Rescue Dog - Dane X Behaviour Issues

[fragmoider]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if I could get a few opinions and some possible tips.

We recently adopted a great dane cross pup (6-8 months) from the pound and we are having a few issues settling him him with our other dog boys (1 lab/1 mastiffX - both neutered). Both the original dogs are well behaved and adjusted they sit/drop for their food, walk well enough, show no agression towards other dogs, do not enter the home/exit unless invited, when inside sit quietly in their allocated space and do pretty much what we need of them.

I guess I want to establish that they get regular obedience and their are rules and boundaries set for them and for the most part they follow them without incident.

So far so good...

Initially he had food agression which is not suprising considering how emaciated he was, this has gradually reduced to where we have only an occasional lapse for which he is immediately corrected all dogs eat their meals together now without incident. He has learned to sit and stay before he gets his food.

Sitting/stay - he is often stubborn with this but getting better with daily sessions.

walking on the lead - quite good and responds well to corrections, sometimes stubborn though with his sit (again corrected when non compliant)

The bad

toy agressive and too hyper when playing and quite often causes too much excitement with the other 2 dogs. At the dog park he is fine by himself but again plays too rough IMO with the other dogs there,especially with the maastiff as they gang up on the other dogs.

Doors - will not get the message and will constantly try and push himself in, will bolt inside if the door is left unattended despite the routine of sit/stay being re-inforced daily and being corrected every single time and removed from the house.

Our awesome lab is often bullied by him and I find this escalates too far with yelps often being heard - the lab is basiaclly a silent dog so this is concerning to say the least.

Now I know these are all dominant behaviours and we are working hard to squash them but I am beginning to understand why he ended up at the pound in the first place, they may seem minor but I am aware of how this could possibly escalate and we end up with a dangerous dog despite what we are doing - exercise, structure, discipline but it's wearing us down as we generally work long hours, study part time @ uni etc.

When writing this I realise that to many they are possibly minor things but to mean it means there is no respect from him to us so the potential or us being 'disciplined' is high, they are the thin edge of the wedge IMO. We want to have kids in the near future so this is also a major concern to the both of us and under no cicrumstances will I tolerate a dog that doesn't know his place in the scheme of things.

Are there any tips I can utilise? He is whole currently but we of course want to desex him and will do so immediately if it will help things. we can't really afford several hundred dollars for a behaviourist?

Are we being too hasty and expecting too much too soon from him?

He was initially when we tested him at the pound a good dog, quite soft and compliant but as soon as he got home he started to wear us down.

We discussed the possibility of re-homing him last night and my gut says this may be the right course of action as we may not have the energy necessary to rehab him but it's the last resort.

Any help would be appreciated.

[poodlefan]

Get some qualified and experienced professional advice. If you rehome a dog with issues, chances are he'll bounce from home to home until someone bites the bullet and addresses them.

I can't see the pup but it sounds unsocialised, it probably has little bite inhibition, is the product of little or no training and quite dominant in personality. No amount of training will change personality and the mix with your existing dog may be a poor one.

But get a professional view from someone who can see the dog in the flesh. In the meantime, keep him out of the dog park.

How recent was the adoption?

Edited April 12, 2011 by poodlefan

[fragmoider]

Get some qualified and experienced professional advice. If you rehome a dog with issues, chances are he'll bounce from home to home until someone bites the bullet and addresses them.

I can't see the pup but it sounds unsocialised, it probably has little bite inhibition, is the product of little or no training and quite dominant in personality. No amount of training will change personality and the mix with your existing dog may be a poor one.

But get a professional view from someone who can see the dog in the flesh. In the meantime, keep him out of the dog park.

How recent was the adoption?

Yes I agree with you there, and I believe we are the ones biting the bullet at this time :-).

In terms of getting a pro in just not sure we can afford it or indeed whether it's going to make a difference? If we can't learn to modify his behaviour then why outsourcing be the solution. It's not as if we haven't been able to train our existing dogs to suit us. I'm just looking for some advice.

