Elina Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Elina, I have some questions for you: I just told what replys I got from a country where has longer history of banning docking. Sorry, no needs to attack to me. We just have already now new generation of dog owners who are shaken that docking has been approved before. It sounds so absurd nowdays for many people. Sorry, I didn't realise this was such a sensitive topic that I wasn't allowed to anwer this at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Elina, I have some questions for you: I just told what replys I got from a country where has longer history of banning docking. Sorry, no needs to attack to me. We just have already now new generation of dog owners who are shaken that docking has been approved before. It sounds so absurd nowdays for many people. Sorry, I didn't realise this was such a sensitive topic that I wasn't allowed to anwer this at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emery Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 i have always owned docked dogs, boxers, then rottis, and whilst i love a docked tial i also am a registered breeder of rottweilers and wouldn't not own them due to the tail issue, I could go down the bob tail line but they are not what i like in hte breed i have learnt to adapt to rules that have changed hense why i can't see my girls without their tails but can't see my boy with his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Elina, I have some questions for you: I just told what replys I got from a country where has longer history of banning docking. Sorry, no needs to attack to me. We just have already now new generation of dog owners who are shaken that docking has been approved before. It sounds so absurd nowdays for many people. Sorry, I didn't realise this was such a sensitive topic that I wasn't allowed to anwer this at all... Elina, I am not attacking. This is a very sensitive topic and many people (who know their dog breeds far better than politicians) are still angry at what happened here in Australia. You have not answered my questions. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 You have not answered my questions.Souff My answers to your questions are very irrelevant about the matter that I just wanted to tell that maybe long tails doesn't feel so bad anymore after 15 years. Maybe that bring a little comfort to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 This was so interesting topic that I had to make an inquiry about docking in Finnish dog forum. How has attitudes changed after 15 years (docking was banned in 1996). I remember there was lots of all kinds of discussion after banning. I have got over 60 replys and only one said that she would like to go back for docking. Many told that they still think that especially dopes looks better without tail but they still think docking is wrong. Almost all mentioned that it feels now ridiculous that tails has been ever docked from pet dogs. What an arrogance to cut away one vital part of the body. Maybe there are more similar thoughts in Australia after 10 years. Most european breeders wish they can still dock but to be able show in Europe & at certain shows dogs docked can not be entered . I belong on many euro lists in breeds traditionally docked all would prefer to go back but it is the way it Some Europeans have issues as some working breeds can be docked so they dislike the double standard but as it will never change they just continue along with there tails 60 replys isn't many for europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 You have not answered my questions.Souff My answers to your questions are very irrelevant about the matter that I just wanted to tell that maybe long tails doesn't feel so bad anymore after 15 years. Maybe that bring a little comfort to someone. It has been 11 years for some parts of Australia and not a lot has changed. My questions are very relevent to the subject and I would like to read your answers. Showdog is correct. 60 replies is a very small number of replies. There are a lot of people in Europe and the United Kingdom who are angry at how these laws were foisted on them and their dogs. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Elina, I have some questions for you:1. Have you ever lived in the Australian countryside with dogs that like to go into holes in the ground? 2. Do you own or breed a docked breed? (one of the conditions for commenting in this thread) 3. Have you ever owned a Welsh Corgi (Pembroke) 4. Have you ever owned a dog that has broken its tail as an adult, and you had to get the breaks to heal, without success, and then after months of unsuccessful treatment, you had to get the tail amputated on the adult dog? If so, can you tell me what the temperament of the dog was like during the months of treatment, and what the dog's temperament was like after the amputation? 1. No. 2. I have had giant schnauzer. 3. No, but how on earth is this relevant?! 