Panosteitis - Anyone With Experience With This Disease?

[Keira&Phoenix]

So I had to take my baby to the vet today as she started to look very off colour, lethargic and was just not herself, on top of that she was squeeling in pain at random times and I could not work out what was sore..

She seemed to really go down hill today and I was quite concerned as she eats LOTS of palm seeds and I was worried we may have a blackage so I took her to the vet this arvo to be safe. The vet couldn't seem to find a particular reason to why she was squeeling while I was there but Phoenix had a temp of 39.4 so she had to be hospitalized for that and the vet said they would do bloods and maybe xray's depending on the bloods.

I just got the call from the vet saying bloods were all good but they did an xray of her tummy and she has lots of faeces blocking her up, she said they then did xrays of her limbs as she seemed sore all over after I left and they found that they were showing signs of her having panosteitis which would explain the pain and they said she would have been reluctant to go to the toilet due to the pain hence the build up. So she is now drugged up for the night and hopefully that will relieve her pain and the blockage, they will call in the morning to let me know if she has improved enough to come home or not.

Has anyone else had a dog with this disease? I have googled it and it is apparently quite common in larger breed dogs and usually shows up between 5 - 18months and usually last 2 - 5 months but sometimes longer.

If you have dealt with it. How long did it last? Was your dog on pain killers or steroids? What did you do to manage it?

I know the vet will give me loads of info when I got to pick her up but just wanted to get an idea of what I am looking at...

SOOOOOO glad I have pet insurance right now!

[espinay2]

Often called 'wandering lameness' as it can move from limb to limb. They do grow out of it, but yes it can sometimes be painful. Try supplementing with Bromelain from the health food store. There have been reports of this sometimes helping.

[Erny]

When we say "growing pains" do we mean Panosteitis? Or is that something different again?

Edited April 9, 2011 by Erny

[Keira&Phoenix]

Often called 'wandering lameness' as it can move from limb to limb. They do grow out of it, but yes it can sometimes be painful. Try supplementing with Bromelain from the health food store. There have been reports of this sometimes helping.

Thanks ;)

When we say "growing pains" do we mean Panosteitis? Or is that something different again?

Hi Erny,

Unsure. From what I have read they are not certain what causes it but could be some sort of viral infection or dietery or even genetic apparently...but only seems to occur in larger breed dogs.

Panosteitis is a common bone disease in dogs. It manifests with sudden, otherwise unexplained pain and lameness sometimes shifting from leg to leg, usually between 5 and 14 months of age.[1] Signs such as fever and weight loss, and symptoms such as anorexia, and lethargy can also be seen. The cause is unknown, but genetics, stress, infection, metabolism, or an autoimmune component may be factors. [2] It has also been suggested that rapid growth and high-protein food are involved in the pathogenesis[3].

Panosteitis is characterized histologically by an increase in activity of osteoblasts and fibroblasts in the periosteum, endosteum and bone marrow, resulting in fibrosis and the formation of connective tissue in the medullary cavity of the affected bone. Pain may be caused by increased pressure in the medullary cavity and the stimulation of pain receptors in the periosteum.[4]

Apparently tey have transplated bone marrow from affected dogs to unaffected and it caused the dogs to contract the disease.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Erny]

I hope it is something your dog can grow out of and that with or without help, is something that can be resolved

[Keira&Phoenix]

I hope it is something your dog can grow out of and that with or without help, is something that can be resolved

Thanks Erny. From what I have read it will eventually self correct just not sure how long it will take. Going to pick her up soon so the vet will give me a rundown.

[espinay2]

Yes, they grow out of it. For some who get it it is more painful than for others. There does seem to be some sort of genetic link in that some lines can get it more often than others. The only real treatment is pain relief/anti inflammatory to help the dog 'ride it out'.

[Erny]

Is it a case of forced rest for Pano dogs? Or is it ok for them to run around at will?

[espinay2]

Is it a case of forced rest for Pano dogs? Or is it ok for them to run around at will?

