Docking

[nightgrace6]

Do you have the link for that register? Is it available online? I think showing depends on the judge not sure?

[Sheridan]

I have two dogs with docked tails, in breeds traditionally docked. I love the look of the docked tail but if I can't get one with a docked tail, I'll have one without. The wheaten tail isn't that long anyway.

[megan_]

I have a mini schnauzer who isn't docked. She has a nice thick tail (some minis have a curly tail that I don't like). I LOVE her tail - it is so expressive. I can tell how she is feeling very easily. She wags it if I say her name (she's an ex breeing bitch froma puppy farm, so I love seeing her tail wag when I talk to her).

My cousin's mini is docked and it can be hard to tell if his wag is a "happy, relaxed" wag or aroused.

I find it odd that people would choose another breed just because of the tail, but that's just me.

[Gayle.]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off. My dogs are intelligent, funny, affectionate, obedient (sometimes), friendly and awesome to spend time with. Tails or no tails doesn't change that. And I have a mixture of docked, natural bobs and tails. The dogs aren't different because of their tails.

[becks]

I watched the Giant Schnauzer's at the Royal today. I was amazed at the different types of tails on show. There was one that sort of went straight up in the air with a slight bend in it, there were some that curled like a coil and then there were some that just hung straight down. I am wondering which type of tail is the correct one, any ideas?

The UK standard just says in balance with the dog but the FCI calls for a scimitar shape tail carried above the topline (which would be when on the move, not when the dog is relaxed), curled, spitz type tails are not right but these are seen most in the standard schnauzers, while the minis often have them curled over the back like a shih tzu

[corvus]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off.

Me either.

[becks]

I have a mini schnauzer who isn't docked. She has a nice thick tail (some minis have a curly tail that I don't like). I LOVE her tail - it is so expressive. I can tell how she is feeling very easily. She wags it if I say her name (she's an ex breeing bitch froma puppy farm, so I love seeing her tail wag when I talk to her).

My cousin's mini is docked and it can be hard to tell if his wag is a "happy, relaxed" wag or aroused.

I find it odd that people would choose another breed just because of the tail, but that's just me.

I've spent many years with docked schnauzers, I find them very easy to read their mood - the ones with tails are just 'shouting' their mood.

I have one I will be rehoming soon as I can't stand her dopey temperament and her ever wagging tail.

[Gayle.]

I have a mini schnauzer who isn't docked. She has a nice thick tail (some minis have a curly tail that I don't like). I LOVE her tail - it is so expressive. I can tell how she is feeling very easily. She wags it if I say her name (she's an ex breeing bitch froma puppy farm, so I love seeing her tail wag when I talk to her).

My cousin's mini is docked and it can be hard to tell if his wag is a "happy, relaxed" wag or aroused.

I find it odd that people would choose another breed just because of the tail, but that's just me.

I've spent many years with docked schnauzers, I find them very easy to read their mood - the ones with tails are just 'shouting' their mood.

I have one I will be rehoming soon as I can't stand her dopey temperament and her ever wagging tail.

Wouldn't her temperament still be the same if she was docked?

[Remarkabull]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off.

Me either.

Same here. If you love a breed of dog isn't it for reasons other than just appearance? I know that looks are at least part of the appeal but to say that if you couldn't have a dog without it's tail being docked then I just assume that you must not feel very passionately about that breed after all, maybe it is just about looks for some people? I LOVE Dobermann's with or without a tail, however they come it wouldn't stop me from owning one.

[klink]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off.

Me either.

Same here. If you love a breed of dog isn't it for reasons other than just appearance? I know that looks are at least part of the appeal but to say that if you couldn't have a dog without it's tail being docked then I just assume that you must not feel very passionately about that breed after all, maybe it is just about looks for some people? I LOVE Dobermann's with or without a tail, however they come it wouldn't stop me from owning one.

I feel that a lot of you are really missing the main point of these discussions. Everybody has the right of their own option re tails or no tails, your own choice. The problem is that choice has now been taken away from us under the guise of animal cruelty. As stated earlier I would never wish to have my animals endure pain / suffering and i certainly would not wish to take away choice regarding this subject. Unfortunately we all have contributed to this dilemma by firstly believing the piles of misinformation that has done the rounds and still continues to float about ,spread by all the so called experts.

