It Just Makes Me So Mad

[carrie]

Saw a pair of Dobes in a window box tonight, and they are getting White Sheps in this week apparently...i didn't even want to look at the prices

I walked past that pet shop last night on the way to the bank (well I'm assuming I did, I'd be surprised if two Bris pet stores had dobermans and were expecting white shepherds!) I was shocked to see the beautiful dobermans, I've never before seen dobs in a pet store window!

[bink]

I'm glad I read this!

I am looking for a bc pup and I have to say that there are many registered breeders asking for $1300+ for their pups and then practically biting my head off when I want to know the cost...

My last dog Kodi (RIP) was a pet shop GR 11 years ago, long before I knew about such things as DOL.....I only really found out about this kind of thing recently when I started researching BCs.

I want to know why breeders put all the information under the sun re: litters, lines etc. but not prices. Often it’s the only piece of information missing and I feel like it’s deliberate.

What is so wrong with me flicking a quick email to find out how much the pups are? When I already know so much about them from their comprehensive websites….

I know a lot of people say that price shouldn’t be a deciding factor, but in the same token I don’t want to be ripped off. Nor do I want a pet shop or dodgy pup, it is a factor for me, It gives me an idea of what you feel the pups are worth. I have a limit, that's my choice I think.

As I’m only just starting my search, I think it’s a reasonable question. I am willing to wait for the right puppy, but feel like I am going for a bank loan or a Government job!!

I’m torn because I want a healthy pup that someone has taken care and consideration when breeding and helping me select, but I am disheartened when people take a stab at me when I want to know how much they are charging!

Now I know that it's not unreasonable to pay $900 - $1000, I think I will keep going past the dogs with such hefty price tags as I know there are great breeders out there who are doing the right thing for all:)

rant over....sorry for the hijack! Hopefully this pup has a long and healthy life:)

[shortstep]

Between $900-$1,000.

Anyone who pays more than that for a Border Collie needs their head read, regardless of colour!

Drives me absolutely insane

Almost as insane as calling red and white, wheaten, caramel etc etc etc! LOL

I nearly fell off the couch in shock when she told me that price.

It makes me sad and mad at the same time.

It is criminal! A border collie sold for $1800!!

Maybe to solve the problem of 'some' breeders getting more $$ for their border collie pups than the 'ethical' border collie breeders get,

the border collie club could ask the ANKC to make some price controls on border collies,

each state set their won max price.

Only breeders agreeing to sell their dogs at the 'ethical' controlled price can register their pups with ANKC.

Opps forgot to say, very sad that a border collie pups (or any pup) was in a pet shop.

Edited April 14, 2011 by shortstep

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Lately and much to my surprise, what appear to be purebred Border Collie puppies have been turning up in Sydney pounds. Perhaps they have been purchased from petshops and are being dumped although some have appeared with their mothers.

PAWS has recently taken a surrendered 6 month old Pomeranian puppy, originally from a petshop and purchased by students at a nearby Uni. Rehomed 3 times more and finally the last person rang the vet to get the puppy put to sleep. Thankfully the vet rang PAWS.

This is only one of many dumped ex petshop puppies that we have had, each with a similar story. It has to stop.

[GoldenGirl85]

This is a little bit OT, but also a little bit related...

Id love for my next dog to be a blue merle BC (maybe, if the breed will suit me when the time comes, it wont be for a long time yet) anyway I want the dog to do dog sports with, so ultimately lines will play the top factor, but Ive fallen in love with the blue merle colour....so would it be totally wrong for me to approach a breeder for a specific colour? even if I am willing to wait? or would I be labeled as a buyer who just wants good looks? I mean heck Ill probably never get one, but a girl cant help but dream right?

I know to stay away from 'colour breeders' but does BM come up regularly in litters in general? or is it a difficult colour to breed for? also does it seem to pop up more in show or working lines?

[shortstep]

This is a little bit OT, but also a little bit related...

Id love for my next dog to be a blue merle BC (maybe, if the breed will suit me when the time comes, it wont be for a long time yet) anyway I want the dog to do dog sports with, so ultimately lines will play the top factor, but Ive fallen in love with the blue merle colour....so would it be totally wrong for me to approach a breeder for a specific colour? even if I am willing to wait? or would I be labeled as a buyer who just wants good looks? I mean heck Ill probably never get one, but a girl cant help but dream right?

I know to stay away from 'colour breeders' but does BM come up regularly in litters in general? or is it a difficult colour to breed for? also does it seem to pop up more in show or working lines?

Merle never just pops up, one parent has to be a merle to get a merle pup.

My adivise, if you want a dog to do with sports with, look for breeders who have lots of dogs out there doing well in sports. Then go to the sports trials you are interested in and find dogs you just love and then find out who bred them. Also go to the sport trials to look at dogs bred by breeders you are considering. Then once yu fall in love with a line of dogs, contact the breeder and make your sport interest known. Personally I would just look for the breeder who is breeding the type of dog you love and just take it from there adnnot worry too much about the colour. In dog sports, any colour dog is beautiful when it excells at the sport and it is your dog!

