JulesP Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 How bout this one? It's kinda relaxed not quite stationary tho Looks pretty relaxed. I think Corvus said she didn't mind if her dogs changed position as long as they were calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 How bout this one? It's kinda relaxed not quite stationary tho Looks pretty relaxed. I think Corvus said she didn't mind if her dogs changed position as long as they were calm. See why I use a tether? If they do that with a tether it's like an 'anxiety wrap' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) See why I use a tether? If they do that with a tether it's like an 'anxiety wrap' That's funny, Aidan. Vicki - does that dog exhibit those 'moves' on a (what do you call it?) "lead out" from the start line on a regular basis, or was it a one off? Edited April 12, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) my dog kind of looks like these in a stationary position I think I need to be more fussy Gah! Look at all those messy criteria! *has heart palpatations* I cracked up watching that guy pushing his dog down over and over again and the butt comes back up as soon as he takes his hands off, though. OT, but lately I've been messing around with teaching my dogs to crawl backwards. Not very successfully so far. I think I have the wrong breeds! ETA Erik does the most rigid down you've ever seen for his meals. He won't move a muscle, just hovers there staring holes through his bowl and drooling. He doesn't like it when I make him face away from his bowl. I'm cruel. But not as cruel as OH, who makes him hold it for several minutes before releasing him. Or there was that time I was watching TV and I was like "Why is Erik whining? Is he all right?" and OH who had been reclining next to me goes "Shit! I forgot to release him!" Edited April 12, 2011 by corvus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Gah! Look at all those messy criteria! *has heart palpatations* yep, it affects my heart too...makes it swell with pride & admiration. Horses for courses, but I love a dog who is so keen it can barely hold a stay...I dont think I'd ever be happy with anything else. I'm sure the dogs in the video are just like mine, totally relaxed when the opportunity to train with me is not on offer. I can't really think of a scenario where I'm training with my dogs that I want them totally relaxed. Edited April 12, 2011 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Horses for courses, but I love a dog who is so keen it can barely hold a stay...I dont think I'd ever be happy with anything else. I don't do agility so I have no idea what it takes to get the best from a dog in that sport, but I must say some of those handlers looked very frustrated. But I agree, not every stay is implicitly relaxed, and certainly not in that arena. When I mentioned my GSD before, this is what she looks like, but she knows she wouldn't be released if she crept forward or lifted her butt. Totally different situation because I'm holding the ball, tug or sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. This dog he display in the trait of prey drive, dominance and the active aggression for the bite pillow, but at the beginning he waiting for release beautiful calm in the dog then on release he drive in hard. When he win is rewards, you see dominance and active aggression on the prey hes tail up and growl on the pillow then out on command is beuatiful young Shepherd Dog, and is very intense for the pillow in his head you can see in the drive, but is very good example of the calm in the sit, but on the good Shepherd Dog is calm become part of the game for release, you dont teach him the calm, he's doing automatic and he learn that no calm is no release. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. This dog he display in the trait of prey drive, dominance and the active aggression for the bite pillow, but at the beginning he waiting for release beautiful calm in the dog then on release he drive in hard. When he win is rewards, you see dominance and active aggression on the prey hes tail up and growl on the pillow then out on command is beuatiful young Shepherd Dog, and is very intense for the pillow in his head you can see in the drive, but is very good example of the calm in the sit, but on the good Shepherd Dog is calm become part of the game for release, you dont teach him the calm, he's doing automatic and he learn that no calm is no release. Joe nice looking dog. Very shiny, black sheps are very pretty! Are you meant to give them the tug at the end? I kinda thought you were meant to keep in control of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Are you meant to give them the tug at the end? I kinda thought you were meant to keep in control of it? I haven't watched the video footage (yet) but you should give the dog plenty of 'wins'. If the dog never has wins, or even many of them, why would he bother or be enthused about playing the game. The key is that the 'game' is played by your rules. You start the game; you end the game. And the dog relinquishes the tug on command. The tug IS yours ..... your dog learns to work for it and understands YOU are what makes the tug 'alive'. And so the tug is not the dog's toy to have when you are not around. It only comes out when you are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Horses for courses, but I love a dog who is so keen it can barely hold a stay... There's barely holding a stay and then there's not holding a stay. Letting a dog creep forward when they are meant to be staying is messy criteria on the trainer's part. I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on how keen the dog is. Erik is very keen about a lot of things, but when I say down, to me that means no inching forwards, no squirming, no raising the butt, crawling backwards or getting up and walking forwards for pity's sake. Because that's what I consider a down, that's the down Erik habitually performs regardless of how keen he is. As far as relaxation goes, I decided there certainly were times I wanted Erik more relaxed in training when I tried to teach him to offer a paw for nail clipping. He'd sit there like a coiled spring and the moment I looked like I was going to cue him to give me his paw he'd leap to his feet and slap his paw into my hand and practically quiver waiting for me to mark and reward. It was very silly. I just didn't want to be cutting the nails of a dog that may explode at any moment. Also, "lie down" means stop running around barking every few minutes, lie on your bed, shut up, and preferably go to sleep. I did actually train that. Total relaxation was the aim. And the hysterical barking when we were preparing meals... I wasn't after total relaxation, but a lowering of arousal was fairly important. There are lots of interactions I have with my dogs where I just don't want them bouncing about looking like they might die of happiness if I tell them to do something. I guess that's why I'm not into traditional herding breeds. The relaxation protocol to me, though, is more of a general behaviour modification tool rather than a training tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. Joe Looks like calm low drive dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. Joe Looks like calm low drive dog. That's what I thought too, LL although the dog struck me as being "in drive" when released to the tug but not so much in drive in between times when the handler was asking for sit. Edited April 12, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Are you meant to give them the tug at the end? I kinda thought you were meant to keep in control of it? I haven't watched the video footage (yet) but you should give the dog plenty of 'wins'. If the dog never has wins, or even many of them, why would he bother or be enthused about playing the game. The key is that the 'game' is played by your rules. You start the game; you end the game. And the dog relinquishes the tug on command. The tug IS yours ..... your dog learns to work for it and understands YOU are what makes the tug 'alive'. And so the tug is not the dog's toy to have when you are not around. It only comes out when you are there. Yes, very good writing Erny for the folks understanding, I am liking your training thoughts is good Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. Joe Looks like calm low drive dog. This young German Shepherd Dog has very nice trait for working in the personal protection or police dog, very stable, beuatiful grip and dominance, much could be made from this dog in the training from what I can see in active aggression when he win the pillow easily trained into fighting drive, but then switch into family pet nice and relaxed. Reminds me of good young Czech line Shepherd I train many years ago, I am sucker for black shiny coat admitting my weakness for the black Shepherd too. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Incidentally, the relaxation protocol has been under discussion on the CU yahoo list in the last couple of days and a few people who learnt the protocol directly from Karen Overall have said it's supposed to be extremely flexible and when Overall describes telling the dog to sit, she doesn't actually mean give the dog a sit command. She means that people should talk gently to their dogs throughout the protocol. It reads like giving the dog known cues to people from a training background, but it shouldn't be practised like a training exercise, and they try to keep all markers and other indications to the dog that they are training out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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