Sensitive Tummies

[leopuppy04]

Hi Guys,

I have a 10mth old Aussie that seems to have a sensitive tum.... about a month ago she woke me up at about 5am and vomited constantly for about an hr before taking her to the vet, whereupon she was fine. Given a shot, and was fine ever since. Fed her on bland food for about a few days before re-introducing her normal foods.

A week later, she was sick again, just the once, still eating normally and no other ill effects at all.

This has been continuing since, whereby almost to the DOT every tues or wed she will be sick. There are NO similarities that I can find:

*It doesn't matter if she is fed raw, dry, bones etc - she will still be sick on those days

*She's an indoor dog and I'm confident that she is not getting into anything (she was crated all day yesterday and was still sick)

*other than last night, she is not depressed after being sick, nor is she off her food.

After much thought I thought maybe she just has a sensitive tummy to 'fresh' foods - what I mean is that usually when I train her, I sometimes use treats (devon, chunkers, 4 legs etc) that have been in the fridge for about 3-4 days. This would usually coincide with a Tues/ Wed due to my training schedule and the fact I usually have treats left over from the weekend/ our monday night training sessions. So I'm going to not use those treats unless freshly pulled out and defrosted from the freezer and see if there are any changes.

Anyone have experience similar to this? Should I be worried? Should I get bloods done if this continues??

She never had any problems prior to about a month ago where she had that night of being pretty crook.... but then I think that could be coincidence as I started to pull out a higher quantity of treats as I was training more and getting sick of pulling them out of the freezer every day so I would pull out treats enough for 2-3 days...

Thoughts?!

[JulesP]

Try feeding fresh chunkers/4 legs first or a different treat. Personally I like to use those foods within 2 days. They get pretty stinky after that.

[Guest english.ivy]

..

Edited March 31, 2011 by english.ivy

[Stitch]

What you have to understand is that bones ie. BONE MARROW = FAT

So a dog may be able to eat say BARF but if you also give raw bones then that may be enough to upset the gut.

Some dogs can't eat BARF, one of mine is like that, and she had to have Hills I/D for ages - I was then able to transfer her onto Hills Sensitive Stomach and no bones at all.

It is a matter of putting the dog on a bland diet that they can tolerate and then introducing different foods until you can isolate exactly what foods they can't tolerate.

Every dog is different so you just have to work out what works for your dog.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I would try using different treats and see if it helps...

[leopuppy04]

What you have to understand is that bones ie. BONE MARROW = FAT

So a dog may be able to eat say BARF but if you also give raw bones then that may be enough to upset the gut.

Some dogs can't eat BARF, one of mine is like that, and she had to have Hills I/D for ages - I was then able to transfer her onto Hills Sensitive Stomach and no bones at all.

It is a matter of putting the dog on a bland diet that they can tolerate and then introducing different foods until you can isolate exactly what foods they can't tolerate.

Every dog is different so you just have to work out what works for your dog.

She's fed on a BARF diet, but doesn't get any marrow bones - I hate the stuff .

Think I'll just keep trying various things. I haven't been able to isolate it to anything just yet - she's not been sick only off raw food or anything like that... am going to see if it's just the treats first.

[Stitch]

Yes you do have to experiment but remember ALL bones have marrow, including the ones that are ground up fine in the BARF mixes.

Sometimes even this amount of bone is enough to set off sensitive dogs - as I found out!

[Staranais]

*It doesn't matter if she is fed raw, dry, bones etc - she will still be sick on those days

*She's an indoor dog and I'm confident that she is not getting into anything (she was crated all day yesterday and was still sick)

*other than last night, she is not depressed after being sick, nor is she off her food.

I wouldn't be worried if she's still bright and happy. I'd make sure her worming is up to date, since it's possible for some GIT parasites to cause signs like this, and is a quick & cheap fix if that's what is going on. If it's worrying you, I'd be considering doing a bit of an elimination diet with her to see if there's anything in particular she reacts to (such as the treats, as you already suspect) - or if that doesn't work, even trying a novel/hydrolyzed protein diet to see if her issues resolve on that.

Has she got any skin issues?

[Staff'n'Toller]

I agree with Stitch, I have a dog here that just can't stomach any barf, however if it was the barf it should be a pattern you are seeing everyday or whenever you feed a certain protein.

Usually the next thing is faecal float and endoscopy- wherein they usually find nothing if it's IBD.

Perhaps you could talk to your Vet about treating for Giardia just to rule it out?

Maybe try some non fresh meat treats for a while? Liver and dried minnows for example?

[leopuppy04]

I wouldn't be worried if she's still bright and happy. I'd make sure her worming is up to date, since it's possible for some GIT parasites to cause signs like this, and is a quick & cheap fix if that's what is going on. If it's worrying you, I'd be considering doing a bit of an elimination diet with her to see if there's anything in particular she reacts to (such as the treats, as you already suspect) - or if that doesn't work, even trying a novel/hydrolyzed protein diet to see if her issues resolve on that.