Force rest is not really necessary but if the dog is on pain killers, an owner should make sure the dog does not overdo it. The pain actually provides an important self limiting factor. You still want the dog to move as much as it is able.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is the importance of weight. If the dog is even a little overweight it can be important to get the weight down. Overweight and fast growth can be factors in bringing on Pano. Much better to keep them lean and slow growing. I would probably be giving Vit C too.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Thanks Espinay. She is home now and on pain killers and anti inflams for at least 10 days then go from there. If she is still showing signs of being really sore and stiff will have to get more meds. She seems much better but still sore this afternoon. She is a good weight certainly not overweight at all if anything she is quite thin (people comment they think she has greyhound in her LOL). But she did shoot up very quick and got very leggy in just a few weeks.

Vet said light excercise for a week and go from there. I will be keeping an eye on her though, never really do more than a 20-30 min slow walk per day anyways so is usually pretty light.

So Vitaman C and Bromelain? Just human stuff from health food store? And how much?

[Erny]

Is it a case of forced rest for Pano dogs? Or is it ok for them to run around at will?

Force rest is not really necessary but if the dog is on pain killers, an owner should make sure the dog does not overdo it. The pain actually provides an important self limiting factor. You still want the dog to move as much as it is able.

I had a dog and its owner come to me for a lesson using 'drive' as the training principal. This is quite energetic. I explained more than demonstrated when it came to the energetic stuff and discouraged doing so until the dog was better, as it presented quite lame. The owner told me it was Pano. I avoided working for fast recalls and the lesson was spent on more passive exercises.

In your opinion do you think I did the right thing? I was and still would not be comfortable about working a dog actively when it was showing such signs of soreness. Or was I being anal and it would have been ok to commence and continue the active training? My senses tell me "no" .....

To K&P - my apologies for the but back in that instance (this was quite a while back), I was unfamiliar with what Pano was.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Erny

[Elfin]

My old boy was diagnosed with Panosteitis by a veterinary specialist when he I purchased him at 5 months old.

Six weeks of lead walking, NSAIDs when needed, Ester-C daily and severely restricting his calorie intake saw him make a quick and complete recovery.

Best wishes for your dog, K&P.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Is it a case of forced rest for Pano dogs? Or is it ok for them to run around at will?

Force rest is not really necessary but if the dog is on pain killers, an owner should make sure the dog does not overdo it. The pain actually provides an important self limiting factor. You still want the dog to move as much as it is able.

I had a dog and its owner come to me for a lesson using 'drive' as the training principal. This is quite energetic. I explained more than demonstrated when it came to the energetic stuff and discouraged doing so until the dog was better, as it presented quite lame. The owner told me it was Pano. I avoided working for fast recalls and the lesson was spent on more passive exercises.

In your opinion do you think I did the right thing? I was and still would not be comfortable about working a dog actively when it was showing such signs of soreness. Or was I being anal and it would have been ok to commence and continue the active training? My senses tell me "no" .....

To K&P - my apologies for the but back in that instance (this was quite a while back), I was unfamiliar with what Pano was.

No problems Erny, I am happy for this to be a learning experience for more than just myself

My old boy was diagnosed with Panosteitis by a veterinary specialist when he I purchased him at 5 months old.

Six weeks of lead walking, NSAIDs when needed, Ester-C daily and severely restricting his calorie intake saw him make a quick and complete recovery.

Best wishes for your dog, K&P. ;)

Thanks for the best wishes. No NSAIDs so far, vet has limited her to light excercise but hasn't said to have her on lead in the backyard and she said she was happy to leave her on her current diet so see how we go.

Question for both Elfin and Espinay....in your experience with Pano did your dogs or dogs you know with it, have a really sore, stiff neck?? Because since I bought her home its become obvious that her neck is very sore and very stiff although a bit better now she has had her nightly pain killers.....can anyone shed light on this?? I will call the vet tomorrow and ask them and then probably try to get her in to see my Chiropractic Vet(but thats not covered by my insurance ) But it is certainly not something mentioned in the info the vet gave me or any research I have done personally...

Edited April 10, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Elfin]

My boy did not seem overly sore in his neck; he was generally sore all over, but had bi-lateral forelimb lameness.

Your Chiropractic vet (or a even vet that does acupuncture) would probably be very useful for your girl.

[Nekhbet]

Have you seen a chiropractor? If your dog is stiff in the neck it can be pinching nerves and reducing the signals to the legs. What state are you in we can recommend a good chiro to try out.

