Dogs Working For Treats

[tlc]

Just thought I'd put this up for discussion to see what others think.

I had someone wanting to give my dogs a treat and that's fine, they asked and I said yes no worries but they must get them to do something first. My white girl Tully sits up and does a little beg trick before you even ask her to do it as she knows the treats coming, she is very eager to please and anticipates what you want her to do, usually I will get her to do a different trick each time she has a treat but for this occasion, the person with the treat ready to give seen her begging so she got the treat, then Lacys turn she got asked to sit and beg which she did and got the treat.

The other person there at the time said he thought it was demoralizing to the dogs to get them to beg for the food. I just said they don't have to beg, they can do anything I ask them as long as they did something I didn't care what it was. He still didn't agree with it.

I wasn't sure how to respond, I just said I use The nothing in life is free approach and they must work for thier food and treats. He still thought it was not the right thing to do. Now this is a man who has had dogs (working, cattle, sheep etc) and trained his dogs to do great things but he did not understand where I was coming from. Have things really changed that much? I just said my dogs do not go out in the paddock to work but they still need structure and guidance and what I do works or us!

Has anyone else encountered this type of thing before? Just curious to see what others think and how they may have responded in the same situation.?

[Staranais]

If he's into working farm dogs, he probably doesn't see the need for using treats. Most farm dogs either work for the love of the job, or they don't get kept. On a farm, a dog that had to get food rewards to work would simply not be kept.

For non-stock training, most farm dogs I know work for praise & attention (which is given rarely so is valuable to the dog), and to avoid punishment. Their obedience needs to be reliable but not flashy. Again, food rewards don't come into it.

Different strokes for different folks.

[anniek]

I totally understand - my girl is a real bossy boots and has to sit and "play the drums" for stranger treats. My old soldier is a little unsure of new people, especially those who go to pat him over his head. He can have a treat for just accepting a pat. When this happens with strangers, they seem to understand where I'm coming from because of the two very different personalities.

Must say though, that most people we have met have asked first if mine can have a treat, so they are already on my wave length, as they are carrying treats as part of their training program with their dogs.

Annie

[tlc]

I understand all that having grown up with with working dogs but also having pet dogs as well. I think I was a bit annoyed at the fact that with all his knowledge of dogs he didn't understand or agree with the principal of making a dog do something for its treat, to me it seems kind of black and white, but it did make me second guess what I do in terms of demoralizing the dog but when I though about it, especially with a dog begging, we know they are begging and to us beg is beg but to a dog begging is just another trick.

[tlc]

Thanks Annie, I find it depends where I am when, I take the girls to the hospital lots want to give them a treat and most don't know about getting them to sit etc first, they just shove the treat in their mouth, I have to get in first and tell them to ask the dog to do something first at the very least a sit. I don't want them to expect food willy nilly especially while we are there on a mission, I had originally decided no treats at the hospital but had to rethink my stratagy as some patients want to give the dog a little treat especially if they do some tricks to entertain them.

I find with having 4 if I am anywhere it really helps keep the peace especially if they are all being offered a treat together, I have taught them patience and to respect each others space while waiting for the food especially if it is coming from someone else, especially kids. My young nephew (9) has been doing trick training with my lot for a couple of years, just basic stuff but this has certainly helped with younger people giving treats.

[Greytmate]

How do you demoralise something that has no morals?

Your friend is anthropomorphising dogs. Unless he is interested in learning a little bit about how different training methods work, I would avoid the subject with him in future.

[stormie]

How do you demoralise something that has no morals?

Your friend is anthropomorphising dogs. Unless he is interested in learning a little bit about how different training methods work, I would avoid the subject with him in future.

This

[tlc]

I started to put across my point of view but knew it would be a waste of time, I like to listen to all points of view on a lot of different subjects and as staranais said different strokes for different folks. I find a lot of old school dog owners and trainers definatley haven't moved with the times or even try to understand how much dog training has changed.

[aussielover]

I often find that people think that it ridiculous to have to take treats to the park or that my dog isn't properly trained because i take treats to the park.

However, whose dogs end up running off and not coming back when called??? and whose dog ends up pretty much always coming back and doing what the owner says?.....

[Aidan3]

Every living creature in the history of evolution has had to do something to earn food. The exception is Paris Hilton, and look how that ended.

[The Spotted Devil]

Every living creature in the history of evolution has had to do something to earn food. The exception is Paris Hilton, and look how that ended.

So true

[megan_]

I started to put across my point of view but knew it would be a waste of time, I like to listen to all points of view on a lot of different subjects and as staranais said different strokes for different folks. I find a lot of old school dog owners and trainers definatley haven't moved with the times or even try to understand how much dog training has changed.

