 1 - it is always good to have a second opinion with what his problem could potentially be, and you want to minimise the risk of misdiagnosis (which can occur frequently with health issues such as these ones).

No matter what you will be able to create a system that works for you household, but separate the animals and your son so that you don't need to have anymore angst about this until you know what you're dealing with and can develop a strategy that is going to work for all of you.

Good luck!

[all4addy]

Thanks.

My husband and I had a big fight today (obviously not my day is it?) but he called our educator to get a referral to a good paed, we will go from there.

The cats are seperated via 1-2 baby gates (the first is the metal one that seperates the kitchen/schoolroom from the rest of the house, the second is one of those retractable mesh ones that make it hard to climb over, its off the ground a bit, just enough to allow the cats to go under from one part of the house to the next.)

So hes mostly seperated during the daytime, its just when the cats decide they want to come in the kitchen that the problems begin, or at night when they are with their dad in the lounge. The puppy stays with me through most of the day, only going outside for play & toilet. And our elder dog stays outside most of the time (we give her the option of coming inside when we are not eating, most of hte time shes happier playing in the yard).

We have begun 3rd stage seperation, in that DS is not allowed in any room that there are currently animals in. My eldest also protects the puppy (shes called herself the puppys secret spy bodyguard lol) if I am making food and puppy is near me, so I only have to keep half an ear and eye out. So hopefully that will stop any further "attacks" but we still need him checkd out as he can't be totally seperated from the animals forever.

He was being quite good this morning with supervised pats with the cat and got lots of encouragement and calsp and smiles, praise etc from me for it.

After watching him with the cat, I think it might be provoking a response? him trying to figure out how far he can go, and the noises the animal makes when he does so? So if that interests him, and thats the total of what it is, that actually makes it harder, if hes obssessed with the different noises and tones of the animals?

Anyway heopfulyl we should soon have an appointment with a good paed and start getting to the bottom of this. Oh, I should mention, he has an obsession with anything stick-like, plastic tubes, toilet rolls, anything he can whack somethng with. And it seems as the "whacking" of his sisters has lessened, thats when he seemed to be more interested in the animals?

[sheena]

Thanks.

My husband and I had a big fight today (obviously not my day is it?) but he called our educator to get a referral to a good paed, we will go from there.

The cats are seperated via 1-2 baby gates (the first is the metal one that seperates the kitchen/schoolroom from the rest of the house, the second is one of those retractable mesh ones that make it hard to climb over, its off the ground a bit, just enough to allow the cats to go under from one part of the house to the next.)

So hes mostly seperated during the daytime, its just when the cats decide they want to come in the kitchen that the problems begin, or at night when they are with their dad in the lounge. The puppy stays with me through most of the day, only going outside for play & toilet. And our elder dog stays outside most of the time (we give her the option of coming inside when we are not eating, most of hte time shes happier playing in the yard).

We have begun 3rd stage seperation, in that DS is not allowed in any room that there are currently animals in. My eldest also protects the puppy (shes called herself the puppys secret spy bodyguard lol) if I am making food and puppy is near me, so I only have to keep half an ear and eye out. So hopefully that will stop any further "attacks" but we still need him checkd out as he can't be totally seperated from the animals forever.

He was being quite good this morning with supervised pats with the cat and got lots of encouragement and calsp and smiles, praise etc from me for it.

After watching him with the cat, I think it might be provoking a response? him trying to figure out how far he can go, and the noises the animal makes when he does so? So if that interests him, and thats the total of what it is, that actually makes it harder, if hes obssessed with the different noises and tones of the animals?

Anyway heopfulyl we should soon have an appointment with a good paed and start getting to the bottom of this. Oh, I should mention, he has an obsession with anything stick-like, plastic tubes, toilet rolls, anything he can whack somethng with. And it seems as the "whacking" of his sisters has lessened, thats when he seemed to be more interested in the animals?

I noticed you mentioned "schoolroom"....does he get much social interaction with other kids other than his siblings...if so...how does he cope with other kids. I would definately be keeping him away from animals.

[persephone]

I'm glad you are getting some help Sorry you have had a rough day tho.