corvus Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 For ourselves, OH and I generally buy free range eggs, free range chicken, free range pork, and organic beef and lamb when we buy meat. We buy sustainable fish species, and organic vegies and milk and yoghurt and organic/free range chocolate when we can get them. I have always felt a bit strange about abandoning attempts to be an ethical consumer when it comes to my dogs. It seems a bit hippy-ish to buy free range and organic for your dog. I've always been driven by trying to keep the cost of their food down. I didn't feel like I could afford to feed them free range meat. Recently, I've been questioning if that should be the driving force behind the decisions I make for my dogs. They don't have the capacity to be ethical, which always seemed like a good reason not to worry about it for them. It's a bit silly when I think about it, though. We're still killing animals to feed animals we just like having around. Are the animals that feed our pets somehow not entitled to the kind of life I prefer the animals that feed me have had? Do you feed your dog on free range or antibiotic free meat? Why/why not? Do they get sustainable fish species? Toys made of recycled materials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab_Rat Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 On the food side of things apart from their kibble they get human grade lamb mince and anything else I feed them is what we would eat - free range eggs, free range chicken/turkey wings..... Other bones, lamb or beef are just offcuts, so Im assuming they are derived from human grade meats. The fish they get are tinned sardines, not sure about the sustainability of them however!! Havent got to the recycle material toys, but their footies are recycled I feed them what I do because I think if I eat free range, hormone & antibiotic free foods then my dogs do too! After losing a dog to bone cancer I try my best to give them the best I can in regards to what I put into their bodies - food, vaccines, any other chemicals (drugs etc..) But I certainly wouldnt be judging those who feed "pet grade anything" or non organic or freerange...I am able to do what I do, others may not be so fortunate or just choose not to. We all do the best we can by our dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I dont think it is hippyish at all if your buying free range for your dogs. Your the consumer for both you and your pet and if you make the decision not to support certain farming practices for your own food, but then support them for items you buy for your dog, then thats quite self defeating. However if your just buying free range etc for the health benefits, then thats a nutrition choice. hehe I think you might be anthropomorphising your dogs as consumers with choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Nope, no and no They get the same eggs I eat, meat from pet food supplier and I buy the best quality toys that I can find, regardless of where they come from and what they are made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 corvus- freerange- fair enough .. it's how the animal is transported to, and killed at, the place of processing which always concerns me . Are all these freerange critters still piled into crates (chooks/rabbits) or onto trucks,yarded, forced up a race etc.. or hung on hooks while still alive, before being electrocuted or stunned or having throats cut? Honest query .. was just wondering if animals raised 'humanely' are spared the distress mass produced ones are.Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 corvus- freerange- fair enough .. it's how the animal is transported to, and killed at, the place of processing which always concerns me . Are all these freerange critters still piled into crates (chooks/rabbits) or onto trucks,yarded, forced up a race etc.. or hung on hooks while still alive, before being electrocuted or stunned or having throats cut? Honest query .. was just wondering if animals raised 'humanely' are spared the distress mass produced ones are.Does anyone know? As far as I know, they are not. The following rant is not at you, but at the frustration I feel towards the way we handle livestock in this country. Do I not buy free range because it doesn't meet my standards for an animal that has been treated humanely throughout its entire life? What choices do we have? All I can do as a consumer (apart from writing letters to members of parliament and so forth) is to vote with my wallet and do all I possibly can to encourage producers pursuing more humane practices. It is hard being an ethical consumer. Labelling is dreadful and there are no standards in place to ensure what we are told is actually what has occurred. Take "born free range" pork products. They are born in a paddock and then put in a barn for the rest of their short lives. I'm not sure if that's better or worse! In the end I buy it if it's that or intensively farmed pork, because I feel like in general it is a step forwards, even if an objectionable one. I think that perhaps if we try as consumers to send a message to producers that we care about how our food is treated, we can maybe hope for continued improvements. In the meantime, I guess we have to decide for ourselves if it is enough. To me, the alternative is not eating meat until I feel it is enough. I can do that, but I don't think my dogs can. I am constantly frustrated with the choices I am left with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 We use human grade meat for the animals - our butcher still buys animals out of the paddock so I know they are grass fed and not feedlotted. Our eggs are free range too as we both have issues intensive husbandry practises for chickes and beef/sheep. We eat little chicken or pork though when we can get paddock raised pork its a treat and we will take the whole pig or half if we can find some one to share. We refuse to buy yoghurt etc that is labelled halel we do not like the practise and will not support any product that uses ingredients derived from an animal killed in this way. We eat very little seafood as again we do not support the way these animals are killed - long lingering deaths and the killing of other animals accidentally in the process just doesn't do it for us. Unfortunately for most animals killed for human consumption they meet their end in an abaittoir which may not be all that pleasant though these days for cattle and sheep at least they try to stress them minimally. Chickens are a whole other issue and another reason we eat little chicken meat. Best death from my perspective is being able to kill them yourself quickly and cleanly without them knowing it is coming. Unfortunately not the end for most animals and the majority of people could not do it themselves anyway even if they had the space and the means to do so. We all do what we are comfortable with when it comes to eating animal products and feeding them to our pets. Some people's choices are more limited because of the money they have available to spend and that is OK too. We all have to get by. The one thing I really do not hold with are vegetarians trying to make their obligate carnivore pets (ie cats) vegetarian too. Seriously people get a different pet if you can't feed them meat or meat products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic.crocodile Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Agree with the bit about Vegetarianism. Have been a Vegetarian for 17 years and would never dream of forcing my pets to be Vegetarian, especially not cats who are obligate carnivores and (as is my understanding) actually starve to death on a Vegetarian diet. ~Happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong on that one~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Nope! Not free range at all, eat whatever is yummy