Does The Breed Of A Dog Matter

[Odin-Genie]

Some of the comments in the GR attack thread in the news section seemed to imply that the breed of a dog does not matter. That there is no predisposition to certain characteristics in a breed.

Over the years I have read in this forum that certain breeds are predisposed to certain behavioural traits which need to be managed with training. For example the predisposition of Huskies to jump fences, Labradors to play boisterously, German Shepherds to be wary of strangers, American Staffordshire Terriers to be DA if not socialised early.

I am not in favour of BSL and I think it's completely unfair to target dogs based on breeds. However, I also think that it is ignorant to pretend that there is no breed predisposition. If that was the case, there would not be frequent suggestions to research the right breed.

So what does everyone else think?

Edited to add 'with the same amount of training' in the last two options.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Odin-Genie

[Kavik]

Of course different breeds have different behavioural traits. That is what makes them different from one another, otherwise we could all just get a generic dog for whatever task we need to do. Since they were bred for different tasks and were selected for different temperament traits as well as appearance, it is ridiculous to say that they don't have a tendency to different behaviours.

Edit cause not having a good spelling day!

Edited March 28, 2011 by Kavik

[kelpiekaye]

Of course different breeds have different behavioural traits. That is what makes them different from one another, otherwise we could all just get a generic dog for whatever task we need to do. Since they were bred for different tasks and were selected for different temperament traits as well as appearance, it is ridiculous to say that they don't have a tendency to different behaviours.

Edit cause not having a good spelling day!

X 2

[Odin-Genie]

Would you say that some breeds are more predisposed to being wary of strangers and could be more aggressive to dogs or humans if not trained properly?

Or does breed play no part in the predisposition to dog or human aggression?

I have frequently seen in the rescue and mature dog threads that Akitas and Malamutes are often available only if they are the only pets. Referring back to the GR attack thread, do you think it is unreasonable to think that a GR is generally of a more friendly disposition than some other breeds? I'm referring to well-bred GRs here.

I do believe that all dogs can bite if pushed. However, if there are breeds that tend to be less patient, then educating owners would be a better option instead of not accepting that breeds can differ in their predisposition to certain reactions.

I noticed that there are some ticks against the sentence that an Akita can be as good an assistance dog as a Lab. If that was really the case, why are Labs selected to be guide dogs? Why not other breeds?

Edited March 28, 2011 by Odin-Genie

[Sandra777]

Would you say that some breeds are more predisposed to being vary of strangers and could be more aggressive to dogs or humans if not trained properly?

Or does breed play no part in the predisposition to dog or human aggression?

Some breeds have been specifically bred for (in some cases) hundreds of years to be wary of strangers so yes of course some breeds are going to be predisposed to being wary of strangers.

Being wary of strangers and being human aggressive are two quite different traits though.

Yes some breeds are less likely to observe the 'normal' laws of dog society and offer lots of appeasement gestures, they'd rather just get to the fight at the end. This is definitely a genetic trait BUT is this dog aggression or dominance? - Are some breeds more likely to produce more dominant individuals than other breeds? - IMO yes, given the history of some breeds which were allowed to live a more 'wild' or 'independent' life - lot of independent thinking in a retriever is pretty annoying, a lot of independent thinking in a livestock guardian dog is more or less a requirement.

I do believe that all dogs can bite if pushed. However, if there are breeds that tend to be less patient, then educating owners would be a better option instead of not accepting that breeds can be differ in their predisposition to certain reactions.

Yes I think there are some breeds which tend to be less patient with PEOPLE than other breeds - and these IME tend to be the small breeds which in reality probably aren't less patient but actually more fearful for their own safety given the size difference.

I noticed that there are some ticks against the sentence that an Akita can be as good an assistance dog as a Lab. If that was really the case, why are Labs selected to be guide dogs? Why not other breeds?

If you had phrased the question "do you think an Akita can be as good an assistance dog as a Lab" I would have ticked it too - but because you added the requirement ''with the same amount of training" I didn't - IMO an Akita would require different training and perhaps more repetitive training than a Lab, but would be able to do the same job.

