Boarding / Training Programs

[BorderBo]

Hello Everyone!

I am a newbie to the forum and would like to introduce myself and also say how much I have enjoyed reading through the various topics and threads and how much I have learned from you all.

I am the relatively new owner (8 weeks) of a 9 month old border kelpie x rescue pup who has proven to be quite a challenge for me. I lost my cattle dog (13.5 years) at Xmas to congestive heart failure and it's been quite a few years since I've had to deal with a pup, let alone a completely untrained, very bombastic one.

Soon after bringing our boy home from the rescue facility, I thought I detected some laxity in his hips when running. Turns out I was right and he has rather bad HD, particularly in his left hip. After a consultation with an ortho specialist, we had him booked in for a triple pelvic osteotomy to correct the problem - there was a very small window of opportunity regarding his eligibility for this procedure (age, arthritis, damage to the rim of the socket) and so the pressure was on to get it done asap. After careful consideration (I'll get to that in a minute) we have cancelled the operation because whilst our boy might be physically eligible for the operation, I don't believe he is mentally or emotionally with a 12 week recovery period -IMO (and my vet as it turned out - why were we doing it then?) he is way too manic and energetic to be successfully contained for that period of time without huge stress or compromising of the surgery. I believe that Bo's hips are the least of his problems at the moment. The vet has expressed that he can always "fix" his hip/s later on if not now. I'm not sure where that will take us.

I decided pretty early on in the piece to bring in Dog Tech for some one-on-one-training sessions as well as joining their adolescent obedience classes which were incredibly stressful and left me feeling way out of my depth. We were training in a confined space (at the back of a Pet store with 10 other juvenile dogs). Bo was over-the-top excited, barking, lunging and turning cartwheels and somersaults. On the flip side, Bo is a dream in the house - he was quick to learn boundaries (i.e. no entering the kitchen or coming upstairs to the second level of our house) and is now well-mannered when it comes to entering and exiting doorways (he sits, stays until released), ditto getting in and out of the car (again, stays put until he is released). He is excellent with sits, stays, drops and "look" - focus on me (even during myriad distractions other than dogs - not all dogs and not in all situations - when he goes over his threshold I've lost him). I have had issues with him pulling like a freight train on the lead though I've been working on this and he has improved significantly, jumping up (he used to be get so excited when he first saw me in the morning that he would jump up repeatedly and mouth me on the wrist or arm, giving me a shake as well as bruises). Totally unacceptable, I know, and I have worked hard to bring this under control, having finally succeeded. He is also lunging at other dogs while out walking - it started off as excitement to get to the other dog but has escalated to what appears to be frustrated aggression. Anyway, after 3 one-on-one sessions and loads of practice using the methods taught by DT, these particular issues had not been resolved and I have struggled to be able to get the DT trainer back due to his busy schedule. I had wanted to do some further serious work with him hands-on, insitu to address this particular behaviour as I have begun to find my walks with Bo an exhausting and somewhat overwhelming experience. I walk him 2 x daily for 1 hour each walk. I am a novice and out of my depth and I am happy to own that title! I have been reading up on this behaviour on this forum and have been doing much of what is recommended and it has been working - small steps - but I don't always know if I'm actually improving things or making them worse. I tend to pick my dogs too at this stage to do the exercises with - those who tend to be more calm and disinterested in Bo's antics and behaviour as opposed to dogs who tend to be just as reactive and usually unchecked by their owners.

Anyway, last week I felt desperate, overwhelmed and totally exhausted with it all. I did some research and came across an in-house boarding / training program with one of Australia's leading dog trainers (although this trainer does not train the dog himself, rather his handlers do under his supervision - that is how it is presented). I appreciate that this is not a quick fix nor do I expect to collect a perfectly behaved and trained dog next week - I also appreciate that it is up to me to work with my dog and reinforce the training correctly. I am 100% committed to this process - I just felt that I was totally out-of-my-depth and I needed immediate respite otherwise I might have been tempted to throw in the towel mainly due to being over exhausted and overwhelmed. I was so worried about the situation and feeling out of control in it that I wasn't sleeping very well, therefore no doubt communicating a less than calm, relaxed and assertive energy through the lead.

I would be really appreciative of any feedback / experiences from others who have taken this route and any advice they might be able to offer going forward. I intend to follow up with weekly obedience classes at this facility and they have promised to assist me with any problems that might occur once I am travelling solo again. Whilst I should be maximising this downtime and recharging my batteries, I can't help but worry, too, about what lies ahead and if I can deliver the goods. I keep trying to focus on all the wins and improvements that have been achieved to date prior to my boy going into this program but I think I have also lost some confidence along the way as well. I am normally an assertive, confident person and was particularly so with my last dog who was somewhat of a handful when she was an adolescent too but a much smaller dog to deal with as well.

