Moved House - Vicious Dogs As Neighbours

[Sunnyflower]

My fiance and I moved house the weekend of the 19th/20th and we have moved into his parents second house that has a wonderful HUGE yard, 50m long and 15m wide so a cavaliers delight. As the fences are only 90cm high and we like to let our kitten out to play also we built a 1.6m high wire fence around the front part of the house and this is where we section Oscar off when we go out.

However the entire yard is his and he should be able to freely roam but as the neigbours to the left of us have two quite vicious staffies we have to sit out there with him so he can stretch his legs and have a play as these two dogs try scaling the fence to get to him and are trying to push the fence down. It's and old timber fence about 1.5m high and any normal dog it would be perfectly fine with but these guys are pushing on it to get at him and it makes me quite nervous.

I tried chatting with the lady who owns these dogs and basically her response was - "Well Charlie hates other dogs and I'm not sure if this fence will hold him in" and then she walked off.

Who has the duty of care here? Us or them? I know a barking dog that is just having a yak at the fence but this dog literally has that vicious bark where you can hear the saliva curdling in his throat. Oscar will remain in his little yard or in the house with us but it is just chicken wire as this is all our little guy needs. If these dogs manage to get over this fence they will definitely get through the chicken wire and to him. I understand they will totally be at fault if they enter our yard but my boy does not stand a chance!

What do we do? Is there anything we can actually do?

Apologies for the long winded story, I am needing advice as I am stumped!

Edited March 29, 2011 by Sunnyflower

[persephone]

What ann upsetting neighbour to find

I think it is up to you to ensure your dog is safe! if this means erecting a second solid fence inside the boundary... or building a separate yard.. then you may have to do it.

please also consider a cat run for your cat. For many reasons.

[Sunnyflower]

What ann upsetting neighbour to find

I think it is up to you to ensure your dog is safe! if this means erecting a second solid fence inside the boundary... or building a separate yard.. then you may have to do it.

please also consider a cat run for your cat. For many reasons.

Thanks Perse. Marcus's parents are looking into having the entire fenceline re done with Colorbond, it's just for the short term! We'll have to make the current fence line stronger!

Our kitten doesn't leave our yard and never did at our other house as it was all 1.8m colorbond. We haven't finished the fence and at the very top we are going to build out a little bit so he cannot jump up so essentially it is just a cat run that contains them both.

Marcus's parents have had this around their yard for 8 years with the high fences and their 2 Burmese and a Ragdoll have never got out. However he is only allowed out when we are home definitely not whilst we aren't there.

[Rysup]

If the fence is failing then I am pretty sure the neighbour has to pay half the cost. Contact your council for more information there though.

[SueM]

Get your new fence done as soon as possible, all it takes is a couple of loose pailings, I left it to late and one of my dogs was taken.

[sas]

At our last place my OH put in Star Pickets to hold up the fence and that worked well.

The Staffy may settle down soon, I've had a dog aggressive dog play up a treat when we moved house and then settled down with the neighbours.

I'd be worried with that Staffy getting over the fence too, I'd probably be wanting to put an extention ontop of the fence line.

[mita]

Yes, get your stronger fence up, however you do it, as soon as possible. Those dogs are a tragedy waiting to happen & the attitude of their owner sums up why. Make sure your gates are a good barrier, too, in case those dogs get out onto the footpath & try to come via gates.

Can you make a cat enclosure for your puss, too.

[Sunnyflower]

If the fence is failing then I am pretty sure the neighbour has to pay half the cost. Contact your council for more information there though.

Yes they do have to pay half the costs. It is a rental so we need to get in touch with the owners and see how it pans out. It is 50m long so to foot the bill ourselves is too much.

Get your new fence done as soon as possible, all it takes is a couple of loose pailings, I left it to late and one of my dogs was taken.

I am so sorry to hear this!! I will be a mess if this happens to Oscar. I know my Fiance will probably try and ring the dogs neck responsible too and I don't want the dramas associated with that!

At our last place my OH put in Star Pickets to hold up the fence and that worked well.

The Staffy may settle down soon, I've had a dog aggressive dog play up a treat when we moved house and then settled down with the neighbours.

I'd be worried with that Staffy getting over the fence too, I'd probably be wanting to put an extention ontop of the fence line.

I didn't think of that MEH. Adding starpickets for extra support is a great idea! We also have loads of wire left too so will have to add that for extra height.

Yes, get your stronger fence up, however you do it, as soon as possible. Those dogs are a tragedy waiting to happen & the attitude of their owner sums up why. Make sure your gates are a good barrier, too, in case those dogs get out onto the footpath & try to come via gates.

Can you make a cat enclosure for your puss, too.