He is fine in the park solo, it's when he gets there with the other dogs that the pack behaviour starts.

Hi is a recent adoption 6 weeks.

thanks

I am happy to be proven wrong about a dog trainer - any trainer that can help us make some lasting changes feel free to PM me.

Edited April 12, 2011 by fragmoider

[poodlefan]

In terms of getting a pro in just not sure we can afford it or indeed whether it's going to make a difference? If we can't learn to modify his behaviour then why outsourcing be the solution. It's not as if we haven't been able to train our existing dogs to suit us. I'm just looking for some advice.

My advice is based on the fact that you've expressed that you are having issues with this dog.

You're now confronted with a more challenging dog - one that doesn't respond to your existing training skill set. One that has some gaps in its training and that may be a tougher proposition in terms of temperament.

A decent professional will have more skill than you - both in analysing the dog, your response to it and its "fit" within your existing dog/human pack AND more tools in the solutions toolbox.

If you cant' afford to get professional help then IMO there's only one real option - return the pup to the pound.

Edited April 12, 2011 by poodlefan

[Jumabaar]

I had help with my boy from a behaviourist.

I have 5 very happy well trained dogs, but for number 6 I needed an outside opinion on the best way to deal with him, and new techniques to achieve it. In all honesty I wish I had done it earlier, my boy was unhappy and had developed some really strong habits by the time I did, so the retraining has taken much longer than if I had gone when I first thought about doing it.

From a trainer you will go with your dog and they will work with you to put in strategies to resolve the problems. Your in NSW so perhaps K9 pro would be helpful. That is who I went to and I have ongoing support for any new issues that pop up.

I struggled for 18mths before I did anything, and I saw dramatic improvements in 3 months. He isn't perfect but he is happy again and so am I. I am still working with him (I am the slack one!) and he is still improving.

I hope you do consider this option. I wouldn't give advice over the Internet because you really need to see the dog- body language etc to really try and understand what is motivating him so you can resolve the problems. Some peolpe told me my dogs problems were dominance, it turned out it was fearfullness so addressing this actually solved the motivation of the behavior, not just the manifestations of it.

[corvus]

You should get professional help because anything someone on the internet says is probably going to be a stab in the dark.

toy agressive and too hyper when playing and quite often causes too much excitement with the other 2 dogs. At the dog park he is fine by himself but again plays too rough IMO with the other dogs there,especially with the maastiff as they gang up on the other dogs.

Take a look at the chill out game from Dee Ganley. You can find it by doing a Google search. Sometimes dogs need to learn to control their arousal when they play. It is possible to teach them that. The Give me a Break game from Lesley McDevitt's book Control Unleashed is along the same lines. The aim is to get the dog to lie down after a very short period of play (no more than 30 seconds). You're trying to teach them that play is about a little excitement, then a little break, then more excitement, then calm down a bit. When you watch dogs play with each other, this is the usual pattern. When they don't take a break after a few minutes it can sometimes get noisier and rougher and everyone gets a bit over-excited.

Doors - will not get the message and will constantly try and push himself in, will bolt inside if the door is left unattended despite the routine of sit/stay being re-inforced daily and being corrected every single time and removed from the house.

I find that dogs are quite cooperative when they understand the most efficient and reliable way to get the good stuff. If he keeps pushing through the door he doesn't understand that it's in his best interests to wait. Help him understand! Why should he wait? Are you going to close the door in his face before he gets in if he doesn't wait? Is he going to get a treat if he waits until he is invited in? Break it down into smaller pieces and make it a game. Can you wait for 3 seconds?? Yay!! Come on in! Have a treat. Can you wait for 4 seconds? Yaaay! Come on in. You have to make sure he's not ABLE to do what you don't want him to do. If he can push in through the door then he will keep doing it until he has a better reason not to. Until you get that nailed, just don't leave the door open.