Some breeds like it or not have been historically docked for many many years and those done correctly have had few isolated problems. these breeds at the time were docked at that time for various reasons. Over recent years it has become very trendy with some to have a world changing attitude towards different causes. e.g. Movie stars adopting children from overseas countries , doing work in third world countries, protecting our heritage bulidings, supporting parklands and national forests where you cant do anything in them except watch the trees grow. all the parks have that so much sign pollution no this no that allowed. We all love our dogs' otherwise why would we put ourselves through the garbage we do. If they treated dogs' with the same concern they do the above wouldnt it be nice to protect the various breeds heritage

[Sheridan]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off.

Me either.

Same here. If you love a breed of dog isn't it for reasons other than just appearance? I know that looks are at least part of the appeal but to say that if you couldn't have a dog without it's tail being docked then I just assume that you must not feel very passionately about that breed after all, maybe it is just about looks for some people? I LOVE Dobermann's with or without a tail, however they come it wouldn't stop me from owning one.

I feel that a lot of you are really missing the main point of these discussions. Everybody has the right of their own option re tails or no tails, your own choice. The problem is that choice has now been taken away from us under the guise of animal cruelty. As stated earlier I would never wish to have my animals endure pain / suffering and i certainly would not wish to take away choice regarding this subject. Unfortunately we all have contributed to this dilemma by firstly believing the piles of misinformation that has done the rounds and still continues to float about ,spread by all the so called experts.

Some breeds like it or not have been historically docked for many many years and those done correctly have had few isolated problems. these breeds at the time were docked at that time for various reasons. Over recent years it has become very trendy with some to have a world changing attitude towards different causes. e.g. Movie stars adopting children from overseas countries , doing work in third world countries, protecting our heritage bulidings, supporting parklands and national forests where you cant do anything in them except watch the trees grow. all the parks have that so much sign pollution no this no that allowed. We all love our dogs' otherwise why would we put ourselves through the garbage we do. If they treated dogs' with the same concern they do the above wouldnt it be nice to protect the various breeds heritage

I think you've missed the point of the responses. Getting rid of a dog because it has a tail that wags? Because the tail has something to do with temperament? That doesn't make you scratch your head at all?

[klink]

I can't quite fathom how the dog itself is different just because it's tail isn't cut off.

Me either.

Same here. If you love a breed of dog isn't it for reasons other than just appearance? I know that looks are at least part of the appeal but to say that if you couldn't have a dog without it's tail being docked then I just assume that you must not feel very passionately about that breed after all, maybe it is just about looks for some people? I LOVE Dobermann's with or without a tail, however they come it wouldn't stop me from owning one.

I feel that a lot of you are really missing the main point of these discussions. Everybody has the right of their own option re tails or no tails, your own choice. The problem is that choice has now been taken away from us under the guise of animal cruelty. As stated earlier I would never wish to have my animals endure pain / suffering and i certainly would not wish to take away choice regarding this subject. Unfortunately we all have contributed to this dilemma by firstly believing the piles of misinformation that has done the rounds and still continues to float about ,spread by all the so called experts.

Some breeds like it or not have been historically docked for many many years and those done correctly have had few isolated problems. these breeds at the time were docked at that time for various reasons. Over recent years it has become very trendy with some to have a world changing attitude towards different causes. e.g. Movie stars adopting children from overseas countries , doing work in third world countries, protecting our heritage bulidings, supporting parklands and national forests where you cant do anything in them except watch the trees grow. all the parks have that so much sign pollution no this no that allowed. We all love our dogs' otherwise why would we put ourselves through the garbage we do. If they treated dogs' with the same concern they do the above wouldnt it be nice to protect the various breeds heritage

I think you've missed the point of the responses. Getting rid of a dog because it has a tail that wags? Because the tail has something to do with temperament? That doesn't make you scratch your head at all?

Unfortunately it is impossible to legislate for brains some people have both brains and common sense some have neither

you are always going to get strange ideas with some people anybody who would contemplate doing that is a large part of the overall problem with dog ownership..IMO a permit should be required before you purchase a dog and a 14 day cooling off period . no just walking into a pet shop and walking out with one.

