Off-lead Recall

[kdf]

Dallas and I are in level 4 in our obedience class. We're doing off-leash heelwork, sit stay, down stay, and he's fine in everything except recall.

He will come straight to me if it's a short recall but if I'm at a distance where he can get up to any sort of speed he will veer away at the last second and do a complete circle around me (maybe 10-15 metre diameter) then come and sit in front of me as he is supposed to. And does this in every recall now, always returning and sitting in front of me.

My instructor told me to practice with a fence or something behind me but he seems to love showing off in front of the class because whenever we practice alone he is always perfect

Any advice?

[caffiend42]

I saw my first ever whippett on teh beach last week - what a dude! Ran flat knacker straight at anything moving, then pretty much everything you've said but the sit - was brilliant as it was having so much fun!

Sorry no advice though, but I was impressed!

[FHRP]

Have you tried luring him in with food? Make sure he knows you have it before you leave him, call him in and put your hand out in front with the food and lure him straight into the sit??

My Whippet has a fantastic every day recall.. but can't get him off the sit in a formal one

Edited February 17, 2005 by FHR

[pgm]

Put a light line on the dog (a light piece of rope from the hardware store will do) maybe twenty feet or so. When he runs past just stand on the line, then when he has stopped just pick up the line and guide him into the correct position. You might have to do this for a couple of months until he gets into the habit of not running past.

[poodlefan]

PQM:

When he runs past just stand on the line, then when he has stopped just pick up the line and guide him into the correct position.

Or perhaps take him to the vet. With a light boned, long necked dog like a whippet running at speed and hitting the end of a 20ft line, there's quite a good chance you'll injure him.

Yet another training method I can't condone.

Edited February 17, 2005 by poodlefan

[PAX]

My dog used to do the same thing, fine on a short recall but had to do the big show off loop in the long recall. My dog loves Kongs, so i started with shorter recalls and as soon as he sat i would throw the kong then gradually built up the distance. You could use anything that your whippet loves........maybe a squeaky toy, food whatever. You just have to work out his favourite thing.

I used to own a whippet, they are one of my favourite dogs.

good luck

Lisa

[poodlefan]

Katie:

He will come straight to me if it's a short recall but if I'm at a distance where he can get up to any sort of speed he will veer away at the last second

I'd suggest you go back to the distance at which he fronts reliably and then work slowly out again, sounds like he hasn't quite got the idea yet. Reinforce the front with what ever motivates him.

[ninaandted]

Poodlefan: Or perhaps take him to the vet. With a light boned, long necked dog like a whippet running at speed and hitting the end of a 20ft line, there's quite a good chance you'll injure him.

Yet another training method I can't condone.

N&T: Don't worry poodle fan - the owner is usually the one punished with this one!! I was advised the same thing with my old JRT. we used a body harness because I was worried about the neck thing too. turned out I should have been more worried for myself. I was the one who ended up with a rope burn because I was a dumbo and held the rope in my hand while she took off

Edited February 17, 2005 by ninaandted

[Kavik]

Diesel has been great with recalls, but he did this to me last week! So embarrassing, he came in and then decided to run off and have a play elsewhere at the last second! I ran the other way and he decided to see what I was doing, so he came in the end!

I am now going back to shorter distances for formal recalls and making sure he is in the right position with food. I am also doing come-fores once again to get the right position and eagerness. I practice my real life recalls when he is distracted by a scent on walks, I call him and go backwards (or run if trying to improve his speed). This week he was much better, we tried a shorter distance, he came into the front position perfectly. At 12 months he was just seeing what he could do

[pgm]

PoodleFan: I'd suggest you go back to the distance at which he fronts reliably and then work slowly out again, sounds like he hasn't quite got the idea yet.

pgm: you see the difference between my approach and your own. From the same description you interpret the dog as dumb and in need of further revision. Whereas I see an example of a rather intelligent, inventive little fella simply having a bit of fun, playing the goat and having a lend of his handler.

Your approach to my mind is condescending and lacking in respect for the dog's intelligence.

[sidoney]

It's a philosophical divide. One that may have no definitive proof either way.

As I have maintained earlier, to see the dog as needing clarification and further training is potentially less dangerous and less punitive than to see the dog as deliberately misbehaving.

[pgm]

Sidoney: "to see the dog as needing clarification"

pgm: that is precisely what the correction is meant to provide - 'clarification'. It has nothing whatsoever to do with punishing misbehavior.

[kdf]

He's only just 2 years old and really friendly and energetic, class is really fun for him. I personally think he may just be having fun because does the circle but always comes right in and sits in front of me with a wagging tail and a grin on his face. I believe he does know what he's supposed to do because he does actually do it, just with a slight detour in the middle

His recall is good out of class, I take him to the river in summer and he always comes without fail. And at a friend's bbq this summer he came to me every time I called even with 4 other whippets, a kelpie and 2 GSD X's running around.