4. No, but i have owned dogs who have broke their legs while stepping to something sharp. That has been painful for a dog and needed many weeks care. Maybe we should cut one leg as well while docking tails. This would diminish the risk that one leg will get hurt. Leg is not VITAL (sorry about my previous mistake, it's this language barrier) part for dog either. Just very crucial for balance just like tail. The lifestyle of dogs in Finland and other European countries is markedly different to dogs in Australia, and is due to the differences in climate and lifestyle. Australian dogs spend a far greater amount of time OUTDOORS and many of them are very busy dogs that have no regard to the damage that they can do to tails. Dogs in Europe spend a far greater time safely indoors in homes, and/or safely in barns, than their Australian counterparts. Tail damage is cruel. Amputation of a broken tail is cruel. Tail damage is preventable. We can prevent cruelty and if we know our dogs are at risk, then there is a case that says we have an obligation to prevent cruelty. Souff It is quite impossible to discuss about topic with someone, who is so fanatic of something. I haven't said that I think docking tails is cruel. I have just said that attitudes in my country has changed after 15 years. If Australian countryside is so dangerous for dogs tails, why kelpies and dingos have tails? And I have understood that most people live in cities nowadays? We have lots of hunting dogs in Finland. I have heard of a few GSP's has had tail damages while running in a thick forrest during hunting. I could approve docking for that breed. Do you hunt with dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Leg is not VITAL (sorry about my previous mistake, it's this language barrier) part for dog either. Just very crucial for balance just like tail. Hi Elina , tails are not actually crucial for balance, otherwise all those docked doggies would be constantly falling over, and they just don't. To OP, I am getting used to tails, but still love the look of the docked dogs I see out there. Not many left now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Leg is not VITAL (sorry about my previous mistake, it's this language barrier) part for dog either. Just very crucial for balance just like tail. Hi Elina , tails are not actually crucial for balance, otherwise all those docked doggies would be constantly falling over, and they just don't. To OP, I am getting used to tails, but still love the look of the docked dogs I see out there. Not many left now though. Damn, it's really hard to express myself with foreign language. But not are four legs crucial either. I have seen many dogs walking and running very well with three legs. Anyhow, what i try to say, is that there is a reason why (most) dogs born with tails. And reasons why most in this thread are saying they don't like tails are not because they are afraid the tail will get hurt, it's because it doesn't look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Leg is not VITAL (sorry about my previous mistake, it's this language barrier) part for dog either. Just very crucial for balance just like tail. Hi Elina , tails are not actually crucial for balance, otherwise all those docked doggies would be constantly falling over, and they just don't. To OP, I am getting used to tails, but still love the look of the docked dogs I see out there. Not many left now though. Damn, it's really hard to express myself with foreign language. But not are four legs crucial either. I have seen many dogs walking and running very well with three legs. Anyhow, what i try to say, is that there is a reason why (most) dogs born with tails. And reasons why most in this thread are saying they don't like tails are not because they are afraid the tail will get hurt, it's because it doesn't look good. Elina, taildocking was finally banned in this country on the basis of lies and fierce lobbying by all the worlds saviours, all those people who in most cases wanted to feel uplifted by having a "cause " to pursue. Tail docking or tail banding is not cruel. this has been proven with out doubt, whether people like yourself believe it or not, when done at the correct time and by banding, not cutting. Medical evidence is available to prove this statement ask the nz. government for one. Myself like many australians are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by ill informed politicans who are only interested in getting re elected with the help of the fringe dwellers of society who overall contribute very little meaningful things to our life style I by no means advocate any thing that would hurt any of my animals, tail banding does not. The banding methods used for tails is still being used on a daily basis in most hospitals world wide ,for extra fingers, toes etc check it out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Elina, taildocking was finally banned in this country on the basis of lies and fierce lobbying by all the worlds saviours, all those people who in most cases wanted to feel uplifted by having a "cause " to pursue. Tail docking or tail banding is not cruel. this has been proven with out doubt, whether people like yourself believe it or not, when done at the correct time and by banding, not cutting. Medical evidence is available to prove this statement ask the nz. government for one.Myself like many australians are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by ill informed politicans who are only interested in getting re elected with the help of the fringe dwellers of society who overall contribute very little meaningful things to our life style I by no means advocate any thing that would hurt any of my animals, tail banding does not. The banding methods used for tails is still being used on a daily basis in most hospitals world wide ,for extra fingers, toes etc check it out . Hi, thanks for clearing out these facts. I haven't said even once that tail docking is cruel. Haven't I? All i have said is that there is a reason why dogs are meant to have tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I've had 3 different docked breeds, currently have docked giant schnauzers and a mix of docked and long tails on the mini schnauzers. given the choice I would go back to docking, I have tried living with the breed and their tails and I just don't like them the same. I am giving serious thought at the moment about whether to stay with minis at all, import from abroad (which would mean it would be at least 10 months old before being able to enter UK) or find a new breed but the NBT breeds don't