Repricing Puppies

[twodoggies2001]

There is a thread on the breeders community on the topic of repricing puppies. Because I am unable to post in that community I am interested to know as to how the breeders come to prices for their pups. It is obvious to me that when the breeder is successful with his/her bloodlines in the show ring a higher price can and should be asked, but what about breeders who don't show and ask at times, more than the known and successful exhibitors? I see this often in my own selected breed and at times see some of the same prefixes advertised well before the puppies are due even though some of them are non exhibitors.

[Danois]

From the Rules:

No cross posting discussions from 'Breeders Community' Forum

The 'Breeders Community' forum is a semi-restricted forum and breeders need to apply to gain full access. If you see a discussion in the Breeder Community Forum, do not cross post a topic being discussed into another forum so that you can add your 2 cents worth. Breeders start topics in the Breeder Community forum for a reason .... they only want input from other breeders. This rule is a trade-off for not having the Breeder Forum totally private.

[megan_]

The OP isn't giving their view though - they're asking a question to get feedback.

To the OP - I'm pretty sure you can post your question (and respond to answers that relate to your post) in the Breeders section. You just can't post responses to other people's posts.

[JulesP]

The original question isn't actually a cross-post as twodoggies2001 isn't asking about repricing puppies. I am assuming that post in BC made them wonder about pricing in general.

When I had a litter of pups I simply charged what the going rate was for my breed. There wasn't much variation in price then.

A breeder can charge whatever they like for a puppy and it is up to the buyer to decide if they want to pay.

[SparkyTansy]

same as JulesP - I am charging what the general going rate is for puppies of my breed. I have so far not had anyone say much about the price at all... but one person did ask if the price was negotiable, to which my answer was no - all puppies get the same amount of love, attention, time and all the same treatments, food etc, and therefore they all cost the same. They were happy with that answer.

[Jumabaar]

I look at what other people are selling their pups for and then look at my expenses.

I spent money on a stud fees, c- section, have had one pup get sick and so had additional vet fees, food wormers and they will be vaccinated. They will also have had some crate training and are already almost toilet trained at 5 weeks of age.

I DO get comments about the price of my dogs (compared to how cheap some, non registered ones are) but I just explain that I know the temperaments of all the dogs behind these dogs, and that they have lived in my house and have already begun training. They are cheap compared to how many hours I have put into raising them!!

I was hoping to be a little ahead with this litter so I could look at importing some semen for a litter in the future. (probably not possible with the pup needing vet care now) These pups are not being sold for any more than the going rate because they will cover the expenses. I would consider a slight increase if I knew my expenses were going to far out weigh the income (probably $50) because I really can't afford to breed at a major loss each time- I can and do accept small losses. I would prefer to do that, and ensure that I do not skimp on any of the essentials, and wait for the right owners, than stick with the going rate.

[Rebanne]

I charge roughly the cost of the stud fee for each puppy. My first, and so far only litter, I needed to have at least 3 pups to sell to cover the costs, 4 would have been better. I only had one to sell so was down a few thousands, only 2 pups born, I kept one. Expensive pet he is I start getting the word out and about asap. While the breed is reasonably popular as adults, lots of people that might prefer a pup don't know where or how to get one or even that they are ever available. I have helped people get race bred pups in the past. I breed without a waiting list full of people cause I would never breed otherwise, but advertise ( and vet the people ) heavily.

[Fatsofatsoman]

So is it possible for a breeder to be soley motivated by money and not be classed a byb or puppy farm?

If in their process they know that providing healthy, well bread pups with good tempraments will increase his profit?

They don't pump out pups in quantity but do breed at safe/healthy levels for the mothers. So really they're in it to make money but it isn't their main source of income (I can't see how it could be the main source and then have them comply with having healthy dogs).

Therefore the pups produced are very good quality, don't harm the breed but they make money with no interest in showing any of their dogs.

Are these people in existence or for a breeder to be reputable do they need to be in it for the love of the dogs and showing and not motivated by money?

Just interested to know as a buyer (I would never go byb) - but what if a breeder I go to has no interest in showing dogs but does have an interest in producing good pups and making money - should you automatically swerve these?