Our awesome lab is often bullied by him and I find this escalates too far with yelps often being heard - the lab is basiaclly a silent dog so this is concerning to say the least.

Don't let him. He can't bully your lab if he doesn't have access to the lab. The chill out game could help here as well.

When writing this I realise that to many they are possibly minor things but to mean it means there is no respect from him to us so the potential or us being 'disciplined' is high, they are the thin edge of the wedge IMO. We want to have kids in the near future so this is also a major concern to the both of us and under no cicrumstances will I tolerate a dog that doesn't know his place in the scheme of things.

What is 'respect'? Some dogs automatically mind their humans, but others just don't care that much. That doesn't mean they can't be worked with or that you can't teach them to live in harmony with you. My dogs generally couldn't care less if I'm annoyed with them. What's it to them? Personally, I like it that way. They do care if I've called their name or told them to do something that is historically rewarding. They are generally quite pleasant to live with and obey the rules. They don't obey them because they respect us. They obey them because it has been rewarded in the past. My youngest dog is not your typical laid back, biddable, submissive domestic dog. He is always looking for situations to exploit. Always. It was hard work teaching ourselves how to manage him, but once we got into the habit of always checking what he was doing, making snap decisions about whether to stop behaviour or let it go, always giving directions, and thinking several steps ahead to try to anticipate what he was going to do, it wasn't that big a deal. These days it is second nature and we don't really notice it. Sometimes I think you just have to accept your dog for who they are and find a way to reach them rather than expecting them to just be what you want them to be.

[fragmoider]

thanks all,

I'll give a few pros a call and see who is going to be able to work with us on this..

[poodlefan]

thanks all,

I'll give a few pros a call and see who is going to be able to work with us on this..

If you tell us where you live (city or town) you'll probably get some recommendations

[persephone]

If we can't learn to modify his behaviour then why outsourcing be the solution

Because professionals deal with problem dogs all the time.

because they have many years of studying/learning from/fixing all sorts of behaviours.

Please get a recommendation before speaking with "a few pros"

many people claim all sorts of things in relation to dog behaviour problems.

There are 'pros' out there who do not have the experience or expertise needed ; there are 'pros' out there whose techniques are often not suitable for a wide range of problems ..there are the 'cowboys' to steer clear of as well.

Folks here who have had assistance will gladly tell you of tried & true professionals in your area ..

[fragmoider]

If we can't learn to modify his behaviour then why outsourcing be the solution

Because professionals deal with problem dogs all the time.

because they have many years of studying/learning from/fixing all sorts of behaviours.

Please get a recommendation before speaking with "a few pros"

many people claim all sorts of things in relation to dog behaviour problems.

There are 'pros' out there who do not have the experience or expertise needed ; there are 'pros' out there whose techniques are often not suitable for a wide range of problems ..there are the 'cowboys' to steer clear of as well.

Folks here who have had assistance will gladly tell you of tried & true professionals in your area ..

I've had a email from Steve of K9 Pro who has been reccomended here so I'll see what he thinks.

You are right though, I have come across a few fairly average dog trainers/"behaviourists" so I remain skeptical until proven otherwise but obviously someone who works the sort of stuff all day has a much larger toolset than I do so I think it's advice I will heed.

Yeah I can see how the word pro (didn't think of that) might be taken out of context but I assure you it's my love of abbreviation not anything else. :-)

Edited April 12, 2011 by fragmoider

[Aidan3]

Are there any tips I can utilise?

Glad you're going to speak to Steve. The one thing that stood out to me was that you mentioned corrections a lot but didn't mention rewards (unless I missed it). It's difficult to teach dogs to do stuff if you're only telling them when they got something wrong, remember that commands are meaningless until you can attach a meaning to them.

Another thing to consider, if he isn't "getting it", but he's being corrected for getting it wrong - then that's a very confusing and stressful situation and can lead to all sorts of displacement behaviours which you won't necessarily want (particularly the ones that will be a problem for your other dogs).