Interesting Discussion On Processed Dog Foods

[alpha bet]

Currently at an International Conference we were presented with the facts pet foods.

Some very interesting results coming out on new 'independent' studies about the effect of these accepted commercial feeds.

One of the things that we have always been told is that the commercial feeds are based on scientific research. However I have now found out that these studies (back prior to 1982) where never fully completed..... thus the results are not substantiated. The approved ratings for proteins etc were given a minimum requirement (after they found that the breeds of beagle and dalmations had trouble processessing at the higher levels). Also that most of the research is conduction or paid for by the pet food companies.

Some of the research I am looking at now is from europe which i sponsored by the dog clubs, also other papers from an american who is having blood tests to back up the results.

This is all the stuff that is related to the testing done into over vaccinations and the recommendations now are we should be doing an annual titre test only.

Have to say that now I will be more careful about these processed foods especially those that recommend dry food only diet. It all gets a little confusing but I will keep slogging away to work it out.

[Erny]

Sounds very interesting, AB.

What conference is it? IE Who are the speakers and who is it run by? (If it is in order to say.)

Will be interested in hearing more on both the commercial foods and also the vaccinations.

[GeckoTree]

It's all one can do, not much different to human foods. How many of us eat a completely non processed natural food died? Bugger all I reckon.

[Crisovar]

They have their place and like every thing else it is about balance and moderation.

[alpha bet]

Sounds very interesting, AB.

What conference is it? IE Who are the speakers and who is it run by? (If it is in order to say.)

Will be interested in hearing more on both the commercial foods and also the vaccinations.

IACP Conference in San Diego - The main speaker on the food is Wendy Volhard (think I spelt it right) - lots of knowledge about what research has been done in the past and the effects over the last 50 years.

They are talking about vaccinations only being needed as puppies and then titre tested after that (annually) many dogs never need to have any further vaccinations. Indications coming thru is that our dogs expected life span should be in the region of 18-20 years but now (partly thru diet and vaccinations) we are seeing the life being halved in some cases.\. Interesting thought.

Also Dr Peter Eeg talking on effects of health/diet on behaviours.

Another important point is that the veterinary students only have one half day (optional) session on nutrition during their training. Thus unless the individual takes on a particular leaning to that field we cannot expect vets to have the knowledge outside of what they are told by the food manufacturers. Pretty poor really.

Many many issues.... my head is still ringing will need time to digest....

[Staranais]

Another important point is that the veterinary students only have one half day (optional) session on nutrition during their training. Thus unless the individual takes on a particular leaning to that field we cannot expect vets to have the knowledge outside of what they are told by the food manufacturers. Pretty poor really.

Tee hee, if only that was true. We got probably 10 lectures on companion animal nutrition in 3rd year, and another 4 or so in 5th year as part of our companion animal medicine paper, plus two field trips to different pet food factories over the course of the degree, and we spend a week in the freezing works where we get to see (among other things) exactly what parts of meat animals do and don't get sold as pet food. And no, none of this is optional, and yes, it is examined.

And that's just companion animal nutrition, we have whole papers on ruminant nutrition.

Vet students don't graduate as experts in nutrition by any means, not unless they do a lot of independent research, but we definitely do study the subject. To put it in perspective, we probably spend as much time being lectured on companion animal nutrition as we do being lectured on cardiology or gastroenterology.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Staranais

[Erny]

They are talking about vaccinations only being needed as puppies and then titre tested after that (annually) many dogs never need to have any further vaccinations. Indications coming thru is that our dogs expected life span should be in the region of 18-20 years but now (partly thru diet and vaccinations) we are seeing the life being halved in some cases.\. Interesting thought.

Yes - I have been to a few of Dr Bruce Syme's seminars and that discussion has come up. Seems people (in general) think that our dogs are living longer and longer, but that information has in more recent years been contradicted.

I am glad the subject of Vaccinations in terms of "less is more" is there on the agenda.

[Erny]

Tee hee, if only that was true. We got probably 10 lectures on companion animal nutrition in 3rd year, and another 4 or so in 5th year as part of our companion animal medicine paper, plus two field trips to different pet food factories over the course of the degree, and we spend a week in the freezing works where we get to see (among other things) exactly what does and doesn't go into pet food. And no, none of this is optional, and yes, it is examined.

And that's just companion animal nutrition, we have whole papers on ruminant nutrition.

Vet students don't graduate as experts in nutrition by any means, not unless they do a lot of independent research, but we definitely do study the subject.

I'm pleased to hear that, Staranais. Do you now how the NZ Veterinary Studies compare to the Oz Studies? Are they the same?