Predictably, I have been berated by the Dog Tech trainer for taking the easy way out - I don't see it this way though. It was either call in some emergency assistance and recharge in order to keep going forward or surrender the dog whom I felt I could not deal with but love to bits. Part of the DT process was ignoring the dog at all times to assert dominance and obtain pack leader status, except during training and when positive reinforcement / treats would be given for good behaviour (at home I was to only meet his basic needs and any attention would have to be earned). Whilst I can appreciate that bad behaviour / dominance needs to be addressed / ignored, I can't see how the family ostracising our dog who is an affectionate and loving pup by nature is in his (or ours) emotional best interests and nor do I believe it acknowledges or rewards his very good and calm behaviour in the home. I also feel it has affected my bonding process with him adversely. I am no expert, of course - but feel guided by my instincts and my past experiences with my previous dogs on this one. I believe the DT trainer to be well-intentioned and his approach has been 100% professional but I feel concerned that this one size fits all dogs approach is not working with my dog - nor is the Gentle Leader which stresses him out and which has rubbed a band of hair off his nose - the soft material slip collar seems totally ineffective for corrections too. Picture this: I am operating what is ostensibly double lead (much like double reins in dressage which I used to do). One lead end is connected to the Gentle Leader under the chin and the other end connected to the ring on the fabric slip collar O ring. One long loop lead where I control GL and lead as required. DT trainer very against the check chain which is being used at the training facility but a I stressed to him, it's not the tool (I believe) that is harmful to the dog but rather the person using it. I felt that I could do just as much harm to my dog's neck with misuse of the Gentle Leader. He did concede this was correct.

Excuse the ramblings - any feedback on this process would be greatly appreciated and thanks for taking the time to read my story.

Cheers, V

[ChristineX]

Hi Borderbo,

welcome to Dogzonline!

Your pup actually sounds pretty normal - but I would find another class - who does not concentrate on pack leader/dominence - training,focus and practice/practice practice will get you there.

Boarding/training programmes do not have a good reputation for lots of reasons, and I would stay away from them.

Have a look at K9pro (or is it Pro-k9?) website (you are looking for Steve Courtney) and have a look at some of this distance learning programmes - he has an extremly good reputation.

Also, have a look for local dog clubs - these mostly train using positive methods and I think may be more helpful than DogTech, who do tend to have one size fits all solutions for dogs.

Oh yeas - pictures of Bo, please. Mandatory on a dog lovers forum!!

Christinex

[BorderBo]

Thanks for your reply, reassurance and advice, Christine! Much appreciated. Relieved to hear Bo sounds like a normal pup!

Too late regarding the boarding / training program - he is there! Received progress call from trainer this morning - all positive feedback. Will cross each bridge as I come to it and will definitely call Steve Courtney should I need to - thanks for the heads up.

Cheers, Vicki x

PS: What was I thinking - here is a pic of my boy, Bo - beautiful blue eyes, bad hips! x

[megan_]

Which training centre is he at? Do a search for the name here....some of them are great...some of them have very bad reputations...

[BorderBo]

Hi Megan

Thanks for your response. He is at Steve Austin's Dural facility - I was reluctant to name it in my original post out of respect and I did do a search but found very little information and nothing first hand - at least not with the search I did. Would welcome feedback / direct experience.

Cheers, V

[Staranais]

Have a look at K9pro (or is it Pro-k9?) website (you are looking for Steve Courtney) and have a look at some of this distance learning programmes - he has an extremly good reputation.

Tee hee, K9Pro is Steve, Pro-K9 is Erny, both post on this forum.

I think they're in different cities? My grasp of Aussie geography is very average, sorry.

I'd recommend either based on my experiences with them, though.

[BorderBo]

Thank you Staranais - I have read quite a few posts from both and was left impressed. Hope Steve Austin's facility is also a recommendation because Bo is there!

[Vickie]

I have seen a few dogs before they went in & after they came out of Pet Resorts. In each case they did a brilliant job. I'm sure you will be just as happy with them, BorderBo.

[BorderBo]

Thanks for the positive feedback, Vickie, and for taking the trouble to respond. I had a good feeling about the team there but it's always reassuring to hear about first hand experience with anything - I am resting much easier - thanks so much. Cheers, Vicki

[Jeff Jones]

With Steve and Glenn mentoring / looking over the trainers I would be fairly comfortable in there ability.

[BorderBo]

With Steve and Glenn mentoring / looking over the trainers I would be fairly comfortable in there ability.

Thanks for that - appreciate your feedback.

Cheers, Vicki

[Erny]

With Steve and Glenn mentoring / looking over the trainers I would be fairly comfortable in there ability.

I agree.

ETA: Hey Staranais .. You're right. Steve (K9 Pro) is in a different State - ie NSW. I (Pro-K9) am in Victoria.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Erny

[Staranais]

With Steve and Glenn mentoring / looking over the trainers I would be fairly comfortable in there ability.

I agree.

ETA: Hey Staranais .. You're right. Steve (K9 Pro) is in a different State - ie NSW. I (Pro-K9) am in Victoria.

Woah, not just in a different city then. My grasp of Aussie geography is so terrible!

[Erny]

Woah, not just in a different city then. My grasp of Aussie geography is so terrible!

Well that's fair ..... my grasp of NZ geography ain't exactly something to write home about either .

