Champion Class- Should We Have A Seperate Class?

[Dogsfevr]

[poodlefan]

As I've said in other threads, the introduction of the GR Ch title has, in my opinion, pretty much sent the idea of travelling to avoid all competition to the scrapheap.

You'd have to be damn lucky to get in a car, travel for hours and find yourself at 18 shows in which breeds with reasonable representation at your average show were entirely absent.

[Sayly]

We are getting our Irish back into show coat (which isn't incredibly easy and takes some time, roughly 6 weeks from start to finish) simply because a friend with an Irish is hitting the ring soon and we are so excited about having some competition. Ask most people with rare breeds and they would LOVE more competition. If we had more competition in the ring each week we would show Ruby more often, but there's not much point keeping her in show coat when she's now up in Aust Bred/Open which usually gets knocked out by the BIG/Ru winners anyway.

Having no competition because you have a rare breed is very different to going out of your way to get 6 pointers in a popular breed. Sure it looks the same on the title certificate but the difference is YOU know, the owner, and after all it comes down to YOU deciding whether that dog is good enough to be bred from.

[Gayle.]

There is a difference between a -

a) 6 point champion through no fault of there own (other dogs don't turn up, rare breed etc).

b) 6 point champion with several classes in group/show having beaten other dogs.

c) 6 point champion going out of there way to avoid competition and not winning any classes in group/show.

Yep, I agree. But it's also a title, and on a pedigree and in years to come, it's the SAME title that all the other dogs got...rare or not, beating hundreds of other dogs or beating none. And the same judges signed the certificates. It still looks the same in front of the dogs name. There isn't a Ch. (beat lots of dogs) or Ch. (did it solo).

I am not going to do it, god I have much better things to do on my weekends than chase meaningless titles, but if I did I wouldn't be the first. And I'm sure those people who titled their dogs that way didn't consider it an insult to rare breeds, common breeds or any breeds. They were just more desperate than I would ever be to title a dog.

[SwaY]

So do judges need to non award more often?

The only problem with that is they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

[Rebanne]

Having no competition because you have a rare breed is very different to going out of your way to get 6 pointers in a popular breed. Sure it looks the same on the title certificate but the difference is YOU know, the owner, and after all it comes down to YOU deciding whether that dog is good enough to be bred from.

[Gayle.]

So do judges need to non award more often?

The only problem with that is they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If the judge signs the certificate, they are attesting to the fact that the dog is of a good enough standard to carry the title of champion. And if the dogs racks up enough of those certificates, then lots of judges must think the same. So maybe they do need to non-award more often, or maybe those dogs ARE good enough. It's up to the judges, isn't it?

[Rebanne]

I am not going to do it, god I have much better things to do on my weekends than chase meaningless titles, but if I did I wouldn't be the first. And I'm sure those people who titled their dogs that way didn't consider it an insult to rare breeds, common breeds or any breeds. They were just more desperate than I would ever be to title a dog.

I am sure the people who titled their dogs by avoiding competition don't think it is insulting to breeds with small numbers in the ring. Those type's of people would only be thinking of themselves and thinking how clever they were. I'm sure they can sleep straight in bed, I wouldn't be able to, meaningless title or not.

[Fyrablade]

GayleK :I think its really ignorant of you to call titles meaningless.

Titles mean alot to people whether they are the breeder the owner / handler.

Titles also mean alot to first time show people too. When they title there first showdog.

To a breeder when they bred their first Ch ect......

As for rare breeds unless you own one , show one or know want its like to have one. I think you should'nt comment. IMO.

[Gayle.]

It would be meaningless to me if I only titled my dog on 6 point challenges, given there's quite a lot of dogs being shown in my state. I have no idea if her breeder would think it's meaningless, it's not her dog and she doesn't show her.

Seeing as this is my first show dog, it would be my first title, but that wouldn't make it any less meaningless.

[Rebanne]

It would be meaningless to me if I only titled my dog on 6 point challenges, given there's quite a lot of dogs being shown in my state. I have no idea if her breeder would think it's meaningless, it's not her dog and she doesn't show her.

Seeing as this is my first show dog, it would be my first title, but that wouldn't make it any less meaningless.

if it's so meaningless why are you even posting here? I don't understand why someone would bother talking about something that they clearly don't enjoy.

[poocow]

We are getting our Irish back into show coat (which isn't incredibly easy and takes some time, roughly 6 weeks from start to finish) simply because a friend with an Irish is hitting the ring soon and we are so excited about having some competition. Ask most people with rare breeds and they would LOVE more competition. If we had more competition in the ring each week we would show Ruby more often, but there's not much point keeping her in show coat when she's now up in Aust Bred/Open which usually gets knocked out by the BIG/Ru winners anyway.

Having no competition because you have a rare breed is very different to going out of your way to get 6 pointers in a popular breed. Sure it looks the same on the title certificate but the difference is YOU know, the owner, and after all it comes down to YOU deciding whether that dog is good enough to be bred from.

Lol thats me - there are 4 Fields on Saturday...4 How excitement!