Your dog should not be eating palm seeds. What kind are they? It could be causing inflammation or gut cramps which can be misinterpreted. I find it weird your dog has a temp and bad constipation yet they say it's Pano - trust me I have owned cripple dogs and when they need to poo no amount of screaming joint pain will stop them. Are they sure it's not an itusesseption (intestines folding in on themselves) as they dont show up on x-rays ... or just a palm seed blockage?

Pano is usually accompanied by a protein reduced diet, what diet do you have your dog on currently? Unless you're feeding a high meat diet it's not going to be that bad to stop the dog defecating.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Nekhbet

[Keira&Phoenix]

Have you seen a chiropractor? If your dog is stiff in the neck it can be pinching nerves and reducing the signals to the legs. What state are you in we can recommend a good chiro to try out.

Your dog should not be eating palm seeds. What kind are they? It could be causing inflammation or gut cramps which can be misinterpreted. I find it weird your dog has a temp and bad constipation yet they say it's Pano - trust me I have owned cripple dogs and when they need to poo no amount of screaming joint pain will stop them. Are they sure it's not an itusesseption (intestines folding in on themselves) as they dont show up on x-rays ... or just a palm seed blockage?

Pano is usually accompanied by a protein reduced diet, what diet do you have your dog on currently? Unless you're feeding a high meat diet it's not going to be that bad to stop the dog defecating.

Hi Nehkbet, I am in QLD and I already see a fantastic Chiro/Vet - Rowan @ Animal Options so I am going to try and get her in to see him asap, I trust him implicitly and know he will do what is right for her and not his back pocket. I would have tried that first but did not realise it was her neck until yesterday afternoon after she had come home. Also it was Saturday afternoon when she started to look really off colour and he was closed by that stage (not to mention its is hard to get in to see him).

I know that (eating palm seeds) we do try and stop her (she is crated/penned when not being watched during the day) but they fall down onto an area which is rocks so it is impossible for us to pick them all up and the first thing she does is run over there to eat them when I let her out, I do stop her but she usually gets eat least one. Not sure what kind sorry, just off your regular palm trees. They did xrays of her tummy and were certain she had no blockage caused by the palm seeds just a build up of faeces. Fever is a part of Pano but I found it weird about constipation as well as I have a dog with hip displaxia and she has no dramas either. Not sure about the itusesseption...is there any way to find out if it is that??

She is on beef mince, chicken pet mince, offal mince, roo mince, chicken necks, tuna/salmon, some rump steak, some dry food and a raw egg per week. Not all of that in one week just depends on what is the cheapest or what we can get a hold of for that week. Usually for the week its 2 of the meats, 1 can of fish, dry food mixed in with each meal and an egg on one of the days. Maybe I will mix in some milk to soften up the dry food but only on the rare occasion.

I am going to be really angry if it isn't pano and is just a pinched nerve in the neck as it cost me almost $1000 when I picked her up yesterday, I will get it back on insurance but doesn't make it ok. It also isn't good to diagnose something that is incorrect, because only the Xray's really point to Pano. She said they squeezed her bones to see if they were painful and apparently she showed discomfort but didn't make any noise...I found that weird as well as she had been crying out for even the lightest touch (I now realise it was whenever she jarred or moved her neck)...so frustrating.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Keira&Phoenix]

Yay got her in to see Jenny @ Animal Options at 1 pm, hopefully will get some answers.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Ok so update - BTW Jenny at Animal Options is absolutely fantastic, exceptional vet/chiropractor and fantastic "bedside" manner. Explained everything in detail and at no stage rushed anything and she took notes on everything I told her, everything that Phoenix did including the fact that she was sooking. My trainers describe her as the House of the dog world (but with a much better temperament LOL)

Jenny felt her neck/spine and checked her over in general. Agreed that her neck was clearly very sore even with pain killers she was reluctant to move it. Gave her a gently readjustment and acupuncture. Basically she has said if we see a dramatic improvement in the next 24 hours she probably just jarred it, if not there may possible be a hairline fracture from a collision of some sort and that would require xrays to confirm. If that is not the cause worst case scenario is meningitis

At this stage she couldn't get a good temperature reading as the anti inflammatory's she is on will be bringing down her temp, so we have adjusted her medication so I can take her temp at home in the morning and if it is higher than 38.9 I am to contact them straight away...so no definite answers yet, fingers crossed for improvement by tomorrow afternoon so that no more vet visits are necessary or at least noting more than a few more visits to Jenny to get some more chiropractic work done.