Why are Labs chosen - because they are generally the right size, are generally not too difficult to train and are generally pretty accepted by the general public.

The original Guide Dogs were German Shepherds/Belgian Shepherds so why aren't they used as much any more???????????

Edited March 28, 2011 by Sandra777

[SpotTheDog]

I absolutely believe that dogs are predisposed to personality traits depending on their breed. However the way that predisposition manifests itself in urban mythology is the problem.

A predisposition towards a personality trait is absolutely not, in any way, shape or form, the same as a behavioural guarantee.

There is no guarantee that a german shepherd will attack a burglar just because it's a german shepherd.

There is no guarantee that a golden retriever will be an excellent family dog with your small children just because it's a golden retriever.

There is no guarantee that a pitbull terrier will suddenly turn and savage your children just because it's a pitbull terrier.

Many people don't seem to be able to see past breeding for characteristics - look at all the greyhounds shot because they won't chase, all the labradors who don't make it through assistance dog training, the shepherds who fail police dog training, and the pitbull terriers tortured and abused to make them more aggressive because they just aren't savage enough in the fight ring.

Find a breed you like. Make yourself aware of the predisposition of your breed towards certain personality traits. Train and nurture with those traits in mind - either encouraging them, or discouraging them, or planning to thwart them from the outset (e.g. roofed dog run for your husky, or fence capping to prevent them leaving the yard - install it on day one instead of hoping and waiting until you come home one day to an empty yard and an answering machine message from the rangers - if you're lucky.)

Edited March 28, 2011 by SpotTheDog

[Aidan3]

Yes some breeds are less likely to observe the 'normal' laws of dog society and offer lots of appeasement gestures, they'd rather just get to the fight at the end. This is definitely a genetic trait BUT is this dog aggression or dominance?

Can you explain why, in your opinion, it would make a difference? It's not my experience that dominant dogs are more likely to fight, but let's say for the sake of the discussion that they are, why would it make a difference?

[Jumabaar]

I think you will find many of these answers on breeders websites, and breed standard. Some standards require the dog to be reserved, others call for an outgoing temperament etc. I cant think of any breed standard that calls for human aggression though so well bred dogs should not be aggressive towards humans (In an ideal world full of fairies and unicorns of course)

[minxy]

Yes, I believe that a Lab could be just as good at being a guard dog as a GS is. And yes I believe an Akita could be just as good as an assistance dog as a Lab. However, there are other factors for ruling them out - for example, a dog that blows coat really wouldn't be the best choice for an assistance dog.

[dee lee]

I think you will find many of these answers on breeders websites, and breed standard. Some standards require the dog to be reserved, others call for an outgoing temperament etc. I cant think of any breed standard that calls for human aggression though so well bred dogs should not be aggressive towards humans (In an ideal world full of fairies and unicorns of course)

However, some breed websites do recognise certain breeds' tendency towards possible DA.

[Staranais]

I think you will find many of these answers on breeders websites, and breed standard. Some standards require the dog to be reserved, others call for an outgoing temperament etc. I cant think of any breed standard that calls for human aggression though so well bred dogs should not be aggressive towards humans (In an ideal world full of fairies and unicorns of course)

However, some breed websites do recognise certain breeds' tendency towards possible DA.

I don't know any standard that outright calls for human aggression, but many do call the breed protective, defensive, or wary of strangers.

[mita]

I absolutely believe that dogs are predisposed to personality traits depending on their breed. However the way that predisposition manifests itself in urban mythology is the problem.

A predisposition towards a personality trait is absolutely not, in any way, shape or form, the same as a behavioural guarantee.

There is no guarantee that a german shepherd will attack a burglar just because it's a german shepherd.

There is no guarantee that a golden retriever will be an excellent family dog with your small children just because it's a golden retriever.

There is no guarantee that a pitbull terrier will suddenly turn and savage your children just because it's a pitbull terrier.

Many people don't seem to be able to see past breeding for characteristics - look at all the greyhounds shot because they won't chase, all the labradors who don't make it through assistance dog training, the shepherds who fail police dog training, and the pitbull terriers tortured and abused to make them more aggressive because they just aren't savage enough in the fight ring.

