Champion Class- Should We Have A Seperate Class?

[SparkyTansy]

I probably didn't make my thoughts clear. My suggestion for the Champion Class was that it was for Ch to compete against other Ch for their Gr Ch title. The class is "semi- optional", that is you don't have to enter if your dog is young (?? years), giving a young titled dog time to mature. Once they reach a certain age or ammount of points they have to move into the CH class. They don't compete for BOB so there is no" I'll put the CH up to be safe"

I am one of these people who actually put more consideration into how dogs perform at Breed Specialty Shows under Breed Specialists. Being "on the Pegs" at the Breed Specialty, consistently over a number of years, under a number of breed specialists is probably a better indication of a dogs quality than the number of CH points they have.

I find all the discussion re this class or that class to me is a further indication just how much the show scene is hurting. from comments ranging from the pros and cons of all breed shows and of course the inenevitable comparisons to the specialty shows and their superior judge qualities is the greatest load of b/s I have heard. These comparisons have been around that long they have whiskers.Experience over some 27yrs. have shown me that the majority of " specialist " tragics readily use the old all breed shows to gain their titles which to me is another indication that many are only too happy to lower their standard if it means a title. I believe that all specialist clubs should be disbanded because of the damage they do to the overall dog scene. How many German Shepherd dogs' do you see at all breed shows ? How many Rottweilers do you see at all breed shows ? but check their numbers at specialist shows. Does anybody really believe that we dont' have judges here capable of judging these breeds. Look at both of these breeds and see what the so called experts have done to these once magnificent breeds. Just be greatfull for your beautiful dogs' and enjoy the days out with them,it aint' rocket science.

Sorry but having a country of origin breed warden come and breed my breed for a specialty or a National specialty is certainly not hurting my breed... and it doesnt stop people from entering all Breeds either... but who wouldn't want the assessment done thoroughly by someone who is so trusted in their own country to govern what is good enough to be bred from?

A lot of european judges and UK judges can't come to judge all breeds because they aren't qualified and so it leaves us with specialties. yes there are judges here that can judge our breeds but how many have a genuine interest in the breed and can see what is going on elsewhere in the world?

A lot of WA people have little choice but to enter all breeds and travel across australia for specialties. it doesn't mean we value all breeds any less but that those judges truly involved in the breed are more often going to be at specialties than at all breeds... and if a breed specialist judge does judge an all breeds show you'll see that particular breeds number swell... most of the time.

[klink]

I probably didn't make my thoughts clear. My suggestion for the Champion Class was that it was for Ch to compete against other Ch for their Gr Ch title. The class is "semi- optional", that is you don't have to enter if your dog is young (?? years), giving a young titled dog time to mature. Once they reach a certain age or ammount of points they have to move into the CH class. They don't compete for BOB so there is no" I'll put the CH up to be safe"

I am one of these people who actually put more consideration into how dogs perform at Breed Specialty Shows under Breed Specialists. Being "on the Pegs" at the Breed Specialty, consistently over a number of years, under a number of breed specialists is probably a better indication of a dogs quality than the number of CH points they have.

I find all the discussion re this class or that class to me is a further indication just how much the show scene is hurting. from comments ranging from the pros and cons of all breed shows and of course the inenevitable comparisons to the specialty shows and their superior judge qualities is the greatest load of b/s I have heard. These comparisons have been around that long they have whiskers.Experience over some 27yrs. have shown me that the majority of " specialist " tragics readily use the old all breed shows to gain their titles which to me is another indication that many are only too happy to lower their standard if it means a title. I believe that all specialist clubs should be disbanded because of the damage they do to the overall dog scene. How many German Shepherd dogs' do you see at all breed shows ? How many Rottweilers do you see at all breed shows ? but check their numbers at specialist shows. Does anybody really believe that we dont' have judges here capable of judging these breeds. Look at both of these breeds and see what the so called experts have done to these once magnificent breeds. Just be greatfull for your beautiful dogs' and enjoy the days out with them,it aint' rocket science.

Sorry but having a country of origin breed warden come and breed my breed for a specialty or a National specialty is certainly not hurting my breed... and it doesnt stop people from entering all Breeds either... but who wouldn't want the assessment done thoroughly by someone who is so trusted in their own country to govern what is good enough to be bred from?

