Crisovar Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Sorry, I forgot I needed to sometimes make my sentences more exact and precise so that the intention can't be twisted or misrepresented in some smarmy way. Just for you Sheridan; Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked, with a natural long and undocked tail wagging its tail just the way nature intended. Do you own a docked breed Anne??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying that breeders shouldn't have that right, however I'm not the one that took it away from them and I don't understand why it is such a huge deal. Honestly I really can't see that whether or not my dog, or anyone's dog for that matter, has a tail, how that makes him (or her) less than or ugly or bad looking. The law is not going to change, what good is it to keep trying to hang onto something that is in the past. In 20 years everyone will be used to the way docked breeds look with a tail and I bet that the owners of these future dogs don't feel like they have been cheated or denied something. It is just a tail for goodness sake. In the grand scheme of things does it really matter that much? If it causes so much of a problem for someone then I really feel sorry for that person. They must have little else in their life if this is such a point of contention for them. ETA I really don't want to argue about this and I seem to be having a problem with making my point understood. I am not against docking, I LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS, however it is not something that really matters to me. Life has plenty of bigger things for me to be so up in arms about. Edited April 18, 2011 by dobesrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail.... How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Sorry, I forgot I needed to sometimes make my sentences more exact and precise so that the intention can't be twisted or misrepresented in some smarmy way. Just for you Sheridan; Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked, with a natural long and undocked tail wagging its tail just the way nature intended. Do you own a docked breed Anne??? What has owning a docked breed got to do with my thoughts on docking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't have an opinion on whether it is cruel or not but I'd like to know from those that say it isn't cruel/no one else's business etc, what evidence is their that it doesn't cause pain to the dog? Have there been studies where cortisol levels have been measured pre-during-post docking? Heart rates measured? The dog not showing pain isn't evidence IMO, as many dogs are very stoic (egmmy boy continued to walk and play when he was very ill and only stopped when he was so sick he couldn't stand properly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Sorry, I forgot I needed to sometimes make my sentences more exact and precise so that the intention can't be twisted or misrepresented in some smarmy way. Just for you Sheridan; Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked, with a natural long and undocked tail wagging its tail just the way nature intended. Do you own a docked breed Anne??? What has owning a docked breed got to do with my thoughts on docking? I don't know Anne ask the OP she was the one that requested only breeders or owners. Edited April 18, 2011 by Crisovar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail.... [How do you know?] Are you serious............. we use both arms for nearly all our daily activities as humans, what do dogs use their tails for? how is it even similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Because I wanted this thread to be only the thoughts of docked breed owners or breeders because I did not want outside opinions of people that it has not effected directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail....[How do you know?] Are you serious............. we use both arms for nearly all our daily activities as humans, what do dogs use their tails for? how is it even similar? Balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't have an opinion on whether it is cruel or not but I'd like to know from those that say it isn't cruel/no one else's business etc, what evidence is their that it doesn't cause pain to the dog? Have there been studies where cortisol levels have been measured pre-during-post docking? Heart rates measured?The dog not showing pain isn't evidence IMO, as many dogs are very stoic (egmmy boy continued to walk and play when he was very ill and only stopped when he was so sick he couldn't stand properly). In my experience pups in discomfort or pain, do not settle, they cry and often circle in the box and do not feed, they are obviously distressed. My pups when docked were straight back on the boob with mum and went back to feeding until they fell off the boob asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Balance. Fair enough.. although I have never seen a docked dog that is unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail....[How do you know?] Are you serious............. we use both arms for nearly all our daily activities as humans, what do dogs use their tails for? how is it even similar? Balance. That's interesting because my docked and natural bob corgis, I would say, have better balance than my tailed corgi. He is very clumsy. Also, this is besides the point but when the dogs go swimming, my tailed boy is weighted down incredibly by the heaviness of his wet tail and makes it hard to swim, while the bobs are gliding along in the water. Corgis aren't bred to be swimming so it has nothing to do with why they were docked but are there any water breeds out there that were docked for similar reasons? Poodles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Balance. Fair enough.. although I have never seen a docked dog that is unbalanced. Neither have I...all the docked Aussie terriers I have seen look perfectly balanced to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Balance. Fair enough.. although I have never seen a docked dog that is unbalanced. Watch a dog run at speed. Watch how the tail is used to balance on turns. Poodles have very upright tail carriage.. and quite fine tails. They don't weigh the dog down. A tail is also used to communicate with other dogs. Docking and changes in tail carriage by selective breeding have confused many a dog over time. Edited April 18, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Balance. Fair enough.. although I have never seen a docked dog that is unbalanced. I've seen a docked dobe unable to walk across a wide plank - he was falling off the whole time. Might have nothing to do with a lack of tail though, but it just might. As someone who sometimes suffers from vertigo, I have to work very hard to balance. It slows me down and I can't turn around quickly etc. But for people who see me, they wouldn't know it is an issue, because I'm the one doing all the work to stay upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't have an opinion on whether it is cruel or not but I'd like to know from those that say it isn't cruel/no one else's business etc, what evidence is their that it doesn't cause pain to the dog? Have there been studies where cortisol levels have been measured pre-during-post docking? Heart rates measured?The dog not showing pain isn't evidence IMO, as many dogs are very stoic (egmmy boy continued to walk and play when he was very ill and only stopped when he was so sick he couldn't stand properly). There has been studies where blood cortisol levels were taken and proved that the pups cortisol levels did not alter before, during ,and after banding. These test formed part of the submissions to the New Zealand govt. who upon reviewing the evidence placed before it allowed tail BANDING to be done subject to certain rules( age of pup etc ). Maybe somebody should ask our fearless friends at the AVA. why it wasnt' enough for them. and of course our bleeding heart experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 My docked, tailed and NBT's are all pretty similar in speed and balance. Really there's not much difference at all except that one I have more to brush and the others I have an extra bit to trim. And the tailed one is the brains trust, but the other three aren't dumb by any stretch, just a bit less cunning than he is. I doubt that's related to him having a tail, anymore than his bouncy good nature is. None of them like having their tail, dock, stubs touched....the tail is a nuisance to groom because he doesn't like me touching it, but the stubs and dock are a nuisance to trim for the same reason. I can read their moods equally, and in fact I find their head carriage and ear position to be equally as good to judge their mood as their back end is. I don't care one way or the other. A beautiful dog is a beautiful dog, with our without a tail. But docking has been outlawed for quite a while now so it's time we got on with getting used to tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Balance. Fair enough.. although I have never seen a docked dog that is unbalanced. Watch a dog run at speed. Watch how the tail is used to balance on turns. no ears and no tail, and no problem with balance. can weave in and out over all terrain, snow, ice, duststorm, no problem A tail is also used to communicate with other dogs. Docking and changes in tail carriage by selective breeding have confused many a dog over time. I think changes in mental aptitude by selective breeding have had an impact. I'm sure some breeds are more stupid when it comes to innate dog behaviour / communication than other breeds. Some breeds even fail to recognise when they are in dire straights. Chihuahuas come to mind. Edited April 18, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail....[How do you know?] Are you serious............. we use both arms for nearly all our daily activities as humans, what do dogs use their tails for? how is it even similar? Balance. communication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Missing an arm is NOT like missing a tail....[How do you know?] Are you serious............. we use both arms for nearly all our daily activities as humans, what do dogs use their tails for? how is it even similar? Balance. communication Clearing the coffee table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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