Dogs Attaching In Their Own Yard

[Keshwar]

Despite repeated asking for examples of legal cases or legislation regarding dog signs on properties no-one has been able to provide me with any form of proof.

I think the whole "If you have a sign saying "Beware of Dog etc" you are likely to be sued" thing is an urban myth.

I'm happy to be proved wrong in this. But if you want to prove me wrong please provide links/references to a documented court case or to current legislation.

On another note in the ACT you cannot have the front of the property fenced.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Keshwar

[Tilly]

A number of telephone calls to council etc resulted in the advice that a dog bite is a dog bite regardless of the location. Basically if someone is bitten by your dog it makes no difference if it was inside or outside of your yard - they can be declared dangerous ... or PTS if that is the ruling.

Apparently it depends on the state or territory. When I enquired I was told that if the bite was on my property behind an adequate fence then it was not an offence. I made this enquiry after a former neighbour told a police officer that jumping our fence in pursuit of a burglar would be suicide. Of course, if that were true, then the burglar wouldn't have jumped our fence in the first place (or if he did, he wasn't going anywhere), but it was enough to cause a bit of trouble...

Aidan2 - does the council give a clear definition of an "adequate fence" ... some councils give clear fence requirements such as 1.2m high fence for small dogs under 8kg and 1.8m for dogs over 8kg. When I asked about what consituted an adequate fence ... this is were the issue started.

While most people view an adequate fence as being a secure fence that keeps their dog inside their yard - but this may not be the case. It may in fact mean a fence which someone couldn't climb over or get through. Now we have an 8 foot timber paling fence build originally as part of a pool fence (over 1 metre between side rails) but this is not adequate to stop someone from climbing over it (which I regularly do when I forget my house keys) so therefore this is not adequate from stopping someone from entering my backyard - and therefore not considered an "adequate fence" in the event of a dog bite.

[Erny]

When I was a kid, anyone being sued over civil matters such as this was a rarity. We used to watch USA TV and see all the 'sue happy' ways they had back then. And then we saw the same happening here. And now it is like it is over there.

I'm not against going for monetary compensation where it is essentially due, but we do sue at the drop of a hat these days. And there's usually someone looking to see who they can make money from for their own misfortune.

ETA: Oh ..... and back in those days you saw more people volunteering assistance and monetary compensation for damage without needing the angst, trauma, time wasting, stress and ill-will of having to drag people through the court system. But these days you can't 'offer' anything for fear the other person will interpret that to mean an admission of guilt and have it encourage them to go ahead and sue you (for profit purposes), even if they hadn't previously thought or intended to do so.

Sorry .... just lamenting for the good ol' days .

Edited March 29, 2011 by Erny

[CreamyPuff]

I'm fairly new to the ACT so does anyone know who I would contact to find out? Canberra Connect perhaps?

[Aidan3]

Aidan2 - does the council give a clear definition of an "adequate fence" ... some councils give clear fence requirements such as 1.2m high fence for small dogs under 8kg and 1.8m for dogs over 8kg. When I asked about what consituted an adequate fence ... this is were the issue started.

Sorry, I don't know even for Tassie. I do know that if my dog were to bite someone through a fence, it would be an offence.

[Aidan3]

Despite repeated asking for examples of legal cases or legislation regarding dog signs on properties no-one has been able to provide me with any form of proof.

My aunt, a solicitor, had no idea about it when I asked her. I suspect you may be right. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[Diva]

I think you'd ask Domestic Animal Services (DAS) which comes under TAMS (Territory and Municipal Services). You can probably get to them through Canberra Connect.

For info - extract from the ACT Domestic Animals Act 2000:

(2) The keeper of a dog commits an offence if the dog attacks or

harasses a person or animal when it is not with a carer.

Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.