Edited April 14, 2011 by shortstep

[benshiva]

This is a little bit OT, but also a little bit related...

Id love for my next dog to be a blue merle BC (maybe, if the breed will suit me when the time comes, it wont be for a long time yet) anyway I want the dog to do dog sports with, so ultimately lines will play the top factor, but Ive fallen in love with the blue merle colour....so would it be totally wrong for me to approach a breeder for a specific colour? even if I am willing to wait? or would I be labeled as a buyer who just wants good looks? I mean heck Ill probably never get one, but a girl cant help but dream right?

I know to stay away from 'colour breeders' but does BM come up regularly in litters in general? or is it a difficult colour to breed for? also does it seem to pop up more in show or working lines?

There are some breeders now breeding blue merle. However, the same applies as far as I'm concerned. I would NOT be paying through the nose for a blue merle Border Collie.

[benshiva]

I'm glad I read this!

I am looking for a bc pup and I have to say that there are many registered breeders asking for $1300+ for their pups and then practically biting my head off when I want to know the cost...

My last dog Kodi (RIP) was a pet shop GR 11 years ago, long before I knew about such things as DOL.....I only really found out about this kind of thing recently when I started researching BCs.

I want to know why breeders put all the information under the sun re: litters, lines etc. but not prices. Often it’s the only piece of information missing and I feel like it’s deliberate.

What is so wrong with me flicking a quick email to find out how much the pups are? When I already know so much about them from their comprehensive websites….

I know a lot of people say that price shouldn’t be a deciding factor, but in the same token I don’t want to be ripped off. Nor do I want a pet shop or dodgy pup, it is a factor for me, It gives me an idea of what you feel the pups are worth. I have a limit, that's my choice I think.

As I’m only just starting my search, I think it’s a reasonable question. I am willing to wait for the right puppy, but feel like I am going for a bank loan or a Government job!!

I’m torn because I want a healthy pup that someone has taken care and consideration when breeding and helping me select, but I am disheartened when people take a stab at me when I want to know how much they are charging!

Now I know that it's not unreasonable to pay $900 - $1000, I think I will keep going past the dogs with such hefty price tags as I know there are great breeders out there who are doing the right thing for all:)

rant over....sorry for the hijack! Hopefully this pup has a long and healthy life:)

Hi Bink. I'm one of those breeders who does not advertise price on my website. I find it encourages potential buyers to email me and gives me an opportunity to talk to them about my dogs, price included. For the record, I charge $950 for a puppy.

I find it sad that some would be unhappy at you asking the price of a puppy. Of course it matters, it matters a great deal.

I hope you find that perfect dog for you.

[Souff]

I want to know why breeders put all the information under the sun re: litters, lines etc. but not prices. Often it’s the only piece of information missing and I feel like it’s deliberate.

It can be quite deliberate to leave out something like price.

Some breeders want to know that price is not your main focus.

I used to know a breeder who would get you over for a cuppa and a play with the pups and then ask you how much you expected to pay.

He always got good prices ...... and dogs were matched with people.

In my book that is best practice.

Some buyers who were told to go elsewhere

Souff

[bink]

Thanks benshiva, I was cruising your website as you wrote that, you have some absolutely gorgeous dogs!!

[bink]

I want to know why breeders put all the information under the sun re: litters, lines etc. but not prices. Often it’s the only piece of information missing and I feel like it’s deliberate.

I used to know a breeder who would get you over for a cuppa and a play with the pups and then ask you how much you expected to pay.

He always got good prices ...... and dogs were matched with people.

In my book that is best practice.

Some buyers who were told to go elsewhere

Souff

Im not sure how to quote hopefully this works...

So the people with more cash to splash get the pup? Hardly fair when I might have a fantastic home for a pup but am not willing to pay as much, if I don't think it's fair.

It's important to me, Just as a breeder wants to make sure their dogs go to good homes, I also want to know that they are not charging $600 above everyone else before I spend time meeting them...

[Souff]

So the people with more cash to splash get the pup? Hardly fair when I might have a fantastic home for a pup but am not willing to pay as much, if I don't think it's fair.

No, not necessarily.

The aim was to make sure that people went home with dog that was right for them. He could have got a lot more for some pups but often less because the pup was going to long term owners who knew what they were doing.

He had more friends than you could poke a stick at. Boarded your dog when you went on holidays. Helped people learn about showing and breeding if that was what they wanted to do.

But if he had a pup in the litter that he knew was worth top dollar, he would make sure that he got top dollar for the pup AND still make sure that it went to the right owner ... eventually. He often had a few months enjoying the pup first.

Souff

[GoldenGirl85]

Merle never just pops up, one parent has to be a merle to get a merle pup.

My adivise, if you want a dog to do with sports with, look for breeders who have lots of dogs out there doing well in sports. Then go to the sports trials you are interested in and find dogs you just love and then find out who bred them. Also go to the sport trials to look at dogs bred by breeders you are considering. Then once yu fall in love with a line of dogs, contact the breeder and make your sport interest known. Personally I would just look for the breeder who is breeding the type of dog you love and just take it from there adnnot worry too much about the colour. In dog sports, any colour dog is beautiful when it excells at the sport and it is your dog!

