Thoughts?

[Red Fox]

So I finally found the perfect club. No paddock bashing, working towards the owners goal, flexibility, I don't have to let my dog play with the others if I choose not too, I can wind up the session when I'm ready (even after 5 mins) and not get a fithy look. I can use whichever reward suits my dog. Hell I can even say no to my dog if I want to.

The instructor is absolutely lovely, we are 100% on the same page.

The catch? The club is "run" by the local vet and my dog cannot attend unless he is vaccinated annually. No triennials and they will not accept titer testing :D

I'm devestated.

Now I'm not sure what to do about this? I won't be re-vaccinating, I'm happy to titer (at a cost of over $250!) yet they wont accept it.

As much as I'd like to have it out with the vet in question - my argument being that 1. my dog has had a prior reaction and his health comes first 2. The new AVA protocol refers to the "annual" vaccine and NOT the registered triennial (sorry, I dont care what your rep says) and 3. a titer PROVES immunity which IMO is superior to a vaccine that hasn't been proven effective - I don't feel I can.

The vet is the employer of the clubs instructor, she (instructor) has gone out of her way to speak to me and offer advice which I appreciate and I simply don't want to cause any trouble for her. Yes we are on the same page but unfortunately she doesn't call the shots.

I'm now feeling stuck. As I live in a rural area I don't have much choice :p

[SpotTheDog]

So I finally found the perfect club. No paddock bashing, working towards the owners goal, flexibility, I don't have to let my dog play with the others if I choose not too, I can wind up the session when I'm ready (even after 5 mins) and not get a fithy look. I can use whichever reward suits my dog. Hell I can even say no to my dog if I want to.

The instructor is absolutely lovely, we are 100% on the same page.

The catch? The club is "run" by the local vet and my dog cannot attend unless he is vaccinated annually. No triennials and they will not accept titer testing :D

I'm devestated.

Now I'm not sure what to do about this? I won't be re-vaccinating, I'm happy to titer (at a cost of over $250!) yet they wont accept it.

As much as I'd like to have it out with the vet in question - my argument being that 1. my dog has had a prior reaction and his health comes first 2. The new AVA protocol refers to the "annual" vaccine and NOT the registered triennial (sorry, I dont care what your rep says) and 3. a titer PROVES immunity which IMO is superior to a vaccine that hasn't been proven effective - I don't feel I can.

The vet is the employer of the clubs instructor, she (instructor) has gone out of her way to speak to me and offer advice which I appreciate and I simply don't want to cause any trouble for her. Yes we are on the same page but unfortunately she doesn't call the shots.

I'm now feeling stuck. As I live in a rural area I don't have much choice ;)

Hey SecretKei, that's a real pity.

However I still think you can have a conversation about this with the vet without necessarily having a fight about it.

Unless the vet is a difficult human being (which does happen sometimes to be fair), I think you should book an appointment for a checkup and a conversation about vaccinating, and explain your concerns. There should be no barriers to civil and reasonable discourse unless he's a very argumentative person (or you - are you a very argumentative person?! :p )

You've obviously done your research on this. Come at him from a scientific angle and support your concerns with the facts of your dog's past history reactions to vaccination. I have two cats here who I won't be vaccinating again. They had their kitten shots and reacted worse each time. If I were to vaccinate them with an F4 or F5 shot now, I'd have to do it on a weekday and book a veterinary appointment in advance for the following morning, at which point I know they'll need an anti-inflammatory painkiller and an anti-histamine shot. My yard is cat-proofed so they don't roam, and when I go away I pay a daily housesitter so they don't have to be kennelled.

However I brought it up with my vet and explained my concerns, and they agreed to work with me on it if I ever wanted to try again. They even offered to break the vaccine into component shots to be administered on consecutive days so we could identify precisely what was causing the reaction. It's good to know I have that option if my circumstances change and I have to vaccinate the cats due to travel or boarding or a higher chance of encounters with other cats.

Bring both of your concerns to your vet - both the clinical issue around the vaccine, and the unforutnate knock on effect that has on your opportunity to train at the truly excellent dog club (and hey, big-up the club and praise the trainer to the vet as you've done here - everyone likes to hear it when their business is doing a good job). You may find the vet agrees to the titre testing to fit within the club rules, or works something else out with you.