(3) In a prosecution for an offence against subsection (2), it is a defence

if—

(a) the defendant establishes that the person or animal provoked

the dog; or

(b) the person or animal was attacked or harassed because the dog

came to the aid of its keeper, or another person or animal that

the dog could reasonably be expected to protect; or

© if the attack or harassment was on premises occupied by the

defendant, the defendant establishes that—

(i) the person was on the premises without reasonable

excuse; or

(ii) the person failed to take reasonable care for the person’s

own safety.

[Akay]

I'm thinking of putting a "do not let the dog out" sign on my gate - I'm not worried about my dogs attacking anyone (the Husky would just bark and the Lappie would come and get cuddles), but I am worried about them being let out of the yard. We keep the gate locked, but we've been warned that our water meter could be moving to the backyard and the Husky would run and not return until she was ready if someone let her out.

this sign would be inviting idiots to let the dog out IMO. Locks are the best defence. The water meter guy can arrange a meeting time to read the meter, you don't need to provide unfetted access to your yard.

We did this when we moved to a house where the electricity metre was inside the gate, which we had locked because of the dogs. They phoned us to let us know when they would be coming to read it so we unlocked the gates that day and kept the dogs inside.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Akay

[Bjelkier]

Despite repeated asking for examples of legal cases or legislation regarding dog signs on properties no-one has been able to provide me with any form of proof.

I think the whole "If you have a sign saying "Beware of Dog etc" you are likely to be sued" thing is an urban myth.

I'm happy to be proved wrong in this. But if you want to prove me wrong please provide links/references to a documented court case or to current legislation.

On another note in the ACT you cannot have the front of the property fenced.

I think so too.

I live in the country so my entire property is fenced and the way its set up the dogs have free roam around the whole house (this is not something I would usually do but its a rental).

For the first few weeks I had many trades men ect coming in and leaving the gates open even though I had a dogs roaming free sign up.

I have since added a beware of dog sign and not one person has entered the property without beeping the horn first or calling out nor have they left gates open.

If it means people actually think for a moment before entering the property I will be keeping the sign up.

[hortfurball]

*snip*When I straight out asked what I needed to do to ensure my dogs were safe from stupid people (because I am not allowed to shoot people, can't use barbed wire or electric fences) ... I was told not to have dogs.

at the bolded bit. Oh if only we were allowed to shoot stupid people.

Anyone entering your property should have free access to the front door (or some means of contacting the house - such as a speaker thingy - like in gated communities) ... and in the case of a meter reader then free access to the meter box.

I am SPEECHLESS that Whiskedaway's council is moving the water meter to the back yard given this rule. What a ridiculously thoughtless thing to do.

Creamypuff, go to your local council's website. All bylaws should be outlined there in regards to expectations of responsible dog ownership including liability and exceptions. It'll probably be a PDF file and will all be in legal speak so will take some chugging through.

Edited March 29, 2011 by hortfurball

[Steve]

I have farm insurance to cover me if my working dogs bite someone or my stud ram head butts your new car in my driveway. But I doubt that would get me out of my dog being at risk of a dangerous dog notice or being destroyed if it bites someone. That causes me a bit of worry because the humans around here havent shown much common sense or respect for the fact that the Maremmas are specifcally used to protect their sheep from predators.

The last time the meter reading came in we had the sheep and working Maremmas in the house yard and new lambs born the day before.

Usually when people come here they drive through three gates and drive up to the house - the dogs accept that as normal behaviour.

This guy however parks his vehicle outside the second gate and intends to walk the last 200 metres to the house right through the middle of the new lambs withtheir Mum's.

He has a hat on which covered half his face and big sunglasses. He is walking briskly and is swinging one arm carrying his black thing which he uses to read the meter - about 30 cm long - looks like a weapon.

I hear the dog going nuts and see the guy walking towards the gate so I race out but by the time I get out he is already through the gate and a few metres from the ewe and her lamb.

