Weavers

[africandreams]

So we have done showing, we've just started trialling in obedience and are looking at doing agility

We're starting training next term, have done some basics at home (jumps etc)

One thing I want to get right ( or teach correctly) is the weavers.

Whats the best way to teach a dog?

What is the 2x2method?

I've seen you can buy some poles for the 2x2 method, also Susan Garretts 2x2 method dvd.

Any advice would be fantastic!!

[TerraNik]

I've used the 2x2 method and couldn't be happier!! I would definitely recommend getting the DVD.

[Aussienot]

In short form the 2 x 2 method teaches weaves starting with just two weave poles. You use shaping to get the dog to walk between them, and deliver a treat in a spot that encourages the dog to wrap around the second pole. You keep raising the criteria until the dog can enter from anywhere and always enter correctly, and wraps around the second pole.

If the dog can learn correct entries and the wrapping motion, they have all the skills that they need. The rest is just repeat, repeat, repeat.

Once the dog does two poles perfectly, you add another set of two, then a third set of two. You increasingly move the sets of two closer until your dog is weaving 6 poles.

This is really short form explanation. Get the dvd to get the details. Having used a couple of methods before, I think it is a brilliant way to teach the weaves. I taught my dog how to do two poles in two evenings, and a week later she was doing 12 poles perfectly.

[koalathebear]

We started doing this last Wednesday and it was so confusing that we had to put the dogs aside and try to do it on our own, walking in with food in both hands and then kind of turning around and continuing in a figure 8. I am still confused so looking forward to tomorrow night when I can figure out how to do it. I am the most uncoordinated person in the world so need to figure it out before I confuse the poor dog.

[Amerykus]

the 3 pole method here

Vickie can explain it better... she taught me

[Kavik]

I did combined channel, slanted pole and 3 pole (Vickie taught me that too ) - and the 3 pole really made a difference to Kaos's understanding and entries. I may give 2x2 a go next time, I have the DVD and now that I understand it better it looks really interesting. Certainly I have incorporated bits such as proofing entries from the DVD into our practice already.

[Aussienot]

Koala the bear, I think you are talking about the 'follow the leading hand' exercise, not the 2 x 2 weave poles. The spinning in front of the dog while doing a figure eight really threw me for a loop too! Brings back bad memories of why I don't dance. Definately practice makes perfect with that one.

[Tassie]

SG 2x2 worked really well for me and Rory - but prefer to use a toy rather than food. And you really really need tohe dvd and you need to watch it several times before you get the dog involved - and then keep going back to it (orwas that just me?? ) I just love the independent weaving I've got, with very little time.

[koalathebear]

Koala the bear, I think you are talking about the 'follow the leading hand' exercise, not the 2 x 2 weave poles. The spinning in front of the dog while doing a figure eight really threw me for a loop too! Brings back bad memories of why I don't dance. Definately practice makes perfect with that one.

Ooops ;) We've only had one lesson so far, so there's still a lot to learn - obviously. The figure 8 is soooo confusing - and like you I am not a fan of dancing

[africandreams]

thanks everyone for replies looks like i mite buy the dvd and give it a go.

[DeltaCharlie]

Cody and Delta were shaped to weave, Cody with a ball and Delta with a "Manners Minder" at the end of the poles because she is such a food hog LOL. I tried every method under the sun with Charlie, gave up on ever teaching him to weave, then one day at Vickies place she gave it a go and had him weaving in about 10mins LOL.

My favourite method with food is definitely what I used with Delta, it would probably work really well with the 2x2 method too. The manners minder is a remote controlled treat dispenser that also makes a beeping sound if you want (I substituted that instead of a click). I positioned it along the reward line and Delta knew that if she heard the beep then she did it correctly and continued forward to get her treat. It took me completely out of the picture and she learnt to weave independently. Then I made the mistake of babying her along weave poles once we started trialling and I no longer have a 100% independent weaver

My new pup will be taught by my flatmate (she is training both pups to weave and Im teaching them the contacts... working to our strengths :D ) She has started doing entries only (he is 9months old) and at about 14 or so months he will be taught to weave. She has always taught using guides and she has some exceptional weaving dogs so that method works well for her.

I think it is a matter of what works for you. I have never really been able to use guides, channels or V weaves with much success. I have always had the best results with shaping weaves, but I don't like the results I'm seeing with the 2x2 method even though they are similar. I've seen dogs taught with the 2x2 method who have recently start trialling who are missing easy weave entries, even multiple times in a row, and have no speed or drive through the weaves. That is not how I want my dog to weave. But that's a whole other discussion that came up on the agility training thread not too long ago and really doesn't need to be dredged back up.

Edited April 13, 2011 by DeltaCharlie

[africandreams]

can I just ask what 'entries' are?