[twodoggies2001]

Some great answers there and breeding is a risky 'business' (pardon the pun) but what about the very high priced puppies offered when there is no show history behind them? In fairness, a lot of puppy buyers would have no idea of confirmation and what is expected of a show quality puppy , and I do understand these are puppies are not normally offered as pets, but they still pay the high prices asked even for pet quality. Would it be fair to summise that there are some registered breeders out there in it for the money just as fatsofatsoman asked?

[Bjelkier]

I have a litter planned for the end of the year and the price of the pups will be the price of the stud fee.

Others have told me to up the price becuase the stud is imported and his lines are lovely but he is unproven so I would not be comfortable charging more for an unknown quantity.

That being said the price is pretty much what most other breeders are selling their pups for at the moment too.

[Baileys mum]

same as JulesP - I am charging what the general going rate is for puppies of my breed. I have so far not had anyone say much about the price at all... but one person did ask if the price was negotiable, to which my answer was no - all puppies get the same amount of love, attention, time and all the same treatments, food etc, and therefore they all cost the same. They were happy with that answer.

x2..I have also been asked if my price was negotiable & pretty much said the same thing & they where also happy with the answer.

I have also been asked if I would sell them a puppy without papers at a lower price..which I have also said no too, as all my puppies are registered & go with papers & I do not charge different prices for limited or main papers either.

[ish]

Some great answers there and breeding is a risky 'business' (pardon the pun) but what about the very high priced puppies offered when there is no show history behind them? In fairness, a lot of puppy buyers would have no idea of confirmation and what is expected of a show quality puppy , and I do understand these are puppies are not normally offered as pets, but they still pay the high prices asked even for pet quality. Would it be fair to summise that there are some registered breeders out there in it for the money just as fatsofatsoman asked?

Just like anything, if you're not happy with the price a breeder asks, you can go elsewhere!

Pet quality and show quality puppies in a litter come from the same health tested parents and have just as much time, effort and love put into them while being raised, so I don't think its unreasonable for them to be sold at the same price.

[Baileys mum]

Some great answers there and breeding is a risky 'business' (pardon the pun) but what about the very high priced puppies offered when there is no show history behind them? In fairness, a lot of puppy buyers would have no idea of confirmation and what is expected of a show quality puppy , and I do understand these are puppies are not normally offered as pets, but they still pay the high prices asked even for pet quality. Would it be fair to summise that there are some registered breeders out there in it for the money just as fatsofatsoman asked?

The way I see it..Puppies still cost the same to breed & raise no matter if they are show or pet quality & while I admit there may be some breeders in it for the money, most ethical breeders will be lucky just to recoup the money spent breeding & raising the litter.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Baileys mum

[Crisovar]

Having parents that have been exhibited does not make a litter of pups genetically superior or healthier to any other.

[Elenbah]

So is it possible for a breeder to be soley motivated by money and not be classed a byb or puppy farm?

If in their process they know that providing healthy, well bread pups with good tempraments will increase his profit?

They don't pump out pups in quantity but do breed at safe/healthy levels for the mothers. So really they're in it to make money but it isn't their main source of income (I can't see how it could be the main source and then have them comply with having healthy dogs).

Therefore the pups produced are very good quality, don't harm the breed but they make money with no interest in showing any of their dogs.

Are these people in existence or for a breeder to be reputable do they need to be in it for the love of the dogs and showing and not motivated by money?

Just interested to know as a buyer (I would never go byb) - but what if a breeder I go to has no interest in showing dogs but does have an interest in producing good pups and making money - should you automatically swerve these?

The registered breeder with the average number of dogs would have to have very poor business sense if his sole motivation was thinking he would make money....To start with, usually the cost of 2/3 puppies is outlaid well before the pups are born or sold... so you have outlaid all this money not knowing if you will see it again,.... that's not a good investment...

Most breeders charge the price of a stud fee for their pups and sell in line with the prices that other breeders ask.....