Has she got any skin issues?

She's UTD with worming and we are going to try her on a probiotic for a little while and see if that helps. Could have just been a bad batch of raw too but I do doubt that.

No skin issues what so ever.

I agree with Stitch, I have a dog here that just can't stomach any barf, however if it was the barf it should be a pattern you are seeing everyday or whenever you feed a certain protein.

Usually the next thing is faecal float and endoscopy- wherein they usually find nothing if it's IBD.

Perhaps you could talk to your Vet about treating for Giardia just to rule it out?

Maybe try some non fresh meat treats for a while? Liver and dried minnows for example?

That's the thing - there is no pattern at all. She is fed BARF (mixed by myself) every morning and it's only 1 in every 7 that she will get ill.

Vet recommended probiotics for a week and see if that helps - clears out any ill bacteria anyway .

What's IBD?!

[poodlefan]

What did she vomit up. Was it bile? If it was, I wonder if the fat content of a particular meal triggers it.

If so, could be a precurser to something like pancreatitis.

Try feeding her twice a day also - some dogs seem to have better digestive systems if fed in that manner.

Edited March 31, 2011 by poodlefan

[Staranais]

Is it possible she's scavenging or getting into the trash prior to the occasions that she's had the vomiting?

If you don't train her one tues/weds, so she doesn't go in the car to training and she gets no treats, does she still vomit on those nights?

IBD stands for inflammatory bowel disease, basically where the gut associated immune tissue responds inappropriately to certain food molecules and causes chronic gut inflammation. Diagnosed definitively by both a biopsy & by excluding everything else that could cause GIT signs, so it's a long and expensive road getting a definite diagnosis for IBD. You can make a presumptive diagnosis by ruling out other possible causes of gut inflammation & the dog scoring high on the canine IBD index.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Staranais

[Erny]

Recently received an email from Dr Jean Dodds (USA) ....

Nutriscan Diagnostics - Coming Soon!

(for Dietary and Food Sensitivity Diagnostics)

I'm on the list for contacting once this is ready to rock and roll. I'm not sure I understand what it is about but assume it is a more refined way of finding out about what it is in our dogs' diet that is upsetting them. Would be great to have a short-cut for that .

Edited March 31, 2011 by Erny

[Staranais]

Recently received an email from Dr Jean Dodds (USA) ....

Nutriscan Diagnostics - Coming Soon!

(for Dietary and Food Sensitivity Diagnostics)

I'm on the list for contacting once this is ready to rock and roll. I'm not sure I understand what it is about but assume it is a more refined way of finding out about what it is in our dogs' diet that is upsetting them. Would be great to have a short-cut for that .

That looks very, interesting, Erny. I wonder how much it will cost, and how accurate it will be at predicting food substances that the dog reacts to? If it's only antibody based it could miss predicting cell mediated reactions to food? But could still potentially be a useful tool in the toolbox.

Could you please post more if you hear more?

[Erny]

But could still potentially be a useful tool in the toolbox.

That's what I figure too, Staranais.

Could you please post more if you hear more?

Certainly will .

And if it proves to help me with Mandela's ongoing investigations/issues and ever present effort to improve his health status, it'll end up on my list along-side Calendula Tea and Active Manuka Honey, lol .

[leopuppy04]

What did she vomit up. Was it bile? If it was, I wonder if the fat content of a particular meal triggers it.

If so, could be a precurser to something like pancreatitis.

Try feeding her twice a day also - some dogs seem to have better digestive systems if fed in that manner.

She's currently fed twice a day as are all of my dogs

Given she's 10mths old, I would be very suprised if it is pancreatitis as I would also suspect that it wouldn't be like 'clockwork' that once a week to the day she is sick, but that she would deteriorate rapidly.

My guys are all fed pretty lean meals. I'm quite particular about the fat content on the meats that they eat. In fact the fattiest meal they have is lamb necks and I don't think she's ever vomited after eating lamb...

Is it possible she's scavenging or getting into the trash prior to the occasions that she's had the vomiting?

If you don't train her one tues/weds, so she doesn't go in the car to training and she gets no treats, does she still vomit on those nights?

IBD stands for inflammatory bowel disease, basically where the gut associated immune tissue responds inappropriately to certain food molecules and causes chronic gut inflammation. Diagnosed definitively by both a biopsy & by excluding everything else that could cause GIT signs, so it's a long and expensive road getting a definite diagnosis for IBD. You can make a presumptive diagnosis by ruling out other possible causes of gut inflammation & the dog scoring high on the canine IBD index.

Thanks for the info on IBD ;).

No way that she is scavenging unless she can creep out of her crate, open the cupboard door, get into the trash, leave it exactly where it was, close cupboard door and get back into (and close) crate door

Not sure re: training question - only time will tell as I only thought about the training issue this morning