To the OP - apologies for the brief OT.

[raineth]

I just wanted to say, because I know you're feeling overwhelemed, that there is actually some really good stuff going on in regards to your dog's behaviour good sits, stays, and good house behaviour

I think probably most of what's going on is due to his lack of socialisation as a puppy.

I have two rescue dogs who were both undersocialised as puppies. So socialising them is a constant thing since I have got them; and it has really apid off. When I think of what they were like when I first got them to what they are like now - I can see the huge difference it has made.

One thing though that is really important is to socialise quite slowly. Maybe some of your dog's bad behaviour was just because the steps you were taking were just too big for him?

I look forward to hearing how the boarding went

[BorderBo]

With Steve and Glenn mentoring / looking over the trainers I would be fairly comfortable in there ability.

I agree.

ETA: Hey Staranais ;) .. You're right. Steve (K9 Pro) is in a different State - ie NSW. I (Pro-K9) am in Victoria.

Thanks, Erny - appreciate your response. I have read many, many of your posts (some dating back years!) and I have found the information and advice on obedience / training given really helpful to me. I'll always read an "Erny" post!

Received progress report from Bo's handler today and he's coming along well apparently - has really settled in at the facility and is working hard for his tucker. I am resting up and am looking forward to reinforcing all their hard work and getting some further training on how to do this, of course!

Cheers, Vicki

[Erny]

That is a lovely compliment - thanks Vicki.

I am privileged to know Glenn, his work with dogs and to have had the opportunity to have worked under his guidance from time to time. Similarly, I have met Steve and as have many people, have heard him speak and watched him work. Both men are lovely people, love the dogs they work with and are very talented dog trainers. I have no doubt your dogs are in good hands with them and that you will be happy with the training your dog receives from them.

Please say to both Glenn and Steve from me.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Erny

[BorderBo]

I just wanted to say, because I know you're feeling overwhelemed, that there is actually some really good stuff going on in regards to your dog's behaviour good sits, stays, and good house behaviour

I think probably most of what's going on is due to his lack of socialisation as a puppy.

I have two rescue dogs who were both undersocialised as puppies. So socialising them is a constant thing since I have got them; and it has really apid off. When I think of what they were like when I first got them to what they are like now - I can see the huge difference it has made.

One thing though that is really important is to socialise quite slowly. Maybe some of your dog's bad behaviour was just because the steps you were taking were just too big for him? ;)

I look forward to hearing how the boarding went

Thanks for taking the time to respond and share your thoughts / support - much appreciated!

You are 100% right - Bo is doing some really good stuff and I am consciously focusing on all the positives, particularly on the tough days. Before he went off to the boarding / training facility, I was writing up a daily journal on our achievements / wins / good behaviours and focusing on those (usually because I would come home from walks totally stuffed, with aching arms, shoulders and fingers and needed to refocus on the positives!). He does some great work when we train in the park and in some instances, I have been able to conquer some meet and greets without too much distraction or hyperactivity. It has depended alot on the other dog/s - if they react, he's on for it too. I am doing plenty of sit, stay and look exercises with him. He's a good "looker" in every sense actually!

I also think you are right about the socialisation issue - when we picked him up from his foster carer, he was sharing a house with 11 other dogs of all temperaments, breeds and sizes but was pretty much doing whatever he wanted, when he wanted and with whom he wanted. I thought at the time that he was getting some good socialisation but with hindsight, perhaps not of the best kind! I know that with his first family whom he went to as a pup, there was an older dog in the family too. I don't know much more than that.

I had a progress report / chat with his handler today and she commented that over-the-top behaviour and manners with other dogs needed ...um .... work and he had been doing plenty of lunging and barking, as he does with me. She wasn't phased by it and said that they were working on his focus and him learning that he didn't get what he wanted with those tactics, etc. I'm glad they have seen him in action - the Dog Tech trainer never really did!

I am encouraged by your own experiences / progress with your guys - well done, you!

Thanks for your interest - I will keep you posted on how he / we goes. I am missing him and those blue eyes but my reconstructed shoulder is loving the rest!

Cheers, V

[BorderBo]

That is a lovely compliment - thanks Vicki.

I am privileged to know Glenn, his work with dogs and to have had the opportunity to have worked under his guidance from time to time. Similarly, I have met Steve and as have many people, have heard him speak and watched him work. Both men are lovely people, love the dogs they work with and are very talented dog trainers. I have no doubt your dogs are in good hands with them and that you will be happy with the training your dog receives from them.

Please say to both Glenn and Steve from me.

That's so reassuring to hear, Erny. I was hoping that when I posted my message that you would see it and respond with your own thoughts and feedback if you had any. Both Glenn and Steve struck me as really down-to-earth, lovely men, too, and of course, their talents / knowledge / reputations as trainers precede them.

I will definitely say ;) to them both for you and thanks again for all the positive feedback - I am resting much easier which is good.

[Casster17]

I echo Erny...

I have also worked with Glenn and have seen Steve Work. Your Bo is in really good hands...