I am not sure why breeders have to keep accounting for the price they charge for their pups...but your next pet puppy/show puppy hasn't just appeared because 2 dogs spent a short time together and the first bit of work the breeder has had to do is advertise the pups....the mum doesn't do all the work without the help of the breeder....usually a lot of dedication and TLC has gone into producing the best combination of both parents and ensuring your puppy is going to be the best he/she can be for their new owner.....

Usually I breed a litter when I want something myself to carry on with. There may be 3 to 5 puppies in a litter, all puppies are raised equally...your pet puppy may indeed may have been an excellent specimen and equally suitable for showing as the next....not everyone wants to show so their pup is a pet.!!!! (show quality or not and the difference between may be as small as a splash of colour in the wrong place, this does not affect the dogs health)

Could you just imagine the prices we would ask for our pups if it were to pay ourselves wages (even as little as say $10 per hour) for caring and rearing your puppy from the time it is conceived till the time it is 8 to 10 weeks old and figured that into the cost of each pup besides everything else????

[Fatsofatsoman]

The registered breeder with the average number of dogs would have to have very poor business sense if his sole motivation was thinking he would make money....To start with, usually the cost of 2/3 puppies is outlaid well before the pups are born or sold... so you have outlaid all this money not knowing if you will see it again,.... that's not a good investment...

Most breeders charge the price of a stud fee for their pups and sell in line with the prices that other breeders ask.....

I am not sure why breeders have to keep accounting for the price they charge for their pups...but your next pet puppy/show puppy hasn't just appeared because 2 dogs spent a short time together and the first bit of work the breeder has had to do is advertise the pups....the mum doesn't do all the work without the help of the breeder....usually a lot of dedication and TLC has gone into producing the best combination of both parents and ensuring your puppy is going to be the best he/she can be for their new owner.....

Usually I breed a litter when I want something myself to carry on with. There may be 3 to 5 puppies in a litter, all puppies are raised equally...your pet puppy may indeed may have been an excellent specimen and equally suitable for showing as the next....not everyone wants to show so their pup is a pet.!!!! (show quality or not and the difference between may be as small as a splash of colour in the wrong place, this does not affect the dogs health)

Could you just imagine the prices we would ask for our pups if it were to pay ourselves wages (even as little as say $10 per hour) for caring and rearing your puppy from the time it is conceived till the time it is 8 to 10 weeks old and figured that into the cost of each pup besides everything else????

Well that's answered my question then - i.e. if the pups are being sold at the 'going' price and are of sufficient quality they're definitely not making money from it.

I suppose the breeders who do breed to run one on and not for profit actually keep these guys in check - as who's going to buy a really expensive pup from a 'profit' litter when the 'show' litter still has pups that aren't of show quality (or that breeders opinion of show quality) to sell.

I was just unaware how much a breeder was making - never tried or had the inkling to breed. I must admit before frequenting these boards I was of the opinion that yes, whilst the main reason breeders bred was to have a dog or two themselves they were still picking up a nice little earn as well. Again this website and reading the threads has taught me a thing or two.

[Fatsofatsoman]

And on another note - just entered my head.

Why are certain breeds more expensive? If money is not the overiding factor not even rarer breeds should cost more as the same effort is required, no? ah you say but the semen and stud fee is more for rarer breeds! therefore the owners of rarer breed stud dogs (I keep saying rarer - could be anything that makes a certain breed dearer) are obviously making more money! So really the demand and supply 'invisible hand' is at work - if not at the breeders door it is at the stud's.

[aussielover]

You can get common breeds from a registered breeder who health tests and trials their dogs in show, dog sport, working tests etc for around the same price as a pet shop crossbred.

The so called "purebreds" and designer dogs in petshops routinely sell for around $1200 in my area. This is often more than a registered breeder would charge. I know who I would rather get my future companion from....

Puppy farms are charging up to $3000 for untested crossbred poodles!

Purebreds that are this expensive- and there are only a few breeds where the average price would be around $3000, are generally at least coming from health tested parents at a minimum.

I don't see the problem with breeders charging an appropriate price and even making a profit if the produce quality puppies.