have the other characteristics I like in dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Leg is not VITAL (sorry about my previous mistake, it's this language barrier) part for dog either. Just very crucial for balance just like tail. Hi Elina , tails are not actually crucial for balance, otherwise all those docked doggies would be constantly falling over, and they just don't. To OP, I am getting used to tails, but still love the look of the docked dogs I see out there. Not many left now though. Damn, it's really hard to express myself with foreign language. But not are four legs crucial either. I have seen many dogs walking and running very well with three legs. Anyhow, what i try to say, is that there is a reason why (most) dogs born with tails. And reasons why most in this thread are saying they don't like tails are not because they are afraid the tail will get hurt, it's because it doesn't look good. Elina, taildocking was finally banned in this country on the basis of lies and fierce lobbying by all the worlds saviours, all those people who in most cases wanted to feel uplifted by having a "cause " to pursue. Tail docking or tail banding is not cruel. this has been proven with out doubt, whether people like yourself believe it or not, when done at the correct time and by banding, not cutting. Medical evidence is available to prove this statement ask the nz. government for one. Myself like many australians are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by ill informed politicans who are only interested in getting re elected with the help of the fringe dwellers of society who overall contribute very little meaningful things to our life style I by no means advocate any thing that would hurt any of my animals, tail banding does not. The banding methods used for tails is still being used on a daily basis in most hospitals world wide ,for extra fingers, toes etc check it out . Sorry I disagree - in my experience the general public was uncomfortable about tail docking long before the ban came in. In the 60's and 70's a close family who was a vet refused to dock. Yesterday I watched the most beautiful boxer complete with tail bounce around - it was pure elegance and balance - my friend said my mouth dropped open and I drooled and I am not normally a boxer type person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Not once in my time with docked breeds (since 1970) did I ever have one person question docking or request a tail be left on their pup. I do not actually recall any breeder that I know being requested to leave a tail either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 When I got my first puppy as a teenager, it was a Pembroke Corgi. Mum had a tail and we were like "Oh... isn't that lovely? It would have been nice if my puppy had a tail." That was 10 years before the tail docking legislation was on the radar, and we certainly were 'the general public' at that point. People did ask me why I got my dog's tail docked before the legislation came in and I answered I didn't have the choice. It was docked before I met the puppies. I have a breed now with a natural bob as well as flag tail and full tail and mine has a full tail. I don't really mind. I think they look cute with no tails and long tails. Not a huge fan of the flag, but don't see many of those. I like the full tails on traditionally docked breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Elina, taildocking was finally banned in this country on the basis of lies and fierce lobbying by all the worlds saviours, all those people who in most cases wanted to feel uplifted by having a "cause " to pursue. Tail docking or tail banding is not cruel. this has been proven with out doubt, whether people like yourself believe it or not, when done at the correct time and by banding, not cutting. Medical evidence is available to prove this statement ask the nz. government for one.Myself like many australians are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by ill informed politicans who are only interested in getting re elected with the help of the fringe dwellers of society who overall contribute very little meaningful things to our life style I by no means advocate any thing that would hurt any of my animals, tail banding does not. The banding methods used for tails is still being used on a daily basis in most hospitals world wide ,for extra fingers, toes etc check it out . Actually I'd really like some links to this proof of which you speak, my understanding is that the most recent research on the topic suggets that nerve development at that stage may or may not be enough to convey the pain message to the brain, and the brain may or may not be at the developmental stage to perceive and express that pain. As I understand it there was also some question as to whether the feedback systems were developed enough to prevent the pain message from continuing to be sent. So unless you are aware of some more recent research I was under the impression that the jury is still out as far as the perception and expression of pain in newborn animals during tail docking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Can I ask, what is the 'humane' way of docking 3 day old pups? Not sarcastic, its a genuine question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Banding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Banding. I did work experience at a vet when I was in high school, there was some 3 day old pups in to be docked and have their dew claws removed...the vet used side cutters do do it please tell me this isnt a common practice...I had to hold those poor pups, after that there is no way anyone can convince me it doesnt hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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