We will have to attend to the fence this weekend and keep Oscar in the house for the mean time. They have two gates to get through. The front ones are quite low but the gat into his yard his 1.6m timber fence so they can't get through that. I do like staffies but these two are a very good example of what they can potentially be in the bad hands. In the 3 weeks we have been going over to the house for painting and moving and now living we haven't seen them been taken for a walk once!

Our little Devon Rex kitten is only ever contained. He doesn't free roam! He is in the house 23 hours of the day and the little yard we have done up just outside the front is high enough for where he cannot get out and until we finish the lean over at the top he is only allowed out there whilst we are sitting out there with him. He isn't a normal cat that runs off. Oscar and him play and he comes when called. He just likes to feel the grass under his feet and chomp on the grass, if we don't let him out he is a nightmare!

However, Cino is safe and we would never ever in a million years let our cats free roam.

[SueM]

I ended up having to move after the incident as the dog that killed mine was declared dangerous, I told the pound I did not want her put to sleep was not her fault it was her owners fault the dog was never socialized and never left the yard, they became so abusive after the incident every time I walked outside I would cop it as they had to reinforce the fence. My gosh they sound just like my old neighbours!

Edited March 29, 2011 by varicool

[Sunnyflower]

I ended up having to move after the incident as the dog that killed mine was declared dangerous, I told the pound I did not want her put to sleep was not her fault it was her owners fault the dog was never socialized and never left the yard, they became so abusive after the incident every time I walked outside I would cop it as they had to reinforce the fence. My gosh they sound just like my old neighbours!

You poor thing!! That makes me so angry .. Pregnancy hormones or not that has royally peeved me off!! You lose your dog due to their dogs savage mauling and they get angry at you because they got to KEEP their dog and they had to reinforce there fence! I reckon they got the good end of the stick!

I might try and establish who actually manages this rental property and speak with them in regards to the state of the fence! It will cost roughly $4k to do just that one side! If the landlord isn't willing to pay half then he is going to have to attend to the fence also if he is going to allow his rental property to have pets.

[Fatsofatsoman]

as long as the pailings are nailed on just fine I'd also go with the star pickets option - and then run some dog fencing from bunnings along it just for some extra piece of mind. It may not look all that pretty but it's only temporary while waiting for the colourbond and you'll be able to rest easy.

or dig a 6foot moat along the fence line with pirhanas in

[Sunnyflower]

as long as the pailings are nailed on just fine I'd also go with the star pickets option - and then run some dog fencing from bunnings along it just for some extra piece of mind. It may not look all that pretty but it's only temporary while waiting for the colourbond and you'll be able to rest easy.

or dig a 6foot moat along the fence line with pirhanas in

if you ask Marcus he will take the pirhana option!!

Pretty is not something we are fussed about. We have moved into a run down shack that is a beautiful green colour on the outside and we HAD to paint prior to moving in otherwise there was no way I was living there with the beautiful dark green skirting and light green walls internal and the lovely old smell that sticks to old paint! On the upside the house is about 5mtrs off the water and an absolutely beautiful view!

I'll do a walk along the fence line this afternoon and see how it's looking in terms of working with what we've got. I'm sure there is no reason why we can't and hey seen it's their dogs that are a threat maybe her hubby might be willing to get out and give us a hand and we might be able to be friends! Right now, Marcus isn't liking them.

[nightgrace6]

You will have to look at the Fencing Act... there are A LOT of rules about fencing.. do they own their house? You will need to get an expert to say that the fence is failing if you want to replace it and then they still have the right to disagree.. you cannot put anything that adds height to the fence or anything they will be able to see as it is a breach of the Act.. good luck and hope your dog stays safe..

[Sunnyflower]

You will have to look at the Fencing Act... there are A LOT of rules about fencing.. do they own their house? You will need to get an expert to say that the fence is failing if you want to replace it and then they still have the right to disagree.. you cannot put anything that adds height to the fence or anything they will be able to see as it is a breach of the Act.. good luck and hope your dog stays safe..

Thanks nightgrace.

We are well aware that they can disagree and we can only hope that they won't! The place is a rental and as they are allowing pets I am sure we can get the Real Estate involved. We have family friends who owns and runs a real estate so I am sure they would be able to help us in regards to the laws associated with allowing a rental property to have dogs.

We can have an inspector to come out but if you saw the fence you would see clearly that the fence doesn't need an inspector to tell us that it is in poor shape! when there is obviously holes in the fence due to rot that has wire blocking it and our big piece of timber and there are timber poles on an angle holding the fence up.

[nightgrace6]

I think the best point to start with is to talk to them (even if you do not want to) and speak about how it would be best for both sides to have a new fence put up.. then if they are hostile and disagree you have facts stating you attempted to converse with them but they were uncooperative..