[stormie]

Tee hee, if only that was true. We got probably 10 lectures on companion animal nutrition in 3rd year, and another 4 or so in 5th year as part of our companion animal medicine paper, plus two field trips to different pet food factories over the course of the degree, and we spend a week in the freezing works where we get to see (among other things) exactly what does and doesn't go into pet food. And no, none of this is optional, and yes, it is examined.

And that's just companion animal nutrition, we have whole papers on ruminant nutrition.

Vet students don't graduate as experts in nutrition by any means, not unless they do a lot of independent research, but we definitely do study the subject.

I'm pleased to hear that, Staranais. Do you now how the NZ Veterinary Studies compare to the Oz Studies? Are they the same?

This sounds similar to what my Vet friend did when she studied in WA from memory. I remember her telling me stories of field trips to similar places.

[Staranais]

I'm pleased to hear that, Staranais. Do you now how the NZ Veterinary Studies compare to the Oz Studies? Are they the same?

No idea really, hopefully one of the Aussie vets or vet students can answer.

Although, since I can automatically register to practice in Ozzie when I graduate (and I believe your vets are automatically eligible to register to practice in NZ), I'd presume our degrees are fairly comparable?

[stormie]

If you go to the Sydney Uni website, you can look up the course description and look at each study unit.

This is currently the description for Animal Nutrition:

Unit of study description

Animal Digestion and Nutrition is a unit of study that consists of an integrated series of lectures, practical classes, tutorials and workshops focusing on the comparative structure and the function of the digestive system along with classes exploring the principles and practice of nutrition and interactions between nutrients that influence health and production.

Unit coordinator: Dr Susan Hemsley

Classes: lectures: 62hrs practicals: 19hrs tutorials: 10 hrs

So clearly it's a lot more than just half a day!

I think it's a bit unfortunate what has been said during this conference. Maybe it's different in the USA, but I can't help but think if they've given false information regarding Veterinary Study, how much of the other information is also incorrect?

Edited April 14, 2011 by stormie

[aussielover]

We have a whole subject on animal nutrition!

I'd say just over half is on production animal nutrition and horses and the rest on small animal nutrition- mainly dogs and cats. So fairly similar to what staranais said.

[aussielover]

If you go to the Sydney Uni website, you can look up the course description and look at each study unit.

This is currently the description for Animal Nutrition:

Unit of study description

Animal Digestion and Nutrition is a unit of study that consists of an integrated series of lectures, practical classes, tutorials and workshops focusing on the comparative structure and the function of the digestive system along with classes exploring the principles and practice of nutrition and interactions between nutrients that influence health and production.

Unit coordinator: Dr Susan Hemsley

Classes: lectures: 62hrs practicals: 19hrs tutorials: 10 hrs

So clearly it's a lot more than just half a day!

I think it's a bit unfortunate what has been said during this conference. Maybe it's different in the USA, but I can't help but think if they've given false information regarding Veterinary Study, how much of the other information is also incorrect?

well, the digestion part is not really nutrition- more physiology and GIT anatomy.

So there is about 30 hrs of nutrition lectures; i'd say around 10 hrs on smallies, the rest on large animals.

[Staranais]

Interesting to find out what you Aussie vet students do. Makes sense that it's similar to what we do.

[stormie]

If you go to the Sydney Uni website, you can look up the course description and look at each study unit.

This is currently the description for Animal Nutrition:

Unit of study description

Animal Digestion and Nutrition is a unit of study that consists of an integrated series of lectures, practical classes, tutorials and workshops focusing on the comparative structure and the function of the digestive system along with classes exploring the principles and practice of nutrition and interactions between nutrients that influence health and production.

Unit coordinator: Dr Susan Hemsley

Classes: lectures: 62hrs practicals: 19hrs tutorials: 10 hrs

So clearly it's a lot more than just half a day!

I think it's a bit unfortunate what has been said during this conference. Maybe it's different in the USA, but I can't help but think if they've given false information regarding Veterinary Study, how much of the other information is also incorrect?

well, the digestion part is not really nutrition- more physiology and GIT anatomy.

So there is about 30 hrs of nutrition lectures; i'd say around 10 hrs on smallies, the rest on large animals.

Strange. I just spoke to old colleague who graduated about 4-5 years ago from Syd Uni and he said that almost an entire semester in 2nd year was dedicated to nutrition. Said they didn't go to food factories but did go to abattoirs.

[Staranais]

Maybe it depends on exactly what you're classing as nutrition. I was only including lectures specifically about cat & dog food in the estimate I made. But if I included related lectures (things like lectures on the principles of monogastric animal nutrition, comparative gut anatomy & physiology etc) then it would probably be more like the total you're quoting, Stormie.