Reasons To Desex A Male Dog

[poodlefan]

oops double post

Edited April 7, 2011 by poodlefan

[Gayle.]

If the elderly gentleman can't control his dog on a walk, he's got very little chance of having the skills to train it to ignore it's natural instincts.

Desexing the dog will at least take those natural instincts out of the equation.

[Leelaa17]

Quick question....... whats wrong with early desexing? I mean desexing at around 6 months... I thought that was ok? My GSD male was desexed at 6 months and is reasonably calm. He isnt fat either. He is extremely lean and muscley for a GSD (his legs are muscley anyway)... I have never had a problem with his eating (he is a grazer - which i KNOW isnt good but when I tried getting him to eat at specific times he started to not eat altgoether... now I have set times I feed him and I sit there with him to watch him eat - hes getting much better!)

So... yeah.. I didn't realise early desexing was bad? I wish I had known that before aq couple of weeks ago.

[hortfurball]

Poodlefan, I don't think prey drive can be considered in the case of this dog as he is a large boy. He may indeed have trouble with other entire males if he stays entire himself.

Dog shows are a different world. Your average owner doesn't have a perfect example of their breed, most of them are probably byb and there are a lot of mutts around. A realistic estimate of those who know how to correctly train their dog? Who knows? I think DOL represents a small portion of dog owners, and even some of us struggle.

In my experience, having had a large entire male, if I could do it over, I would have had him desexed.

1. Other large entire males seemed to always go for him, to the point where he ended up reactive/fear aggressive. This probably had a lot to do with body language. It could be nasty for an elderly man to have a fight on the end of his leash but if Browny's body language is good and he seems to get on well with other dogs this may not be an issue in this case.

2. Bitches in heat did affect him. Sometimes he would howl and he always moped and went off his food. This was a real issue for me in his later years when I needed him to eat so he didn't throw up his heart pill.

3. On the few occasions he did get out of the yard, he was off! I don't know enough to say whether this was directly a result of being entire but it's likely.

4. He developed testicular cancer in his later years. It didn't kill him, but it was too late in life to desex as he already had the heart condition, In addition to causing him some discomfort, it was unsightly.

5. As Spotthedog pointed out, registration cost about 5 times the amount for an entire dog compared to a desexed dog. I have no experience with pound collection fees.

[poodlefan]

Poodlefan, I don't think prey drive can be considered in the case of this dog as he is a large boy. He may indeed have trouble with other entire males if he stays entire himself.

Dog shows are a different world. Your average owner doesn't have a perfect example of their breed, most of them are probably byb and there are a lot of mutts around. A realistic estimate of those who know how to correctly train their dog? Who knows? I think DOL represents a small portion of dog owners, and even some of us struggle.

Neither does your average exhibitor. The point I was making is that sexual entirity isn't automatically analagous to aggression. If the issue is at the owner end of the leash then a surgical solution to the problem isn't going to be very effective.

In my experience, having had a large entire male, if I could do it over, I would have had him desexed.

1. Other large entire males seemed to always go for him, to the point where he ended up reactive/fear aggressive. This probably had a lot to do with body language. It could be nasty for an elderly man to have a fight on the end of his leash but if Browny's body language is good and he seems to get on well with other dogs this may not be an issue in this case.

2. Bitches in heat did affect him. Sometimes he would howl and he always moped and went off his food. This was a real issue for me in his later years when I needed him to eat so he didn't throw up his heart pill.

3. On the few occasions he did get out of the yard, he was off! I don't know enough to say whether this was directly a result of being entire but it's likely.

4. He developed testicular cancer in his later years. It didn't kill him, but it was too late in life to desex as he already had the heart condition, In addition to causing him some discomfort, it was unsightly.

And in your situation, desexing would probably have been a good idea. BUT (and its a big but)...

Not every entire male is a handful and desexing doesn't guarantee no aggression, no fence jumping, no roaming and no cancer (except of the testicles for obvious reasons).

5. As Spotthedog pointed out, registration cost about 5 times the amount for an entire dog compared to a desexed dog. I have no experience with pound collection fees.

Do you think the kind of owner who doesn't consider obeying desexing laws obeys registration ones? Personally I reckon the Pareto principle probably applies as equally to dog owners as it does to anything ie:

Local government spend 80% of their animal welfare budgets on the 20% of owners who are irresponsible/ignorant or indifferent (or all of those). If that's the case, then taking a broad brush to these issues will be ineffective. Passing new laws about desexing will see the responsible comply and the rest ignore them.