[Sheridan]

Unfortunately it is impossible to legislate for brains some people have both brains and common sense some have neither

you are always going to get strange ideas with some people anybody who would contemplate doing that is a large part of the overall problem with dog ownership..IMO a permit should be required before you purchase a dog and a 14 day cooling off period . no just walking into a pet shop and walking out with one.

Which is a topic for another thread.

[Elina]

wouldnt it be nice to protect the various breeds heritage

Like take voting rights away from colored people and bring slavery back to business

But seriously. If you look at many old photos of dogs, we have changed so much. We haven't really protected many breeds, we have done lots of harm. I don't think leaving tails to dogs cause anymore harm, quite opposite.

[Sheridan]

wouldnt it be nice to protect the various breeds heritage

Like take voting rights away from colored people and bring slavery back to business

But seriously. If you look at many old photos of dogs, we have changed so much. We haven't really protected many breeds, we have done lots of harm. I don't think leaving tails to dogs cause anymore harm, quite opposite.

A breed's heritage is more than its tail.

[Lhok]

I have had working English Springer Spaniels, and if I could have gotten them docked prior to working them I would have. Out of the 3 that we have had over the years for hunting rabbits, foxes and birds (grouse) 2 of them have eventually had to be docked due to tail injury. When the tails were first injured we asked the vet if they would dock the tail after hearing all the problems that can come from trying to set a tail but they wouldn't. Eventually though after 12 weeks of bandaging and setting the tail got a putrid smell and then had to be removed.

Those two dogs have what we call "phantom tail" syndrome and don't sit properly anymore. They also don't like anyone touching their stumps which makes grooming their back ends hard.

--Lhok

[nightgrace6]

Lets try and keep the debating to a minimal (I am sure there are other threads for debating the subject) and please only post if you are a breeder/owner. I am simply gathering opinions from both parties and I am thankful for the replies so far!

[OSoSwift]

I have owned Dobes, they were docked.

I prefer the look of the docked Dobe and have to admit I find myself screwing up my nose at the sight of one with a tail. It was very easy to tell what my dogs moods were. They had extremely good balance and never had any issues doing agility running, playing etc.

I have chosen not to own any more for reasons other than the ban on tail docking. If I wanted another Dobe then I would have one tail or not.

I have seen docking done at vets and it had to be one of the worst docking jobs I have ever witnesses, I have also seen one vet who was extremely good. Personally I would band them at home as they hardly even wake up adn there is far less stress that trips to vets etc.

A friend has a young legally docked Dobe and she has been hassled very badly by a local vet whom she now does not see. The dog was done before she got her and legally. She has said if she ever got another one she would want the tail on as the crap she cops is not worth it, although due to reasons other than tails she will probably not have another either.

[Gayle.]

Well, the dog of mine with the tail is the smartest one of the lot. He's the one who leaps out of the obedience ring to get the treats and brings them to me in case I forgot how clever he is.

He's the one who steals the other dogs bones and walks past me with his eyes firmly shut so that I can't see him or the stolen booty.

He's the one who figured out within a few hours how to show the puppy the escape route from her back yard run.

He's the one who barks at the front door so the other dogs will leave their dinner to see who's there, then he goes and cleans up their bowls.

None of the others are as smart as him and none of them have tails. You can draw your own conclusions there ;-)

[Sheridan]

Well, the dog of mine with the tail is the smartest one of the lot. He's the one who leaps out of the obedience ring to get the treats and brings them to me in case I forgot how clever he is.

He's the one who steals the other dogs bones and walks past me with his eyes firmly shut so that I can't see him or the stolen booty.

He's the one who figured out within a few hours how to show the puppy the escape route from her back yard run.

He's the one who barks at the front door so the other dogs will leave their dinner to see who's there, then he goes and cleans up their bowls.

None of the others are as smart as him and none of them have tails. You can draw your own conclusions there ;-)

I have two docked and they're both as clever as each other, in different ways, and just as dopey in others. My conclusion: the tail does not affect how clever they are or their temperament.