Am i right in thinking the dog must always enter with the first pole on the left?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Yes, dog must enter at the end you indicate with the first pole on their left shoulder. Which makes working with just two poles a bit arbitary, ie there is no set direction unless you set one, and you must set one and be consistent. With four poles it gets more obvious.

And what 2x2 does is teach you to "work the arc" ie sending your dog from various positions around the "entry" so the dog learns to find the right entry by itself so you don't always have to supervise the run and you can be on either side of the poles or going somewhere else and the dog will complete the weaves properly.

Do get the dvd set. It helps so much.

[J...]

I think it is a matter of what works for you. I have never really been able to use guides, channels or V weaves with much success. I have always had the best results with shaping weaves, but I don't like the results I'm seeing with the 2x2 method even though they are similar. I've seen dogs taught with the 2x2 method who have recently start trialling who are missing easy weave entries, even multiple times in a row, and have no speed or drive through the weaves. That is not how I want my dog to weave. But that's a whole other discussion that came up on the agility training thread not too long ago and really doesn't need to be dredged back up.

An issue with 2x2 is that it's "quick and easy" You have a dog weaving 12 poles in 12 days and because the dog can "weave" it's easy to fall into the trap of stopping there. In reality 12 poles fills the first DVD, there is an entire DVD of proofing that follows.

I taught Darcy my 5 yo how to weave out of the Shaping Success book, she was an ok weaver but not a great one. I retaught her when I got the DVD, but once again because she could already weave I took shortcuts and didn't follow it to the letter. While she improved, she wasn't nailing difficult entries and was having problems with 10th pole popping.

I put Darcy through 2x2 again at the same rate as I put my young dog through. She's not missed a weave entry or popped a pole since - that's with some bloody awful weave poles here in Vic, I don't ever soften entries nor do I stick around to make sure she stays in.

Unfortunately I fell into the above problem - partially due to my training circumstances. My young dog can nail 12 poles in the backyard at speed and with confidence. Take it out on the road and she's struggling with even simple entries. All well and good to have 12 poles in your back yard but it's not so easy to pull them up, repeg into a new location and surround it with distracting gear like jump/tunnels and contact gear, especially when you pretty much train on your own. You can't blame the method for that - that's totally my fault.

[Tassie]

Jess. You're so very right! The taking it on the road and proofing is super important. Tried Rory at the Hobart Royal in the lunch break one day - took him about 5 minutes to even notice the weave poles - too busy rubbernecking - especially at the horses warming up behind a hessian fence about 15 metres away . He did figure it out in the end though.

[kelpiechick]

An issue with 2x2 is that it's "quick and easy" You have a dog weaving 12 poles in 12 days and because the dog can "weave" it's easy to fall into the trap of stopping there. In reality 12 poles fills the first DVD, there is an entire DVD of proofing that follows.

So very true

We all watch Susan Salo changing the appearance of jumps to totally 'change the picture' for the dog to encourage problem solving but for most of our dogs the only time they get a 'changed picture' of the weave poles is actually in a trial.

Don't know what it's like in other states but in Victoria you can get : fixed base, stick in the ground, fat poles, skinny poles, rigid poles, wobbly poles, striped poles, plain poles, different colour poles, poles with flags on top ..... and probably a few more variations that I haven't thought of.

And that's just equipment 'distractions' without any handling ones being thrown in as well.

We tend to think 'weaves are weaves' without giving much consideration to how they might appear totally different to our dogs.

And I also think that this sometimes shows up more in the beginning with younger dogs that have been taught 2x2's as the method encourages such lovely independent entries right from the start, so the dogs are not being 'babysat' (is that a word?) into the weaves as much as they are when taught other methods, then we wonder what's gone wrong when they appear to not even recognise the poles at first.

Another problem that I have seen with some teaching the method is that they stick to the easier entries in order to move on quicker and never really work much on the more difficult 'slice of the pie' where the dog really has to think to figure out how to enter and collect.

Big fan of the method though and with the results I have gotten from my young BC compared to my kelpies that were taught with other methods - as I rush off to find my old stick in the ground poles on the way to Bunnings to buy some tape and more PVC to make a striped set, LOL.

[Pugsley1]

I am about to try and teach weavers as well.... so thanks for the training ideas.

What do you guys use as weavers in your back yards??? is there something that is easy to put up/put down???Is there such thing as home made weavers??

Thanks any one..... (brand new agility person if you can't tell :D)

[DeltaCharlie]

For years my weave poles were tomato stakes stuck in the ground with pvc pipe over the top of them.

If you need to replicate the bar along the bottom (depends on your dog) you can try putting something like the stuff they use to make seat belts along the ground with holes in it at 600mm (or 550mm for ADAA) and put your poles through that.