It's a bit hit and miss to decide what distance is too far for him to come right in because it doesn't take long for him to get a little speed 20 feet wouldn't be long enough for the rope thing because at that distance he will come straight in 100% of the time I'm not sure it would work so well at longer distances (maybe too much rope to handle).

I do have some small food treats with me as we just started training again but maybe packsapunch has an idea with the squeaky toy. I might ask my instructor if I could do that.

Thanks for all the help. My next class is Wednesday so I'll see what happens and report back

[sithspawn]

i think the suggestion of starting from where he is reliable and slowly moving back out is the best suggestion so far. This isnt implying that the dog is dumb at all, merely that he isnt quite understanding what you mean when you recall him from a distance. Perhaps he isnt making the connection that s hort recall and a long recall are the SAME exercise, and if he has been rewarded for doing it, a long recall entails doing a little loop at the end.

[Nadia]

He is simply being a WHIPPET, they love to do laps, the sheer joy of running is what they love.

Do you allow him to stretch his legs off lead before training? A few fast laps somewhere safe before he has to work.

It may help.

I would never put him on a longline, sorry, too dangerous.

[Kavik]

I think longlines are useful in the transition from on lead to off lead recalls, but I would gather the lead as the dog comes in (and lure in to front if necessary) so that there is not a lot of slack when the dog comes close, in case it tries to run off. This way you minimise the chance of the dog running off, and it can't go far, so there will not be a big jerk on the lead.

[kdf]

He is simply being a WHIPPET, they love to do laps, the sheer joy of running is what they love.

Do you allow him to stretch his legs off lead before training? A few fast laps somewhere safe before he has to work.

It may help.

He is exercised normally on training days. I could do a little more I guess, see how that goes.

Although we do train right next to the Greyhound track... :rolleyes:

[capanash]

We aquired a mature dog who had never been allowed to run off lead, and would not come back. Our smart older dog solved the problem for us. When we called "come", the older dog ran after the young one , grabbed his collar and brought him back to us! It didn't take the new boy very long to learn what come meant. Poodle are just too smart.

[poodlefan]

PQM:

pgm: you see the difference between my approach and your own. From the same description you interpret the dog as dumb and in need of further revision. Whereas I see an example of a rather intelligent, inventive little fella simply having a bit of fun, playing the goat and having a lend of his handler.

Your approach to my mind is condescending and lacking in respect for the dog's intelligence.

Actually PQM, you have misinterpreted my advice, it has nothing to do with the dog's intelligence and EVERYTHING to do with the training. When something goes wrong in training, I look first to the HANDLER to see if that is where the error lies whereas your approach is to place the responsiblity for non-performance on the dog.

My advice was based on the fact that the handler says the dog was reliable for a short recall but the loop got added when the distance got further out. I take this to mean that the dog has not learned that the recall means 'come sit in front of me REGARDLESS of how far you run'. By taking it back to where the dog was reliable and slowly increasing distance I am training the dog to succeed and not to fail.

To 'correct' the dog in the way you suggest puts all the onus on the DOG for making a mistake while assuming none as the handler. Not my style. This is a dog that is learning, not a trained dog.

I seriously would not stand on a long line for a dog that is probably running in excess of 40 km an hour and with a breed that frequently suffers from broken limbs due to accidents whilst running at speed. The minimum result from doing this to a whippet will be that the dog would somersault in mid-air when the brakes were applied. I respect the dog too much to risk permanent injury or death from such a 'correction'. I certainly don't see it as a response to a dog 'having a bit of fun'. I would be even less willing to do it with a breed for whom ANY recall is a big plus.

Believe me PQM, I know when a dog is blowing me off - and I blame myself and not the dog when it happens. I just don't see harsh physical corrections as an appropriate response to my own training short comings.

Edited February 21, 2005 by poodlefan

[pgm]

PoodleFan: I look first to the HANDLER to see if that is where the error lies whereas your approach is to place the responsiblity for non-performance on the dog.

pgm: I see the whole point of training as a gradual passing of responsibility from handler to dog. I am not interested in controlling the dog - I am interested in teaching the dog self-control.

As to where the error lies, of course one should look first of all to the handler. But you seem unwilling to EVER place the responsibility with the dog. I can only go by the description that has been offered -

"My instructor told me to practice with a fence or something behind me but he seems to love showing off in front of the class because whenever we practice alone he is always perfect."

'Whenever we practice alone he is always perfect', suggests to me that the dog is perfectly aware of what is required. A correction is simply informing the dog (not punishing) that yes, even here in front of everbody, you are still required to perform correctly.

PoodleFan: This is a dog that is learning, not a trained dog.

pgm: if the dog was trained it would not require corrections. Corrections are part of the learning process. Nothing to do wth blaming the dog.