Find a breed you like. Make yourself aware of the predisposition of your breed towards certain personality traits. Train and nurture with those traits in mind - either encouraging them, or discouraging them, or planning to thwart them from the outset (e.g. roofed dog run for your husky, or fence capping to prevent them leaving the yard - install it on day one instead of hoping and waiting until you come home one day to an empty yard and an answering machine message from the rangers - if you're lucky.)

Great post.

[Diva]

I certainly agree that breed matters a lot. I think everyone should understand the breed they have as well as they can so they can be aware of those likely characteristics. Indeed, the typical breed temperament is one of the reasons I stick with the breed I have and may never get anything else, it's pretty distinctive and it suits me.

But you can't discount the individual variations that occur within a breed either. Just because a given breed is more likely to be predisposed to 'x' behaviour, doesn't mean that all individuals within a breed will be so predisposed, or at least not equally so.

I wasn't sure about the statement about some breeds being harder to train - train for what and using what methods would be my question before I could answer that. The more a desired behaviour matches the characteristics a breed was bred for, the easier it should be to train for that sort of behaviour. Doesn't make the other breeds hard per se, just need to find what floats their boat.

[mita]

I wasn't sure about the statement about some breeds being harder to train - train for what and using what methods would be my question before I could answer that. The more a desired behaviour matches the characteristics a breed was bred for, the easier it should be to train for that sort of behaviour. Doesn't make the other breeds hard per se, just need to find what floats their boat.

And a 'Yes' to this comment, too. As well as the earlier comment about individual variations within a breed.

[Odin-Genie]

I absolutely believe that dogs are predisposed to personality traits depending on their breed. However the way that predisposition manifests itself in urban mythology is the problem.

A predisposition towards a personality trait is absolutely not, in any way, shape or form, the same as a behavioural guarantee.

There is no guarantee that a german shepherd will attack a burglar just because it's a german shepherd.

There is no guarantee that a golden retriever will be an excellent family dog with your small children just because it's a golden retriever.

There is no guarantee that a pitbull terrier will suddenly turn and savage your children just because it's a pitbull terrier.

Many people don't seem to be able to see past breeding for characteristics - look at all the greyhounds shot because they won't chase, all the labradors who don't make it through assistance dog training, the shepherds who fail police dog training, and the pitbull terriers tortured and abused to make them more aggressive because they just aren't savage enough in the fight ring.

Find a breed you like. Make yourself aware of the predisposition of your breed towards certain personality traits. Train and nurture with those traits in mind - either encouraging them, or discouraging them, or planning to thwart them from the outset (e.g. roofed dog run for your husky, or fence capping to prevent them leaving the yard - install it on day one instead of hoping and waiting until you come home one day to an empty yard and an answering machine message from the rangers - if you're lucky.)

Great post.

I totally agree. I don't believe any breed can come with guarantees. I have a GR who refuses to retrieve!!!

However, since I have two very different types of dogs, a northern breed and a gun dog, I do see their breed predisposition manifesting in the way I need to train them.

For example most people would not be able to manage a Caucasian Ovcharka. Whether we refer to the breed as protective or aggressive, the truth is this breed would require a lot more work to keep it in a family that has loads of children and their friends running around than, let's say, a GR.

[dogfan]

I absolutely believe that dogs are predisposed to personality traits depending on their breed. However the way that predisposition manifests itself in urban mythology is the problem.

A predisposition towards a personality trait is absolutely not, in any way, shape or form, the same as a behavioural guarantee.

There is no guarantee that a german shepherd will attack a burglar just because it's a german shepherd.

There is no guarantee that a golden retriever will be an excellent family dog with your small children just because it's a golden retriever.

There is no guarantee that a pitbull terrier will suddenly turn and savage your children just because it's a pitbull terrier.

Many people don't seem to be able to see past breeding for characteristics - look at all the greyhounds shot because they won't chase, all the labradors who don't make it through assistance dog training, the shepherds who fail police dog training, and the pitbull terriers tortured and abused to make them more aggressive because they just aren't savage enough in the fight ring.