[Rebanne]

Lol thats me - there are 4 Fields on Saturday...4 How excitement!

it is exciting isn't it, even if you get beat

[Gayle.]

It would be meaningless to me if I only titled my dog on 6 point challenges, given there's quite a lot of dogs being shown in my state. I have no idea if her breeder would think it's meaningless, it's not her dog and she doesn't show her.

Seeing as this is my first show dog, it would be my first title, but that wouldn't make it any less meaningless.

if it's so meaningless why are you even posting here? I don't understand why someone would bother talking about something that they clearly don't enjoy.

Who said I don't enjoy it? I drove 13 1/2 hours to show at 4 shows in SA over the Labour Day weekend, I'd hardly have done that if I didn't enjoy it.

And since when did you get to decide who discusses what on this forum?

[Fyrablade]

well you were the one that said and i quote " god i have much better things to do on my weekends than chase meaningless titles. "

A good dog can always be beaten , thats why they need to stay in the cc line up so if you are awarded the cc over the good dogs then you know you've earned it.

[Gayle.]

We are getting our Irish back into show coat (which isn't incredibly easy and takes some time, roughly 6 weeks from start to finish) simply because a friend with an Irish is hitting the ring soon and we are so excited about having some competition. Ask most people with rare breeds and they would LOVE more competition. If we had more competition in the ring each week we would show Ruby more often, but there's not much point keeping her in show coat when she's now up in Aust Bred/Open which usually gets knocked out by the BIG/Ru winners anyway.

Having no competition because you have a rare breed is very different to going out of your way to get 6 pointers in a popular breed. Sure it looks the same on the title certificate but the difference is YOU know, the owner, and after all it comes down to YOU deciding whether that dog is good enough to be bred from.

Lol thats me - there are 4 Fields on Saturday...4 How excitement!

Are you showing Flynn too? Good luck with Moo, who are the other Fields? Relatives?

[RallyValley]

It would be meaningless to me if I only titled my dog on 6 point challenges, given there's quite a lot of dogs being shown in my state. I have no idea if her breeder would think it's meaningless, it's not her dog and she doesn't show her.

Seeing as this is my first show dog, it would be my first title, but that wouldn't make it any less meaningless.

You either think your dog is unworthy of CC's OR you think judges are unable to decide if your dog has merit to be worthy of the title champion enough to sign a certificate saying as much. Either way it's your loss. I personally think if 18 judges, who had to study the standard which dogs are judged against to become a judge,decide to sign a piece of paper saying my dog is worthy of becoming a Ch, it does mean something, it means 18 people went over my dog and found no disqualifying faults, temprament issues and my dog moves without major unsoundness. Showing is also a test of temprament in some ways, it means 18 people looked in my dog's mouth, touched it's testicles, 18 times it was in a crowded run waiting to go in for class in group or BIG and didn't show any aversive temprement issues. It means I was able to train my dog to be able to gait around the ring and stack up. My dog went out to shows that many times and had socialization expirences of being in crates in crowds ect... means a lot to me, much more then no title.

However YOU are using your own thoughts about 6pt CC's to imply 100's of rare breeds out there or people who live away from the bigger shows and show at smaller local shows are unworthy of thier points or people in states that don't have many people showing.

[poodlefan]

Who said I don't enjoy it? I drove 13 1/2 hours to show at 4 shows in SA over the Labour Day weekend, I'd hardly have done that if I didn't enjoy it.

And since when did you get to decide who discusses what on this forum?

Honestly Gayle, If you do enjoy showng, I'd hate to see what you say about something you don't enjoy. I'm not sure I've ever read a positive statement about it from you.

Moving on.

Edited March 29, 2011 by poodlefan

[poocow]

Lol thats me - there are 4 Fields on Saturday...4 How excitement!

it is exciting isn't it, even if you get beat

Hell yes! My bitch has had competition the past 3 weeks (only 1 other bitch) but hey its better than nothing and even judges give you a startled look like wow 2 of you!

Plus its good practice for the Royal as well. I love having competition.

I've only once had no other Aussies for Flynn to go against - I was shocked - and I didn't go to the show expecting it!

[poocow]

We are getting our Irish back into show coat (which isn't incredibly easy and takes some time, roughly 6 weeks from start to finish) simply because a friend with an Irish is hitting the ring soon and we are so excited about having some competition. Ask most people with rare breeds and they would LOVE more competition. If we had more competition in the ring each week we would show Ruby more often, but there's not much point keeping her in show coat when she's now up in Aust Bred/Open which usually gets knocked out by the BIG/Ru winners anyway.

Having no competition because you have a rare breed is very different to going out of your way to get 6 pointers in a popular breed. Sure it looks the same on the title certificate but the difference is YOU know, the owner, and after all it comes down to YOU deciding whether that dog is good enough to be bred from.

Lol thats me - there are 4 Fields on Saturday...4 How excitement!

Are you showing Flynn too? Good luck with Moo, who are the other Fields? Relatives?

Yep I show both of them wherever I go (unless its a specialty etc).

Everyone is a relative in the Field world pretty much

She will be against her half-brother and 2 cousins