[Diva]

There are people who have had problems with entire dogs, and people like me who have had multiple entire large and very large breed males, including several at the same time, without a problem.

No aggression, no roaming, no indoor marking, no testicular or prostate problems.

If there is a chance the guy's yard is insecure, it looks like the dog might be bred from or is a fence jumper or seems to attract aggressive responses, or is a general PITA even, then desexing is worth a go. But it isn't by anymeans assured of improving behaviour and I'd be reluctant to push an operation on an owner who doesn't want it unless there is a real benefit to him.

Good on you for helping the guy though.

Leelaa, desexing your dog at 6 months was probably fine. Most breeders of large breeds, and dog sport people too often, would prefer not to desex until the growth plates have closed. There is a relationship between hormones and growth, and an earlier desexed dog can grow taller, have less muscle and be more prone to some health problems. But he is probably not going to have any issue and you shouldn't worry. Really early desexing is done as young as 8 weeks.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Diva

[Leelaa17]

There are people who have had problems with entire dogs, and people like me who have had multiple entire large and very large breed males, including several at the same time, without a problem.

No aggression, no roaming, no indoor marking, no testicular or prostate problems.

If there is a chance the guy's yard is insecure, it looks like the dog might be bred from or is a fence jumper or seems to attract aggressive responses, or is a general PITA even, then desexing is worth a go. But it isn't by anymeans assured of improving behaviour and I'd be reluctant to push an operation on an owner who doesn't want it unless there is a real benefit to him.

Good on you for helping the guy though.

Leelaa, desexing your dog at 6 months was probably fine. Most breeders of large breeds, and dog sport people too often, would prefer not to desex until the growth plates have closed. There is a relationship between hormones and growth, and an earlier desexed dog can grow taller, have less muscle and be more prone to some health problems. But he is probably not going to have any issue and you shouldn't worry. Really early desexing is done as young as 8 weeks.

8 weeks???? thats ridiculous! I have never heard of a dog being done that early!

well im glad that it seems to be ok! I would never forgive myself if he got sick because of me desexing him early!

[~Anne~]

There are people who have had problems with entire dogs, and people like me who have had multiple entire large and very large breed males, including several at the same time, without a problem.

No aggression, no roaming, no indoor marking, no testicular or prostate problems.

If there is a chance the guy's yard is insecure, it looks like the dog might be bred from or is a fence jumper or seems to attract aggressive responses, or is a general PITA even, then desexing is worth a go. But it isn't by anymeans assured of improving behaviour and I'd be reluctant to push an operation on an owner who doesn't want it unless there is a real benefit to him.

Good on you for helping the guy though.

Leelaa, desexing your dog at 6 months was probably fine. Most breeders of large breeds, and dog sport people too often, would prefer not to desex until the growth plates have closed. There is a relationship between hormones and growth, and an earlier desexed dog can grow taller, have less muscle and be more prone to some health problems. But he is probably not going to have any issue and you shouldn't worry. Really early desexing is done as young as 8 weeks.

8 weeks???? thats ridiculous! I have never heard of a dog being done that early!

well im glad that it seems to be ok! I would never forgive myself if he got sick because of me desexing him early!

Desexing at 8 - 12 weeks is very common in rescue, moreso with kittens than puppies.

[Gayle.]

One of my dogs was desexed as a baby puppy. She came to me as a rescue albeit with a pedigree and via her breeder. He desexed all puppies that aren't going to be shown or bred from before they go to new homes. He is not the only breeder who does this, the lady who bred my first Aussie also does although our pup came to us entire on the proviso he was neutered as soon as possible.

[Shaar]

I had my 12 month old poodle neutered when I found out I would be getting an entire male.

He is the sweetest natured dog anyway but I wanted to have them running together so got him fixed just as a precaution.

There is no guarantee it would help but for me that small chance was better than nothing.

They have been living together for over a year with no problems at all.

He also used to drive my female poodle CRAZY after she had a bath and get himself rather "worked up". That has completely stopped.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Shaar

[Leelaa17]

ohhh. Yeah I think I had heard something about kittens getting done very early - isnt that dangerous because they are so young?? or am i just oblivious?