[shortstep]

Some great answers there and breeding is a risky 'business' (pardon the pun) but what about the very high priced puppies offered when there is no show history behind them? In fairness, a lot of puppy buyers would have no idea of confirmation and what is expected of a show quality puppy , and I do understand these are puppies are not normally offered as pets, but they still pay the high prices asked even for pet quality. Would it be fair to summise that there are some registered breeders out there in it for the money just as fatsofatsoman asked?

I think you may be making some assumptions.

1. Not all buyers want or think a show bred pup is of greater value or even equal value to a pup bred for some other function or to some other ideal. For example, someone who want a dog for function such as stock work, racing, hunting or even family pet. They will want parents that are proven in that function and were selected for that function. More and more people are realizing this.

2. Just because a breeder is breeding show dogs, does not mean they are breeding dogs with excellent health histories or are even doing the health testing that the buyer wants to find. They may also be breeding for extreme physical features that the buyer wants to avoid.

3. Just because a dog would be a show ring winner in conformation, does not mean that it has the structure the buyer is looking for. For example dogs that do the work of that breed almost always have a different structure than dogs that are bred for the show ring. (read thread on spanning terriers as an example, if you want a hunting terrier than you will likely want a dog that will be perfect in structure for the breed to go down holes but will be too small in the chest to win in the show ring.)

4. Most people want a pet, they do not want a show dog. It is too bad the term 'pet quality' means the dog is less than perfect for function of a show dog. How strange to the public it must seem that a pet quality dog which will be their full time family member and a huge emotional investment, should be a lesser quality and a lesser valued dog.

I can not tell you how bad I think the idea and term 'Pet Quality' is to the reputation of kennel club dog breeders right now. For goodness sakes, the primary buyer of show bred pups are pet homes, yet we label the only dog they can buy from the show breeder as a reject, a second.

For a long time this has been the culture, dog show breeders keep the best dogs and their rejects are sold on to pet homes. I do not think this model will last too much longer, the public is starting to demand dogs bred for the function of pet.

5. Just because a breeder is not interested in nor wants to breed for 'show ring' it does not mean they are therefore only breeding to make money. Nor does someone who makes every breeding decision based only on increasing their chance of winning a ribbon at a dog show, mean that they are not breeding for money.

Lets take it a step further, just because someone is only breeding to get themselves another dog for the show ring, does not mean they are breeding quality dogs nor dogs that would be suitable or an excellent choice for the pet buyer.

Today breeders who place to pet home should be working very hard on producing healthy and well tempered, moderate dogs suitable and truly fit for the function they will be doing. If someone wants to breed show dogs, then by all means they should do so. But that in it's self does not mean their dogs are worth more or less than someone breeding for some other reason, nor does it mean their dogs are bred to be excllent pets.

To the buyer, it should be, that the dogs has value because it was thoughtfuly and well bred for the function they have in mind.

So yes, a breeder that is consistently producing well tempered, healthy, moderate examples of their breed, selected for and are in fact fit for the function as a family pet, should be given the highest value for their pups from buyers looking for a family pet.

Edited April 14, 2011 by shortstep

[Crisovar]

And on another note - just entered my head.

Why are certain breeds more expensive? If money is not the overiding factor not even rarer breeds should cost more as the same effort is required, no? ah you say but the semen and stud fee is more for rarer breeds! therefore the owners of rarer breed stud dogs (I keep saying rarer - could be anything that makes a certain breed dearer) are obviously making more money! So really the demand and supply 'invisible hand' is at work - if not at the breeders door it is at the stud's.

The health testing required for some breeds can be very very expensive, if a breeder is bringing in animals or semen from overseas the costs associated with that are again very expensive. It can be difficult to actually land a litter on the ground in some breeds, caesarian sections, surgical implantation of semen, Flying animals around the country for matings there are a lot of expenses that the normal pet owner wouldn't have a clue about.

AT the end of the day Breeding dogs costs money, often really big money, why should Breeders not end up with a little back for their efforts to produce the very best they can, after all the puppy buyers expect the very best service and product and the after care goes on for years. You could not put a price on that.