I never call them treats - I give my dogs food and it is part of their diet (I don't give schmakos etc).

I know people who feel that I spoil my dogs because they're getting food for working. I tell them that my dogs work for everything, I don't just plonk a bowl of food on the floor for them to eat it on 2 mins flat.

Your friend would think I'm a monster. I say it makes for happy, balanced dogs. If they were working all day it would be different but as pets, unless an owner makes a real effort their lives can be very boring.

[tlc]

I often find that people think that it ridiculous to have to take treats to the park or that my dog isn't properly trained because i take treats to the park.

However, whose dogs end up running off and not coming back when called??? and whose dog ends up pretty much always coming back and doing what the owner says?.....

I have a code word incase of emergencys for very fast recall and it s TREATS in a really high pitched voice and it works well, I must admit now that mine are older I don't always take treats it depends on where we are going.

Every living creature in the history of evolution has had to do something to earn food. The exception is Paris Hilton, and look how that ended.

:D

I started to put across my point of view but knew it would be a waste of time, I like to listen to all points of view on a lot of different subjects and as staranais said different strokes for different folks. I find a lot of old school dog owners and trainers definatley haven't moved with the times or even try to understand how much dog training has changed.

I never call them treats - I give my dogs food and it is part of their diet (I don't give schmakos etc).

I know people who feel that I spoil my dogs because they're getting food for working. I tell them that my dogs work for everything, I don't just plonk a bowl of food on the floor for them to eat it on 2 mins flat.

Your friend would think I'm a monster. I say it makes for happy, balanced dogs. If they were working all day it would be different but as pets, unless an owner makes a real effort their lives can be very boring.

You are so right! To me it just makes sense to get them to do something for thier food no matter how small, it does give structure and keeps them level headed.

[anniek]

I have a code word incase of emergencys for very fast recall and it s TREATS in a really high pitched voice and it works well, I must admit now that mine are older I don't always take treats it depends on where we are going.

I have one of those special "words" - used at the beach at rabbit time :D

Something very very special - and they get one trial run every time we get there, just so they know I have them.

With the hospital visits, it must give the residents so much pleasure being able to give treats to your dogs, so I do think that having them do little tricks (the pups not the residents) would give them pleasure too.

I also think that getting treats on their visits without having to work for them is ok, as they are actually being rewarded for being good therapy dogs. Maybe if the hospital is the only place they get treats without work then it would be ok?

Annie

[W Sibs]

For me... that's normal Both of mine knows food/treat is not for free.

Charlie is automatically sit and eyes on me waiting for a command. Emmy will start offering me every single tricks she knows to get a treat, then calms down and sits and focus on me to wait for the command to get the trick... she is a funny girl.

My 2 rarely takes treats from people, so if they do, usually they offer a sit straight away but i'm not fuss if that person don't make them work for it.

[sas]

Every living creature in the history of evolution has had to do something to earn food. The exception is Paris Hilton, and look how that ended.

She's worth more than 400 million....I'd take it!

[Staranais]

I'd say, look at his dogs. If you're impressed by their obedience and attitude, he obviously has something to offer, even if you don't like his methods or they're not appropriate for your dog or situation.

I don't take training advice from anyone anymore if I wouldn't want my dog acting like theirs!

[tlc]

I'd say, look at his dogs. If you're impressed by their obedience and attitude, he obviously has something to offer, even if you don't like his methods or they're not appropriate for your dog or situation.

I don't take training advice from anyone anymore if I wouldn't want my dog acting like theirs!

He doesn't have dogs any more he is 71 now (my step dad) his dogs were always well trained but he never used positive methods to get the behaviors he wanted, he is very much from the old school and none of his training methods I would use on my dogs, however his dogs never seemed submissive, scared or timid and were always well rounded.

[Leema]

Don't get me started!

Let me just say, that my "Clover at 14 weeks" (

) video caused a stir on a Border Terrier forum. All Clover's meals, at that age, was spent after she had done something. She got no 'free food'. I was considered abusive as I was 'not letting my dog eat in peace' and not letting 'my puppy be a puppy'. Strangely, it was actually quite a few people who held this viewpoint and I subsequently got banned from this forum.

[RallyValley]

Don't get me started!

Let me just say, that my "Clover at 14 weeks" (

) video caused a stir on a Border Terrier forum. All Clover's meals, at that age, was spent after she had done something. She got no 'free food'. I was considered abusive as I was 'not letting my dog eat in peace' and not letting 'my puppy be a puppy'. Strangely, it was actually quite a few people who held this viewpoint and I subsequently got banned from this forum.

How adorable is Clover! And how smart!!! What is she like now? Surely titled in sports?