The dog has hackles up and standing his ground between the guy and the ewe - yelling at him telling him in no uncertain terms to get back out and not come another step. By now I meet the guy and tell him Ill walk him in but the dog doesnt like him and the guy was in no doubt about that the whole time he was here. Then bugger me as Im walking him back out he stops and wants to look at the cute baby lamb - turns sharply towards them and takes a couple of steps - the dog grabbed his trouser leg and the fact that by now the ewe was further away than she was when he came in as she had walked off with her twins with the bitch was probably all that prevented it being his leg rather than his pants.

Anyway it showed me that when the sheep are in the house yard I have to do other things to ensure someone doesnt get in this position. So I padlock the gate and I have a sign saying Working Maremma - do not enter - sound horn. One key to the padlock is outside the gate so the family can get in without me needing to walk down but strangers dont know that so if they want in they need me.

It also made me think I probably need a sign on the paddock fences too - Working Maremma - do not enter - because we have had two incidences where an idiot jumped two back fences and walked across the paddock with the sheep and the dogs to get to the house yard.

We also had another incident where the Maremma pinged a dog - walking off leash in the showground which came through two fences into our sheep paddock with the owner watching to give it the hint that if it didnt get out of the paddock it would die and the owner turned up here to ask for vet bills.

Id hate to see the dogs at risk for doing their job so Im aiming to do what I can to eliminate the risk but geez we put in a boundry fence and then paid extra thiousands of dollars to put in another fence 15 metere from the boundry fence to prevent anything coming in or our dogs being able to get to the boundry fence surely there is a limit to what you can do.

[Nushie]

My mums water meter is out the backyard and the guys that check them don't go out their because of the dogs. Never have. They knock on the front door and we take them out and if there is no one home. They leave a flyer in the mail box saying they came around and we fill in the reading and mail it back to them.

Our dogs have never been a problem but I would think that is part of their safety rules. I wouldn't be going into a backyard with a dog I don't know without the owner so why should they be expected too. At the same time, as an owner I don't want strangers in my yard without my knowledge.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I have a meter in my back yard and a sign "beware the dog" on my gate. Most of the meter readers knock on my door to make sure the dog is secure before entering. One did not - and while my dog barked a lot at him, she kept her distance.

I've tried to find evidence on the legal database of the "beware the dog" sign being an addmission of liability. I have found none. I think it's a myth or the law has been changed so it's ok for a dog to defend it's property. SA has the same exemption for dog bite ie uninvited stranger in the back yard is fair game. If you do have a dangerous dog, I believe you have to put a sign saying "Dangerous dog" (and have it secured in an escape proof run).

If you're not going to lock the meter reader out, it helps to have a sign so they're not surpised by the dog, or peg the gate open and let it out.

I always take "beware" to mean "caution" or "be aware" or "take heed" the same as you might for a step or pot hole. Which are only dangerous if you're not paying attention.

[Lowenhart]

Why have a water meter in ther backyard??? That's nuts! Councils should be making it easier for themselves. All the problems it could cause

[Maddy]

If you can do it, I'd say, keep the dogs in the back yard and let people approach through a door that does not go through the back yard.

This is what we do with our dogs.

There is a sign on the gate but anyone entering our property can access our water meter, fuse box and front door (as is required by law) without any risk of coming into contact with our dogs.

If someone went through the second and then third gate (to where the dogs are) and got bitten, I imagine they'd have a harder time complaining to the authorities about it, especially considering there's absolutely no reason for anyone to be back there- there's two doors before the third gate and no excuse for someone to be in our backyard without having first come to either our front or back door first (both of which, as I mentioned above, can be accessed without risking contact with the dogs).

Dog attacks on private property seem to be a bit of a grey area so I'd not be taking any risks.

That aside, there's also the issue of meter readers. I can't speak for other states but down here, if an Aurora meter reader sees a dog in your front yard (regardless of how friendly it seems) they won't enter the property unless they can see the dog is secured and of no risk to them.

http://www.auroraenergy.com.au/my_home/bil...rs_and_dogs.asp