to me. These things don’t phase me! I would and do eat free range if it tasted better but not if I don’t particularly care for the taste (I find free range chicken chewy!). Dogs eat human grade food, non free range. I buy whatever I think is suited to them during the week. They way I see it, I am a firm believer in fate! Bitty just happens to be lucky she was born a Bitty and is my beloved. So she will eat other animals lower on the food chain and so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) We use human grade meat for the animals - our butcher still buys animals out of the paddock so I know they are grass fed and not feedlotted. Our eggs are free range too as we both have issues intensive husbandry practises for chickes and beef/sheep. We eat little chicken or pork though when we can get paddock raised pork its a treat and we will take the whole pig or half if we can find some one to share.We refuse to buy yoghurt etc that is labelled halel we do not like the practise and will not support any product that uses ingredients derived from an animal killed in this way. Halal yoghurt is made from living animals not dead ones. Halal yoghurt is generally the stuff that does not contain animal derived setting agents like gelatine unless they can vouch for the fact that the animals were slaughtered according to halal practices - not easy. I'd consider that a good thing as pot set yoghurt doesn't need them. Edited April 4, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Nope. I would love to be able to buy free range, organic meat but financially it's just not an option for me, let alone for Orbit. I get his meat from a pet supply place/abattoir. I know they follow the with holding period guidelines etc for anything that's been medicated etc but I admit to not knowing how it's killed. I do know that the sheep, cows and horses are out grazing in the fields prior to being killed though, but I'm not sure about the chickens I get. In an ideal world, I'd be living on the land raising my own meat and growing my own food but unfortunately it's just not an option for me at the moment due to the cost of acreages in Sydney. I did just acquire my first hen though, so I will soon hopefully have organic eggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 We refuse to buy yoghurt etc that is labelled halel we do not like the practise and will not support any product that uses ingredients derived from an animal killed in this way. Halal yoghurt is made from living animals not dead ones. Halal yoghurt is generally the stuff that does not contain animal derived setting agents like gelatine unless they can vouch for the fact that the animals were slaughtered according to halal practices - not easy. I should have been clearer I was referring to yoghurt etc that contains gelatine (derived from Halal killed animals). As with most things looking at ingredient lists helps. We now make our own yoghurt and it contains no gelatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 So she will eat other animals lower on the food chain and so be it! I don't think corvus is saying Bitty should become vego! Rather, she is talking about how meat is sourced. Google some pics of mass produced chicken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 We refuse to buy yoghurt etc that is labelled halel we do not like the practise and will not support any product that uses ingredients derived from an animal killed in this way. We eat very little seafood as again we do not support the way these animals are killed - long lingering deaths and the killing of other animals accidentally in the process just doesn't do it for us. too. We all have to get by. The one thing I really do not hold with are vegetarians trying to make their obligate carnivore pets (ie cats) vegetarian too. Seriously people get a different pet if you can't feed them meat or meat products. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I try to, I'm a vego and hate a lot about our current food system. I try to go local yoghurt, free range egss, free range chicken for treats but usually we feed them scrap meat like frames, necks, soup bones, offcuts, offal. I figure they are the leftovers and noone is going to kill an animal for the leftovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) This thread is so funny. What does an ethical consumer for an animal mean? Do you ponder over that while you drink coffee and eat chocolate, Corvus? Or buy your computer and clothes made by a little kid in a third world country? Edited April 4, 2011 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Di* Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 For ourselves, OH and I generally buy free range eggs, free range chicken, free range pork, and organic beef and lamb when we buy meat. We buy sustainable fish species, and organic vegies and milk and yoghurt and organic/free range chocolate when we can get them. I have always felt a bit strange about abandoning attempts to be an ethical consumer when it comes to my dogs. It seems a bit hippy-ish to buy free range and organic for your dog. I've always been driven by trying to keep the cost of their food down. I didn't feel like I could afford to feed them free range meat. Recently, I've been questioning if that should be the driving force behind the decisions I make for my dogs. They don't have the capacity to be ethical, which always seemed like a good reason not to worry about it for them. It's a bit silly when I think about it, though. We're still killing animals to feed animals we just like having around. Are the animals that feed our pets somehow not entitled to the kind of life I prefer the animals that feed me have had? Do you feed your dog on free range or antibiotic free meat? Why/why not? Do they get sustainable fish species? Toys made of recycled materials? Yes, organic meats and veg for mine--also for ethical reasons. Luckily my 4 are all small. Di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 This thread is so funny. What does an ethical consumer for an animal mean? Do you ponder over that while you drink coffee and eat chocolate, Corvus? Or buy your computer and clothes made by a little kid in a third world country? You must be the most literal person on the planet. I reckon I could match that: Raz, most of my clothes are custom made with sustainable fibres and coloured with fibre-reactive, plant-based dyes, by people in westernised countries running small businesses out of their homes. I don't drink coffee, but only tap water from my stainless steel water bottle. My chocolate is fair trade and organic and I am usually thinking only of how good it tastes when I eat it. My computer was made in China, which is not exactly a third world country, and not by children AFAIK. I try to be an ethical consumer when it comes to products for me, but not so much when it comes to products for my dogs. Partly because it's hard to buy things like off cuts and chicken frames and know they were free range, and partly because it's costly. What I do think about over my tap water and fair trade chocolate is whether I can afford to be a more ethical consumer when I'm buying products for my dog, and whether other people have similar concerns. This thread would suggest some have. How freaking hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Dont roll your eyes at me, Corvy. I didnt roll my eyes at you. Are my dogs ethical consumers? No - dogs dont have ethics. You're supposed to be a scientist so formulate your question like one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 This thread is so funny. I don't think you need to claim any sort of moral high-ground to think about ethical choices. In fact, once you start thinking about it, it's very hard to claim the moral high ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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