Find a breed you like. Make yourself aware of the predisposition of your breed towards certain personality traits. Train and nurture with those traits in mind - either encouraging them, or discouraging them, or planning to thwart them from the outset (e.g. roofed dog run for your husky, or fence capping to prevent them leaving the yard - install it on day one instead of hoping and waiting until you come home one day to an empty yard and an answering machine message from the rangers - if you're lucky.)

Great post.

I totally agree. I don't believe any breed can come with guarantees. I have a GR who refuses to retrieve!!!

However, since I have two very different types of dogs, a northern breed and a gun dog, I do see their breed predisposition manifesting in the way I need to train them.

For example most people would not be able to manage a Caucasian Ovcharka. Whether we refer to the breed as protective or aggressive, the truth is this breed would require a lot more work to keep it in a family that has loads of children and their friends running around than, let's say, a GR.

I agree - great post Spot :D

[hortfurball]

I do believe that all dogs can bite if pushed. However, if there are breeds that tend to be less patient, then educating owners would be a better option instead of not accepting that breeds can differ in their predisposition to certain reactions.

Looking at the results of your poll, I'd say this is far from what is happening.

I absolutely believe that dogs are predisposed to personality traits depending on their breed. However the way that predisposition manifests itself in urban mythology is the problem.

A predisposition towards a personality trait is absolutely not, in any way, shape or form, the same as a behavioural guarantee.

There is no guarantee that a german shepherd will attack a burglar just because it's a german shepherd.

There is no guarantee that a golden retriever will be an excellent family dog with your small children just because it's a golden retriever.

There is no guarantee that a pitbull terrier will suddenly turn and savage your children just because it's a pitbull terrier.

Many people don't seem to be able to see past breeding for characteristics - look at all the greyhounds shot because they won't chase, all the labradors who don't make it through assistance dog training, the shepherds who fail police dog training, and the pitbull terriers tortured and abused to make them more aggressive because they just aren't savage enough in the fight ring.

Find a breed you like. Make yourself aware of the predisposition of your breed towards certain personality traits. Train and nurture with those traits in mind - either encouraging them, or discouraging them, or planning to thwart them from the outset (e.g. roofed dog run for your husky, or fence capping to prevent them leaving the yard - install it on day one instead of hoping and waiting until you come home one day to an empty yard and an answering machine message from the rangers - if you're lucky.)

Brilliant post! Couldn't have put it any better!

Further to your GR who won't retrieve, I read the funniest thing in our weekend paper. Excerpt from article "...an idiosyncratic German short haired pointer who defied her genes, being deathly afraid of popping noises and anything gun shaped (walking sticks, furled umbrellas) and insisting on neither fetching nor coming."

[Greytmate]

Some of the comments in the GR attack thread in the news section seemed to imply that the breed of a dog does not matter. That there is no predisposition to certain characteristics in a breed.

We used to get many comments like that here in General a few years ago. When Team Pitbull was more active here. Many people were pushing the idea that there are no bad dogs only bad owners, and that training and socialisation (or lack thereof) are the only things moulding a dog's temperament.

But breeds have been selectively developed to have breed specific traits and I believe that at least 60 % of a dog's temperament is genetic. That doesn't mean that every dog within a breed will have the trait, but it does mean that traits are contained in certain lines, and if you use those lines to breed your dogs, you will end up with the genes that carry those traits.

Good to see that this poll shows that most people understand the concept, because a few years ago I'm sure that poll would have different results.

[Greytmate]

I just noticed in your poll that you include ''pedigree'' with ''training'' and ''circumstances.''

I don't.

Pedigree is breeding, breeding is breed. Pedigree is a record of breeding.

Training and circumstances are environmental factors Pedigree is a genetic factor. They do not belong together, maybe that is skewing the poll results?

[poodlefan]

OF COURSE breed matters.

The whole point of creating breeds was to improve the chances that they'd have certain temperament and physical attributes.

However it pays to remember that:

* this is not a guarantee

* the quality of the dogs used to create pups matters

* environment, socialisation and training probably matter as much.

Edited March 28, 2011 by poodlefan