[ophnbark]

We have a de-sexed male who still mates and ties with our bitches and goes absolutely stupid if one of them is in season. He was neutered at eight months of age and still thinks he is an entire male and he is now 12 years old. Being neutered quite often makes no difference to the dog at all.

[~Anne~]

ohhh. Yeah I think I had heard something about kittens getting done very early - isnt that dangerous because they are so young?? or am i just oblivious?

For me personally, it comes down to risk factors. In somecases, the risk of early desexing outweighs the other risks surrounding future welfare and or health and or surgery risks.

Each case should be looked at individually.

[Shazzapug]

One of my dogs was desexed as a baby puppy. She came to me as a rescue albeit with a pedigree and via her breeder. He desexed all puppies that aren't going to be shown or bred from before they go to new homes. He is not the only breeder who does this, the lady who bred my first Aussie also does although our pup came to us entire on the proviso he was neutered as soon as possible.

Have you noticed any difference in her growth say compared to your others that were desexed later? There are a growing number of Pug breeders desexing 8-12 weeks.

[jacqui835]

It is true that sometimes desexed and other entire males respond aggressively to my entire male, but I find that these are dogs that are a bit more highly strung/poorly behaved anyway, and imo, shouldn't be at the dog park. I often take my dog to the park, and he has no issues. I have had to confront other dogs to make them back off, and either they leave or I do, because I don't want to risk anything happening to my dog.

Well-balanced, well-trained dogs though are fine with him, and fortunately I now know a nice group of dogs, some entire some desexed for him to play with.

[Bartok]

I just think if not a show dog or a dog that is being used for breeding (by registered breeders)

Then desex it. The same with females

[Gayle.]

One of my dogs was desexed as a baby puppy. She came to me as a rescue albeit with a pedigree and via her breeder. He desexed all puppies that aren't going to be shown or bred from before they go to new homes. He is not the only breeder who does this, the lady who bred my first Aussie also does although our pup came to us entire on the proviso he was neutered as soon as possible.

Have you noticed any difference in her growth say compared to your others that were desexed later? There are a growing number of Pug breeders desexing 8-12 weeks.

she is very small compared to the others. The other three are all roughly the same size taking into account their gender and ages. My little desexed girl is considerably smaller than them to the point that she's often mistaken for a puppy.

That could be her parentage though. There is a large variety is sizes in Aussies although she is by far the smallest adult I've ever seen. It's like having a perpetual puppy, she is extremely cute.

[rubiton]

Havent read the whole thread but by desexing you take the dog off the target to steal as a 'breeding

animal and another big reason is to avoid it getting adenomas (spelling) benign growths under & around the tail that ulcerate and you must get them removed or they get infected - wont heal on its own. Its awful getting things like that cut off a very old dog when it could have been prevented with simply desexing.

I know not every male dog would get that but IM not ever risking it - every male dog will be desexed due to that that we ever get if its not already

[mr.mister]

ohhh. Yeah I think I had heard something about kittens getting done very early - isnt that dangerous because they are so young?? or am i just oblivious?

I am picking up my new kitten this weekend; she was desexed a week ago at about 10-11 weeks. This seems to be common practice amongst most registered cat breeders, though not all, so I assume the risks might be less for cats for some reason. They also bounce back incredibly quickly when it's done at that age because it's a miniscule operation. I'm also going to be showing my girl at cat shows so I also assume that early desexing doesn't have such a drammatic effect on structure - those are a lot of assumptions though.

[jacqui835]

Cats have a lot of very unpleasant habits as a result of being left entire - such as spraying, making lots of noise and increased fighting. I like my cats desexed as early as possible as a result. The other thing is, when dogs aren't desexed, it's true, they have a sex drive, but they also have pack drive which seems to cancel a lot of the bad points out (so long as you have a good pack structure and you're leader etc). Cats don't have this pack drive, they don't care about anyone else, and so if you leave them entire, there's nothing to counter their independence and urge to engage in undesirable behaviour etc.

It's also a lot harder to contain a cat, and so this can be quite dangerous for the animal. We have had our gate left open several times, and our undesexed dog hasn't even tried to leave because his urge I guess to be with the pack and to guard us is stronger than his urge to find a mate. On the other hand, when I was little and we had a male undesexed cat, he used to actually camp (hidden) near the doors and windows, and the second you opened one, he'd be gone.