Just remember to play the game. Don't have this conversation over the phone, because if you do, you're depriving the vet of both the money for the vaccines and the money for his time on the phonecall. If you do this during a consult, you're basically paying him to have the conversation with you - and I assume the training class isn't free, so you're also paying him to talk to you about the options around you spending more money with his business, essentially.

Oh - and don't say "I've read on the internet..." when speaking to anyone clinical in any area of human or animal medicine if you want them to do something for you. Not ever. Nah. /shakes head furiously.

[Vickie]

If you don't want to have it out in person with the vet, how would you feel about an email or letter?

Seems like your case is perfectly valid. Who knows, once the vet finds out your dog has had a reaction to vac in the past they may be more than willing to make an exception. Can you get a letter from the vet who treated your dog fir the reaction?

[Red Fox]

Yes I have been considering an email. Just dont want to upset the applecart so to speak.

I also have the flu quite badly at the moment, so it wont be happening until I am back to being normal and not a sobbing shaking mess :p

To be flatly honest, I think I'll be rejected (from training) regardless of how well I argue the point. Rules is rules, this is the way WE do things, etc. Plus I can see how allowing an 'unvaccinated' dog to attend club training could open up a big can of worms for the vet/club.

I suppose what I find the most frustrating is that the 'risk' would be to MY dog (as the unprotected one) and a titer shows immunity (well as best we can determine from what we know) where a vacc card does not. The dogs also train in a public area where I have no doubt unvacc dogs visit from time to time. Am I missing something here :D

I don't use this particular vet as they are in another town. Perhaps I will just make an appointment to discuss it with her, can't hurt I suppose... Though I know as soon as the door closes behind me my confidence will fly out the window and the 'vet knows best' mentality creeps back in.

I have discussed titer/limited vacc with my regular vet so no probs there.

[poodlefan]

I'd be looking at my budget and maybe doing private lessons with the instructor you like.

[julesluvscavs]

I've just joined an obedience club and iv'e had to get Joey vaccinated to be able to attend (something which i am personally against.. doing it every year i mean)

They have a form that you have to sign to take full responsibility.. and you have to prove otherwise if you have had something alternative done and sign it too.

He had the 3 yearly one, and surprisingly he didn't react to it in any way as he has had with past vaccinations. (same with Renae). They said they are using a different brand now as the previously ones they did have issues with.

I'm still not happy about it all, but I couldn't see anyway around it if I wanted to take him, and I do.

[Red Fox]

I'd be looking at my budget and maybe doing private lessons with the instructor you like.

PF I have asked :p

We will certainly catch up if time and distance permit (we are actually quite a drive away and the club is in the middle if that makes sense). Admittedly yes I can do most things outside of a club (as I have for the past 2 years), can perhaps find someone to help with footwork also. But I'm not convinced I can match the club in terms of building focus and confidence around other dogs? There are no dog parks here so that's out.

I have queried whether I could train on the lawns outside of the enclosed area where the club trains (when training is in progress) and the answer was no. Reason given that the club also rent this part of the facility along with the fenced area. Fair enough.

Trialling will be a whole other issue... I feel like :D

[Red Fox]

Jules♥Cavs'

Health comes first for me sorry. I've dabbled with the idea of just doing it but I can't. My last dog died of cancer at 6 years old, 2 years ago my cat was at the stage where we were considering PTS (vomitting, couldn't walk - considering FHR at the time too, coat was shit, no muscle tone. I stopped vaccinating him in 2008 and within 12 months the change was nothing short of amazing. He's back to scaling 6ft fences with ease..

I feel very strongly on this issue.

[julesluvscavs]

Jules♥Cavs'

Health comes first for me sorry. I've dabbled with the idea of just doing it but I can't. My last dog died of cancer at 6 years old, 2 years ago my cat was at the stage where we were considering PTS (vomitting, couldn't walk - considering FHR at the time too, coat was shit, no muscle tone. I stopped vaccinating him in 2008 and within 12 months the change was nothing short of amazing. He's back to scaling 6ft fences with ease..

I feel very strongly on this issue.