A lot of european judges and UK judges can't come to judge all breeds because they aren't qualified and so it leaves us with specialties. yes there are judges here that can judge our breeds but how many have a genuine interest in the breed and can see what is going on elsewhere in the world?

A lot of WA people have little choice but to enter all breeds and travel across australia for specialties. it doesn't mean we value all breeds any less but that those judges truly involved in the breed are more often going to be at specialties than at all breeds... and if a breed specialist judge does judge an all breeds show you'll see that particular breeds number swell... most of the time.

As stated in my earlier post my comments are based on my experience over 27 years of showing in both allbreeds and specialities and have a very good insight into the goings' on of both. Many breeds as you would be aware have been damaged by the anti docking laws and i assume by your lovely photos' this includes your own breed. My main arguement with specialist clubs generally is they are wrongly under the impression that they are always right and that any views other than theirs is so so misguided. I have shown at many specialist shows over the years and have been on the " pegs " most times but as you know you still hear the same complaints etc. from exhibitors...he's hopeless, what would he know, he ran us too much, he didnt' move them enough and so on. The main problem as I see it is that clubs that are under the impression that because a country of origin judge does your breed that he must have a greater knowledge of that breed is again b/s. Another factor with say German origin breeds and there are quite a lot is that clubs sell there souls to the ADRK because they are frightened that they wont' allow these hallowed members of their select group attend and judge our dogs. Dogs' i always thought were to be judged on their ability to perform the work they were bred for not to satisfy the over inflated ego of many judges both international and local. Like allbreed shows specialist shows have the same results...good judges and of course bad judges.I still feel that specialist clubs, for the overall dog scene are divisive by nature and at a time where we are in serious threat from outside lobbies we need a resolute community. We all sit around and bitch about everything, forget about unimportant stuff eg. champion class or not if your dogs are good enough they will beat the best. we have more than enough regulations now.

[espinay2]

Personally I dont mind competing untitled dogs against already titled ones. If they are good enough to win, they will.

I remember the Sydney Royal when they tried splitting out a champions class with challenges offered only for the other classes, though the champions competed for BOB. Entries for the show dropped significantly so they didn't try it again.

Having a numerically smaller breed does have its frustrations, but so does having a breed where the entry is stronger. A good dog can earn a title very quickly in a numerically strong breed. In a smaller one the quality may not be represented by the 6 and 7 point challenges the dog has to make do with. And which is better - a mediocre dog who beats lots of other mediocre dogs in its breed or one high quality standout whithout much competition in another? Each has its plusses and minuses but in the end it all evens out. It is a system that works well for the particular demographics in this country.

What I would rather see introduced is a veterans class. Not sweepstakes, but a class that competes along with the others for BOB etc. Lets highlight health and longevity rather than titles in how we structure our classes.

Edited April 2, 2011 by espinay2

[klink]

Personally I dont mind competing untitled dogs against already titled ones. If they are good enough to win, they will.

I remember the Sydney Royal when they tried splitting out a champions class with challenges offered only for the other classes, though the champions competed for BOB. Entries for the show dropped significantly so they didn't try it again.

Having a numerically smaller breed does have its frustrations, but so does having a breed where the entry is stronger. A good dog can earn a title very quickly in a numerically strong breed. In a smaller one the quality may not be represented by the 6 and 7 point challenges the dog has to make do with. And which is better - a mediocre dog who beats lots of other mediocre dogs in its breed or one high quality standout whithout much competition in another? Each has its plusses and minuses but in the end it all evens out. It is a system that works well for the particular demographics in this country.

What I would rather see introduced is a veterans class. Not sweepstakes, but a class that competes along with the others for BOB etc. Lets highlight health and longevity rather than titles in how we structure our classes.

Well said. Some show people expect to blaze away to victory after victory as soon as they enter the ring but the reality is that like everything else in life we need to serve our apprenticship. If you are very lucky you may fluke a good specimen of your chosen breed first up but usually you dont ' and it is only after some hard and dedicated attention to you breed that you finally become more and more sucessful.I think that a more pressing issue is that judges continue to place below standard specimens instead of having the fortitude to nil award where they feel the need, i am sure that if this happened the quality and the value of the title Australian Champion wouild be enhanced.