Florise Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Any thread about docking will end in a debate and or argument. Just because you personally dont want others to join in, doesn't mean it will happen.' It is a public forum. This has actually been one of the most civilised threads I have read here on tail docking. Until now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Good animal welfare is not something that should ever be based on volume. Quality of life is far more important aspect. In that case, which breeders of previously docked dogs are now selecting for strong, well furnished tails with good carriage? That should solve the problem of tail damage in the future. Of course! That is the answer! Why didn't we think of that before? We will set up a laboratory, get all the genes represented in the correct quantities, and knock out the recessives. No worries - instant fix! Oh damn, I just had second thoughts .... what I really need is a few centuries to reverse those problem tails. But then again there will be some rogue breeder out there who wont do that and they will just come along and contaminate the laboratory-produced dogs with perfect tails. Bloody backyard breeders again, should be legislated out of existence. Breeders can spend all their lives dedicated to selecting the right genes GayleK. And just 1 inappropriate mating can undo that good work. Souff Edited April 18, 2011 by Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Oi vey, why is it that every single topic that mentions tail docking some clown has to bring up tail breakage or damage. If the issue of having full tails is that they damage them why aren't Dalmatians docked? Why aren't Whippets docked? They have thin tails. Heck I even know a Great Dane who broke her tail several times whacking it on door frames, maybe they should become a docked breed as well? I'm not anti-tail docking, but some of the excuses... sorry... arguments people come up with are plain ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Oi vey, why is it that every single topic that mentions tail docking some clown has to bring up tail breakage or damage.If the issue of having full tails is that they damage them why aren't Dalmatians docked? Why aren't Whippets docked? They have thin tails. Heck I even know a Great Dane who broke her tail several times whacking it on door frames, maybe they should become a docked breed as well? I'm not anti-tail docking, but some of the excuses... sorry... arguments people come up with are plain ridiculous. And you own or breed a docked breed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Souffy if you were looking for an example of what's possible once a procedure is banned, look no further than what's been achieved with the ears of the Boston Terrier in countries where they aren't cropped. You're right, selecting for correct tail carriage and shape won't happen overnight. I'm thankful that the Poodle breed standard (all three sizes) only ever specified PREFERABLY docked and that a description of the tail and carriage was included in the breed standard. Hopefully, breed fanciers of other docked breeds will make their decisions about that and breeds can move forward accordingly. One thing is for sure, there is no going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Thanks for the replies... I have had 3/4 of the people I have seen since I've had my pup call me cruel and disgusting..I am sick to death of it.I too prefer my breed without a tail but wouldn't hesitate to get one with a tail because its still the same breed. I have a Frenchie (naturally no tail) and have also been called cruel etc. People are stupid :p Love the look of rotties/dobes cropped. Just look bizzare to me with a tail. On the first page there are two posts made by people who do not own breeds that are docked (and that is just the first page). I guess they too have no respect or perhaps it was because they didn't say anything against docking that they weren't attacked? :D (actually neither did I.... however...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 My Rotty (at my parents place) has a docked tail. Our rotty before that did also. To me, rotties with tails look so bizarre because I'm just not used to it. How do you like your breed with a tail? Are you still breeding? Do you prefer it with a tail? What do you say to people that think its cruel? Hate it with a passion Didn't breed just exhibited and will never own a traditionally docked breed that is not docked Can't stand the tails, so much so see above. I ask those who think it's cruel have they ever seen it done by someone who knows what they are doing (breeder). OMG, more on page 2. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 We have one tailed Min Pin here and one docked - the docked girl (Mischa) has had hers done way too short, if you don't know her personally you can't read her moods at all! Cleo looks good with a tail, much more expressive and it adds to the prancy Min Pin gate. ;) Having said that, Cleo is shorter and more solid than Mischa, who is taller and more willowy. I find it hard to imagine what she would be like with a tail.I do prefer dogs with their natural tails. We don't have that issue with Aussies, they wiggle their whole butts and in some cases the whole body in several different directions at once. No doubt when a NBT/docked Aussie is happy! :D Haha, that is so true! Especially Holly! She has a massive wiggle. :p I have never owned a traditionally docked breed but my brother has always owned boxers and his last pup came from NZ because he wanted a docked tail - also have friends who bought their boxer from a BYB so they could get the docked tail Damn, more disrespectul people. tsk tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Can we get back on topic please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 well anne you obviously have no respect.. good on ya I can understand why the OP asked for comment only from those who owned/bred docked breeds as otherwise you get hysterical comments from the sort of uninformed people who were largely responsible for the anti-tail-docking legislation. couldnt have said it better myself poodlemum and exactly the reason why Any thread about docking will end in a debate and or argument. Just because you personally dont want others to join in, doesn't mean it will happen.' It is a public forum. This has actually been one of the most civilised threads I have read here on tail docking. Until now... Seriously. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Oi vey, why is it that every single topic that mentions tail docking some clown has to bring up tail breakage or damage.If the issue of having full tails is that they damage them why aren't Dalmatians docked? Why aren't Whippets docked? They have thin tails. Heck I even know a Great Dane who broke her tail several times whacking it on door frames, maybe they should become a docked breed as well? I'm not anti-tail docking, but some of the excuses... sorry... arguments people come up with are plain ridiculous. And you own or breed a docked breed? Yes, I replied back on page 3, I own Poodles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Good animal welfare is not something that should ever be based on volume. Quality of life is far more important aspect. In that case, which breeders of previously docked dogs are now selecting for strong, well furnished tails with good carriage? That should solve the problem of tail damage in the future. :D Of course! That is the answer! Why didn't we think of that before? We will set up a laboratory, get all the genes represented in the correct quantities, and knock out the recessives. No worries - instant fix! Oh damn, I just had second thoughts .... what I really need is a few centuries to reverse those problem tails. But then again there will be some rogue breeder out there who wont do that and they will just come along and contaminate the laboratory-produced dogs with perfect tails. Bloody backyard breeders again, should be legislated out of existence. Breeders can spend all their lives dedicated to selecting the right genes GayleK. And just 1 inappropriate mating can undo that good work. Souff Well, docking was banned in 2004, we're now almost halfway into 2011, that's time enough for a few generations of dogs to be selected for better, stronger tails. But where are we after 7 years of no docking? Still debating whether or not it should be legal. It's not, it never will be again and breeders managed easily enough to flatten faces, shorten legs, lengthen backs....it shouldn't be too hard to toughen up tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Souffy if you were looking for an example of what's possible once a procedure is banned, look no further than what's been achieved with the ears of the Boston Terrier in countries where they aren't cropped. You're right, selecting for correct tail carriage and shape won't happen overnight. I'm thankful that the Poodle breed standard (all three sizes) only ever specified PREFERABLY docked and that a description of the tail and carriage was included in the breed standard. Hopefully, breed fanciers of other docked breeds will make their decisions about that and breeds can move forward accordingly. One thing is for sure, there is no going back. Ah yes, those lovely Bat ears! :D Souff loves Bostons but all the ones I know are terrible snorers. PF, "preferably docked" implies CHOICE. As I said in an earlier post the dog world is HUGELY varied and we must look to the dogs needs and apply what choice we have in the best interest of the dogs. We had choice ripped away from us, for political reasons, and yet the rest of the thinking world did not follow suit. That speaks volumes for me. Souff is going to go and get some sleep. I will have to think more about those Lab plans tomorrow. I might need to look back over those old Black Maltese Terrier posts - it is inspiration like that the dog world needs. Laboratory produced perfect dogs. Yessirree! The hijackers can now have the thread. G'nite :p Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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