I do too and understand, and I even feel guilty that I have had them both done just to satisfy them :D

They hadn't been done for about 5 years.

Its a wonder we don't have to prove as members that we have had up to date vaccinations for ourselves etc !!

[julesluvscavs]

Hugs to you SK ..

[stormie]

Unfortunately he's within his right to request whatever vaccine regime he likes. Sucks :D

Is the vet who runs this, your regular vet?

[OSoSwift]

Did you say they don't accept trienniels or that you don't want to give trienniel vaccine?

What about if your regular vet gives you a letter stating that you have had the titre done and it is at anacceptable level and therefore due to past vaccine reaction they have recommended in your dogs particular case that you do not vaccinate for health reasons?

Can you meet the trainer for training just after the lessons have finished so one the same day, but after their rental of the oval is up, or is there another area you can go to??? If you know people from the club are they happy to meet up afterwards and reconstruct a similar atmosphere?

I guess at the end of the day if they are totally against everything you can't argue with stupid!

[Red Fox]

Jules♥Cavs'

Health comes first for me sorry. I've dabbled with the idea of just doing it but I can't. My last dog died of cancer at 6 years old, 2 years ago my cat was at the stage where we were considering PTS (vomitting, couldn't walk - considering FHR at the time too, coat was shit, no muscle tone. I stopped vaccinating him in 2008 and within 12 months the change was nothing short of amazing. He's back to scaling 6ft fences with ease..

I feel very strongly on this issue.

I do too and understand, and I even feel guilty that I have had them both done just to satisfy them

They hadn't been done for about 5 years.

Its a wonder we don't have to prove as members that we have had up to date vaccinations for ourselves etc !!

Aww dont feel bad at all. If it had been 5 years for Kei I would certainly be considering it. He's only 13 months past his last booster though

[Red Fox]

Unfortunately he's within his right to request whatever vaccine regime he likes. Sucks

Is the vet who runs this, your regular vet?

He is a she

And no, not my regular vet. But yes this club comes under their name, their business. So of course their say is final. And that's fair.

...unless I can change her mind. But doubtful given that she was not receptive to titer as it's "not their policy".

[Red Fox]

Did you say they don't accept trienniels or that you don't want to give trienniel vaccine?

I would need to double check but no I dont wish to give a trienniel for various reasons, including the chance of reaction. I spoke this over with my vet 13 months ago when we boosted. Choices were Parvac only, trienniel, titer, nothing or a C3 with anti hystamine. We went for the last option with plans to titer sometime this year.

What about if your regular vet gives you a letter stating that you have had the titre done and it is at anacceptable level and therefore due to past vaccine reaction they have recommended in your dogs particular case that you do not vaccinate for health reasons?

Excellent idea. I will do this when I titer him. It can't hurt to have regardless.

Can you meet the trainer for training just after the lessons have finished so one the same day, but after their rental of the oval is up, or is there another area you can go to??? If you know people from the club are they happy to meet up afterwards and reconstruct a similar atmosphere?

I guess at the end of the day if they are totally against everything you can't argue with stupid!

Training lessons finish around 9pm on a weeknight OSS. I dont care to ask her to stand out on a cold winters night just for me

The instructor herself is lovely but it's not her call.

[OSoSwift]

Ahh no worries,

Yep that is late to be staying out at night!! Ours is on a Saturday afternoon

[Flick_Mac]

Have you considered having the Kennel Cough vaccine done annually? I'm on the 3 yearly schedule now, but my dogs will be getting the KC vax as it doesn't have the same period of protection. (This is the one that goes up the nose). Maybe they would accept a KC vax?

My regular vet has written on my vax certificates "next vaccination due in 2013 as per the AVA recommendations" or something like that in case they're required to go into boarding facilities. Apparently this should be enough for them to be accepted, but I don't plan on boarding them so who knows!

[Erny]

What about putting to the Vet the points you've raised AND adding to that, that given it is your dog that is (theoretically) at risk, you'd be ready, willing and able to sign a waiver to say that you won't hold them accountable should your dog pick up any of the diseases for which a C5 covers. Quickly add in that you would very much appreciate their agreement because you really feel very comfortable with this club and enjoy the instruction the instructor gives.