Is your landlord paying for the fence or have you said you would pay? it is property maintenance (and tax deductible for him/her) and you should not have to pay a cent, if you are sure you will stay there for a while offering to pay a little as a gesture of goodwill should go down well.. I have negotiated roller shutters on my house and paid for half (it definately keeps landlords happy and they are more inclined to agree)..

If you have a builder that deals with fences close to you or in your family it might pay to have him write a short note about the condition of the fence.

All the best, I hope this doesnt become difficult for you.

[Sunnyflower]

I think the best point to start with is to talk to them (even if you do not want to) and speak about how it would be best for both sides to have a new fence put up.. then if they are hostile and disagree you have facts stating you attempted to converse with them but they were uncooperative..

Is your landlord paying for the fence or have you said you would pay? it is property maintenance (and tax deductible for him/her) and you should not have to pay a cent, if you are sure you will stay there for a while offering to pay a little as a gesture of goodwill should go down well.. I have negotiated roller shutters on my house and paid for half (it definately keeps landlords happy and they are more inclined to agree)..

If you have a builder that deals with fences close to you or in your family it might pay to have him write a short note about the condition of the fence.

All the best, I hope this doesnt become difficult for you.

Thanks nightgrace - not sure if you actually read all my posts but our landlord is my Mother & Father in-laws. As far as they are concerned it is our home, it's the people with the two staffies that are renters not us.

In terms of having cheap colorbond fencing put up we have already sorted out all the logistics. My Mother in-law is a property developer and all our friends have building trades under their belt. Having the fence errected is the least of our worries! As alreay stated, I have already gone over and talked with the wife and got a very short blunt response.

From here on in we need to keep our guy safe until we can get in touch with the owner of the actual house to have the new fence put in. However being a 50m long yard for both of us, regardless of us being able to get materials quite cheap and doing it ourselves it is still going to be a $4-5k venture and not everyone has this kind of money lying around for a fence.

[nightgrace6]

Sorry must of missed the part where you wrote your in laws were the landlords ?

Whilst the fence is being errected what do you think the woman next door will do with her dog?

DIVIDING FENCES ACT 1991 - SECT 4

Determination as to “sufficient dividing fence”

4 Determination as to “sufficient dividing fence”

In any proceedings under this Act, the Local Court or a local land board is to consider all the circumstances of the case when determining the standard for a sufficient dividing fence for the purposes of this Act, including the following:

(a) the existing dividing fence (if any),

(b) the purposes for which the adjoining lands are used or intended to be used,

© the privacy or other concerns of the adjoining land owners,

(d) the kind of dividing fence usual in the locality,

(e) any policy or code relating to dividing fences adopted by the council of the local government area in which the adjoining lands are situated,

(f) any relevant environmental planning instrument relating to the adjoining lands or to the locality in which they are situated,

(g) in the case of a dividing fence affecting land the subject of a lease under the Western Lands Act 1901 , any order in force under section 18A of that Act.

DIVIDING FENCES ACT 1991 - SECT 12

Procedure when agreement not reached

12 Procedure when agreement not reached

(1) Adjoining owners may attend a Community Justice Centre in an attempt to reach an agreement concerning the carrying out of fencing work (including the contributions to be made in respect of the work).

(2) If adjoining owners do not agree (within 1 month after one of them has served a notice under section 11) as to the fencing work to be carried out, either owner may apply to the Local Court or a local land board for an order determining the manner in which the fencing work (if any) is to be carried out.

DIVIDING FENCES ACT 1991 - SECT 9

Contribution when urgent fencing work is required

9 Contribution when urgent fencing work is required

(1) This section applies to a dividing fence that has been damaged or destroyed (in whole or in part) and in the circumstances requires urgent fencing work.

DIVIDING FENCES ACT 1991 - SECT 7

Contribution as between adjoining owners-generally

7 Contribution as between adjoining owners-generally

(1) Adjoining owners are liable to contribute in equal proportions to the carrying out of fencing work in respect of a dividing fence of a standard not greater than the standard for a sufficient dividing fence.

(2) An adjoining owner who desires to carry out fencing work involving a dividing fence of a standard greater than the standard for a sufficient dividing fence is liable for the fencing work to the extent to which it exceeds the standard for a sufficient dividing fence.

(3) An adjoining owner who desires to carry out the trimming, lopping or removal of vegetation (as referred to in paragraph (b) of the definition of "fencing work" in section 3) for a purpose other than the provision of a sufficient dividing fence is liable for the expenses of carrying out the work to the extent to which those expenses are attributable to work done for that other purpose.

DIVIDING FENCES ACT 1991 - SECT 6

General principle-liability for fencing work

6 General principle-liability for fencing work

(1) An adjoining owner is liable, in respect of adjoining lands where there is no sufficient dividing fence, to contribute to the carrying out of fencing work that results or would result in the provision of a dividing fence of a standard not greater than the standard for a sufficient dividing fence.