There are some breeders now breeding blue merle. However, the same applies as far as I'm concerned. I would NOT be paying through the nose for a blue merle Border Collie.

Thanks for the info guys, as I said I wont be after another dog for a LONG time yet, but its good to know all the same. I do know Ill probably never get the dog I really want, the main factor will be whether or not the dog will suit me, who knows what I might be after by that time

[shortstep]

I do know Ill probably never get the dog I really want,

Why do you say that?

[Leelaa17]

I am disgusted that the poor little pup could have parvo and still get sold for $1800???? Thats absolutely ridiculous. And what kind of conditions are in that shop where puppies get parvo?!?!?!?

When my sister and her OH went looking for dogs - they desperately wanted a beagle. they loved the breed, but when they went to a breeder they were pretty much told that a beagle wasn't the right dog for them and they werent allowed to buy one.

They werent upset or anything and theyh researched more into it and now have two very old cavs.

I think they did the right thing by going and researching about the breed before they did anything.

[Sheridan]

Had parvo in the pet shop but is over it now ...

Oh. Good. Grief.

[Leelaa17]

Had parvo in the pet shop but is over it now ...

Oh. Good. Grief.

x2!!!!!!!!

[Pretty Miss Emma]

This is sort of 1/2 OT.

Is it worth lobbying the state kennel associations and ANKC to have some sort of publicity/advetising about using registered breeders. Not an anti-pet sops campaign (although I know we'd all love that!!), but something that is big and out there. I know that there is information available, but it is often not in people's faces, whereas puppies in pet shop windows are. As has been said in so many threads here, the lay-person on the street often just doesn't know where to look, what to ask or why. So if the dog community is concerned about that then would it make sense to actively try to change that. Yes it would cost a lot of money, but in the long term it probably might be worth it. I would suggest that most people want to do the right thing but often don't know what that is (again a comment made by so many people here, then they come here and learn about it!).

I don't know, it's an issue that tends to run around in circles and it seems that most of the people concerned do what they can (ie OP and everyone else here who gives their friends/potential puppy owners information) but the message just isn't getting far enough.

[shortstep]

This is sort of 1/2 OT.

Is it worth lobbying the state kennel associations and ANKC to have some sort of publicity/advetising about using registered breeders. Not an anti-pet sops campaign (although I know we'd all love that!!), but something that is big and out there. I know that there is information available, but it is often not in people's faces, whereas puppies in pet shop windows are. As has been said in so many threads here, the lay-person on the street often just doesn't know where to look, what to ask or why. So if the dog community is concerned about that then would it make sense to actively try to change that. Yes it would cost a lot of money, but in the long term it probably might be worth it. I would suggest that most people want to do the right thing but often don't know what that is (again a comment made by so many people here, then they come here and learn about it!).

I don't know, it's an issue that tends to run around in circles and it seems that most of the people concerned do what they can (ie OP and everyone else here who gives their friends/potential puppy owners information) but the message just isn't getting far enough.

I do not think there is much motivation to do this. You need to look at the bigger pciture.

There are not near enough ANKC breeders or dogs or pups to meet the pet market needs, they would be short by what a couple of 100,000 puppies a year?

There is no desire for 'ethical' breeders to bred for the pet market, they only breed to get a pup form them selves and to imporve the breed.

There is no desire and in fact a lot of resistence, to any one to breed for any other reason than to breed for their next show dog and to better the breed.

Also there is no desire for most breeders to place any of the left over pups from the litter with breeding rights.

There is little encouragement for new breeders to get started unless the want to show dogs.

I do not see any reason to change all this really, it has been this way for a very long time and has served it's purpose very well.

The future of dog breeding for the pet public and those who want a dog for reason other showing, I believe, is already now mostly outside of the show culture and will continue to move in that direction. Over the next 20 years I think the current trends will continute with the declining numbers of show breeders and increasing numbers of breeders working towards other goals in their breeding programs. I think the quality of these other breeding programs will reach new heights in the coming years, incorporating the research and support of the Unis and ideas comeing from different points of view and will see increasing support for them from the more moderate animal welfare groups.

However you will find interest in promoting dog shows and attempting to draw people into participating, you will also find that certain shows have been designed to welcome the public for view the dogs on show, so that might be of interest?

Edited April 15, 2011 by shortstep

[freundhund]

Bink

I also don't advertise the price of my puppies on my website. I have a price in my mind that I set. It has been known to change when people arrive ie I am not happy with people and they don't understand the remark I an not prepared to sell you a puppy.

I have also been known to drop the price of my puppy IF the buyer looks like a stunning home, is a repeat home, ie if they have had their first dog from me. ier the current dog is aged.

So when you ring me up or email me and your first question is to do with price, I am not interested in you as a customer/buyer/prospective friend!!!!!!! I want you to meet me, meet my dogs, talk to me so that I know what you are looking, I have turned people down, I have sent people to friends because my puppies were not exactly what they were looking for.