OSoSwift Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Fact is the two sides will never agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minxy Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I have had blood splattered all up my walls too by my sons nose bleeds but I am not going to push for the removal at birth of all boys noses. Is that an Aussie Shepherd or a Border Collie in the photo? Do you mean Sparky's signature?? If so, that's a Finnish Lapphund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) I have had blood splattered all up my walls too by my sons nose bleeds but I am not going to push for the removal at birth of all boys noses. Is that an Aussie Shepherd or a Border Collie in the photo? She is a Finnish Lapphund Snap - Minxy ! Edited April 18, 2011 by sparkycat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Jut a question for those of you who are very pro-docking......and this is just being asked out of curiosity.....are any of you actively lobbying, or involved in a group that are actively lobbying to have the law revoked? And another question for those of you who work in veterinary clinics, how often would you have undocked dogs presenting with tail injuries? Cases out of 100 or 1000 maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 There is a lot more to a dog than a tail. Souff Yep, but they come in damn handy for some things. Focus on what tails are doing And just to contrast is a docked corgi doing extremely well at flyball and in my opinion, her turn on the box is a lot better than a lot of the dogs in that video. You're missing the point. This isn't about technique about about the use of the tail BY THE DOG. Are the dogs using their tails to assist their turns or aren't they? We can argue about dogs with better balance till the cows come home but the point I'm trying to make is that the tail gets used to assist balance IF PRESENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Jut a question for those of you who are very pro-docking......and this is just being asked out of curiosity.....are any of you actively lobbying, or involved in a group that are actively lobbying to have the law revoked? It will never be revoked. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is that an Aussie Shepherd or a Border Collie in the photo? She is a Finnish Lapphund Snap - Minxy ! Ah, thank you. I don't run into Finnish Lapphunds every day so please excuse Souff for not doing homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 You're missing the point. This isn't about technique about about the use of the tail BY THE DOG. Are the dogs using their tails to assist their turns or aren't they? We can argue about dogs with better balance till the cows come home but the point I'm trying to make is that the tail gets used to assist balance IF PRESENT. I believe their good balance was coming from their hindquarters, rather than from the tail. It is good to look at this video and the video of the corgi. Good balance features in both videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='GayleK' date='18th Apr 2011 - 06:27 PM' post='5263353' And another question for those of you who work in veterinary clinics, how often would you have undocked dogs presenting with tail injuries? Cases out of 100 or 1000 maybe? Good animal welfare is not something that should ever be based on volume. Quality of life is far more important aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is that an Aussie Shepherd or a Border Collie in the photo? She is a Finnish Lapphund Snap - Minxy ! Ah, thank you. I don't run into Finnish Lapphunds every day so please excuse Souff for not doing homework. You are excused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Good animal welfare is not something that should ever be based on volume. Quality of life is far more important aspect. In that case, which breeders of previously docked dogs are now selecting for strong, well furnished tails with good carriage? That should solve the problem of tail damage in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlemum Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked wagging its tail. My dogs are both docked and funnily enough, their tails still wag. Even a docked rotti's tail wags. Docked Poodles still had enough tail to "express" themselves! I don't have an opinion on whether it is cruel or not but I'd like to know from those that say it isn't cruel/no one else's business etc, what evidence is their that it doesn't cause pain to the dog? Have there been studies where cortisol levels have been measured pre-during-post docking? Heart rates measured?The dog not showing pain isn't evidence IMO, as many dogs are very stoic (egmmy boy continued to walk and play when he was very ill and only stopped when he was so sick he couldn't stand properly). In my experience pups in discomfort or pain, do not settle, they cry and often circle in the box and do not feed, they are obviously distressed. My pups when docked were straight back on the boob with mum and went back to feeding until they fell off the boob asleep. That is also my experience with docked puppies Jut a question for those of you who are very pro-docking......and this is just being asked out of curiosity.....are any of you actively lobbying, or involved in a group that are actively lobbying to have the law revoked? It will never be revoked. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Sadly, I think this is correct :p I would LOVE to see docking made legal again, providing it was done properly by a COMPETENT vet (I stress competent, as the Vet who docked my 1st litter was anything but). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Sorry, I forgot I needed to sometimes make my sentences more exact and precise so that the intention can't be twisted or misrepresented in some smarmy way. Just for you Sheridan; Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked, with a natural long and undocked tail wagging its tail just the way nature intended. Do you own a docked breed Anne??? What has owning a docked breed got to do with my thoughts on docking? I don't know Anne ask the OP she was the one that requested only breeders or owners. Is that the only argument you come up with. Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 im sorry Anne but i asked for owners/breeders because i only wanted opinions of people it directly impacts and i believe this is what crisovar is referring too. i can see ive sparked yet another debate so i will be leaving this thread, thanks for all the answers and opinions guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Any thread about docking will end in a debate and or argument. Just because you personally dont want others to join in, doesn't mean it will happen.' It is a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoll Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked wagging its tail. My dogs are both docked and funnily enough, their tails still wag. Even a docked rotti's tail wags. Docked Poodles still had enough tail to "express" themselves! I don't have an opinion on whether it is cruel or not but I'd like to know from those that say it isn't cruel/no one else's business etc, what evidence is their that it doesn't cause pain to the dog? Have there been studies where cortisol levels have been measured pre-during-post docking? Heart rates measured?The dog not showing pain isn't evidence IMO, as many dogs are very stoic (egmmy boy continued to walk and play when he was very ill and only stopped when he was so sick he couldn't stand properly). In my experience pups in discomfort or pain, do not settle, they cry and often circle in the box and do not feed, they are obviously distressed. My pups when docked were straight back on the boob with mum and went back to feeding until they fell off the boob asleep. That is also my experience with docked puppies Jut a question for those of you who are very pro-docking......and this is just being asked out of curiosity.....are any of you actively lobbying, or involved in a group that are actively lobbying to have the law revoked? It will never be revoked. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Sadly, I think this is correct I would LOVE to see docking made legal again, providing it was done properly by a COMPETENT vet (I stress competent, as the Vet who docked my 1st litter was anything but). :p Yes agree with legal tail docking totally, providing it is done correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 well anne you obviously have no respect.. good on ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlemum Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I can understand why the OP asked for comment only from those who owned/bred docked breeds as otherwise you get hysterical comments from the sort of uninformed people who were largely responsible for the anti-tail-docking legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 couldnt have said it better myself poodlemum and exactly the reason why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Sorry, I forgot I needed to sometimes make my sentences more exact and precise so that the intention can't be twisted or misrepresented in some smarmy way. Just for you Sheridan; Nothing pleases me as much as seeing a dog of a breed that had previously been docked, with a natural long and undocked tail wagging its tail just the way nature intended. I do not think this word means what you think it means ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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