(2) This section applies whether or not a dividing fence already separates the adjoining lands

(2) If it is impracticable to serve a notice under section 11 in respect of a dividing fence to which this section applies, an adjoining owner may, without serving such a notice, carry out the urgent fencing work required to restore the dividing fence.

(3) The other adjoining owner is liable for half the cost (or a greater proportion if section 8 applies) of the urgent fencing work.

(4) Any such liability may be reviewed by the Local Court or a local land board on the application by that owner to the Court or board within 1 month after the work has been completed (or within such later period as the Court or board may allow).

I am sure you have already read the above points in the Act but just to clarify... If the other landlord does not agree you must get someone to state the fence is not standard "faulty, damaged, unsafe" otherwise you are liable to pay the cost of the whole fence and even in the event that you do get a report stating that, the other landlord is still able to object (why anyone would if they are getting a free fence baffles me though).

[nightgrace6]

In terms of safety, sorry, I agree with a run, I would also suggest keeping the dog inside (if you can) state that the fence is weak and you fear for your dogs safety and the safety of your family and it should be no worries..

I might try and establish who actually manages this rental property and speak with them in regards to the state of the fence! It will cost roughly $4k to do just that one side! If the landlord isn't willing to pay half then he is going to have to attend to the fence also if he is going to allow his rental property to have pets.

In response to your above statement, his tennent was in that property with a pet first and he can do what he wants, he does not have to disallow his tennent from having pets, even if the dog escaped and attacked someone it would be the tennent that owns the dogs problem not his..

[dancinbcs]

Be aware that a strong dog can actually just barge through a colourbond fence and pop the panels. Sometimes a sturdy new paling fence is a better option.

Also make sure the staffy cannot dig under the fence. As a Pet Educator I had to help an 8 year old overcome his dog fear last week after the neighbours staffy dug into their yard and bit the boy on the arm and the leg, a couple of weeks before. This family were on acreage so have an even tougher task keeping the staffy out.

[Sunnyflower]

In terms of safety, sorry, I agree with a run, I would also suggest keeping the dog inside (if you can) state that the fence is weak and you fear for your dogs safety and the safety of your family and it should be no worries..

I might try and establish who actually manages this rental property and speak with them in regards to the state of the fence! It will cost roughly $4k to do just that one side! If the landlord isn't willing to pay half then he is going to have to attend to the fence also if he is going to allow his rental property to have pets.

In response to your above statement, his tennent was in that property with a pet first and he can do what he wants, he does not have to disallow his tennent from having pets, even if the dog escaped and attacked someone it would be the tennent that owns the dogs problem not his..

Nightgrace, I thank you for your help but you are essentially repeating everything I have already stated!

As said - We have erected a fence that divides our yard and Oscar cannot run the same fenceline as these dogs. Oscar is kept inside all the time when we are home and if it is stormy, raining or exceptionally cold! However, We are away all day working and he loves being outside when we aren't there and I am not going to deny him that. In terms of taking care of our own backyard we have done exactly that. However we have a bloody massive yard that we are being denied to being able to use!

We aren't going to speak on behalf of the landlord or broach the topic just yet until my mother-in-law gets her affairs sorted as they are wanted to develop the front. We have family friends who owns a local real estate who are currently establishing who manages this property and that will be our first point of call.

These people have their yard sectioned in many places and they can tell we are pretty annoyed about their male dog. The little girl is an absolutely little sweetheart and has eyes to melt your heart. To boy needs a good muzzle! Anyways, we are in the process of working the logistical side of things out and as it has been raining a lot lately Oscar has primarily been inside and it has been no concern.

Be aware that a strong dog can actually just barge through a colourbond fence and pop the panels. Sometimes a sturdy new paling fence is a better option.

Also make sure the staffy cannot dig under the fence. As a Pet Educator I had to help an 8 year old overcome his dog fear last week after the neighbours staffy dug into their yard and bit the boy on the arm and the leg, a couple of weeks before. This family were on acreage so have an even tougher task keeping the staffy out.

Dancinbcs - We are aware they can run through the fence as my last neighbour had a doofus muscle dog that always seemed to crash through it when trying to catch his balls ! Tooheys was quite the nugget though. I don't feel as though this dog will push through the fence or dig under and the choice of fence isn't up to me the height I have a say in! Timber fences rot and don't last anywhere near as long as colourbond and they are actually more expensive than colourbond these days. We live on the lake, it is literally only 5 metres from our back deck so there is always a lot of moisture in the air which isn't doing the current timber fence any favors.

The sooner we get the front part developed the better. All brand new fencing everywhere and we won't see these staffies anymore.

Noted - It's not the staffies fault. We have been there a month now and not once have I seen these little guys taken out of their yard or them out there playing with them. They simply walk past them to get to and from the car.