Gayle. Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I know what you explained to me but I've thought about it since and it doesn't sit right with me. The judges don't justify thier choice, they just make it and it's final. Why on earth would ringside gossipmongers be influencing them that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy saxon Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am also of the mind if it works don't fix it, I have two rare breeds and most of the time will only pick up 6 points but in saying that when we do compete in a class with more numbers he generally beats these dogs who are Grand Champions and how exciting is that knowing that a dog in puppy class can beat other dogs that have their Grand Championship. My boy is now titled and he achieved over 100 points well before he was 12 months old and a number of these points were 10 pointers which is huge for a rare breed, he then had to get another 25 points which he did in two weekends against some stiff competition, so he was titled just after his frist birthday and I am very proud of that. My other rare breed is only a baby puppy and he is beating older puppies with limited showing and won a best baby puppy in show. He has had lovely comments from every judge he has been under so again I am extremely happy with my boy. In summary I think the current system is fine and hopefully one day it will be our Grand Champions people will be talking about..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.Earn it! Beat the best to be the best. exactly !!! let's not "cheapen" our Ch titles. I agree..it's a big buzz when your dog gets chosen over one that is already titled!! Should be 'bonus " points for that! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It's the only activity/sport/hobby I can think of where novices, beginners and newcomers are expected to compete against A-graders and have to win to get anywhere. When you have a dog of the breed that comes up against Gr Ch's each week, it's demoralising and it has actually turned a lot of people away from showing regularly. The same thing would happen if it was made that rare breeds receive no points for not beating anything. We just do not have the numbers in a whole heap of breeds for much competition here in Austalia. 6 or 7 point challenges are it the majority of the time, and not by choice for most of us! Each and every judge has to sign their name that each and every challenge winner is worthy of their champion title. im currently handling a rare breed... and i totally agree people give me crap cause she rarely has competition... but at the end of the day she fits the standard and is worthy of the title otherwise she would be non awarded!! and rightly so!! When I titled a rare breed in the mid 1980's many a judge told me that my bitch was an excellent specimen who deserved the CC and that if they didn't think so they would not have presented it to her. So yes, rightly so and don't take the crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmadi Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have always been in favour of having a Champions class. I understand the thought that why should a dog not need to beat the champions to become a champion but there are many shows when dogs can become a champion without ever beating another dog anyway. I think if the Champions were in a seperate class the entry of non champions would increase which in the long run may make it harder for dogs to become champions without beating other dogs. In many breeds there may be a dog that wins consistantly and other exhibitors start to drop off in the breed. Look at any breed and as soon as a dog appears that wins all the time, no matter what breed it is others show a lot less. Ian I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.Earn it! Beat the best to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keshwar Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It's the only activity/sport/hobby I can think of where novices, beginners and newcomers are expected to compete against A-graders and have to win to get anywhere. When you have a dog of the breed that comes up against Gr Ch's each week, it's demoralising and it has actually turned a lot of people away from showing regularly. The thing is that unless they are starting out with an adult dog novices aren't competing against GrChs or even champions. Most people start out with a baby puppy and work their way up. This is one of the great things about our system IMO. Beginners and novices get to gain experience working their way up through the age classes. I show a very competitive breed and I have to tell you that my boys class in group and even class in breed wins are exciting to me and keep me going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolzseinrotts Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Wow so many responses. I think it is great we can all discuss this topic and we all have our own take on it. I put it out there to get a wider response on it and it has certainly generated a lot of responses. I have just wondered what we can do to try and keep Dog Shows alive, the numbers are dropping, so many people have their own ideas as to why, I think we need to start looking at how we can keep our shows for the future. We have all noticed the numbers dropping off, what do we do to keep people interested???? I will add for clarity - I have no problem putting my dogs up against and competing against already titled dogs, it is the way the system is, the titled dogs are not unbeatable and to come away with a BOB is a great feeling. I look forward to reading many more responses. :D Edited March 28, 2011 by Stolzseinrotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Do you show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstaff_Ambition Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 No seperate class, the titled dogs worked to where they are and so should every other dog. If a dog can't be competitive with the Ch & GrCh's to gain it's title it's probably not going to be competitive with them in the champions class (when or if it gets there) and what does that say about it's title. Why wouldn't a rare breed get a look in for group? If they are of a good enough standard, they should have the same opportunity as every other dog in the lineup....unless some dogs there are clearly better examples of their breed than others. The same would apply in the breed ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Do you show? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have always been in favour of having a Champions class. I understand the thought that why should a dog not need to beat the champions to become a champion but there are many shows when dogs can become a champion without ever beating another dog anyway. I think if the Champions were in a seperate class the entry of non champions would increase which in the long run may make it harder for dogs to become champions without beating other dogs. Ian replying to the bold bit wouldn't make any difference to me and my breed. The only way I could have regular competition is to move to Sydney! And I ain't doing that I show a breed I want to live with, I live in a area I want to live in. I've gone all over trying to get competition, it rarely happen's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Do you show? yes I'm assuming with your Australian Shepherds, so given the number of Aussie's around, how do you find the competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Do you show? yes I'm assuming with your Australian Shepherds, so given the number of Aussie's around, how do you find the competition? only one of my Aussies and I haven't shown him locally aside from a members comp on the weekend, since the speciality last year when he was in minor puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I know what you explained to me but I've thought about it since and it doesn't sit right with me. The judges don't justify thier choice, they just make it and it's final. Why on earth would ringside gossipmongers be influencing them that much? Cause sadly some judges are like that and gossip is important to them. These are the judges I try and avoid. Ive been showing for 3 years now and I am slowly learning what judges like my dogs over others and which ones dont. Judges opinions can vary greatly, if we all liked the same shit showing would be a boring world. I am in a breed where numbers are growing rapidly, there are a number of young grand champions. These dogs are nice, they are presented well, but they arnt unbeatable. I am against any sort of championship class because as some one pointed out a judge shouldnt know who is a champ or grand champ and having a class just for them make its pretty obvious whos who. Honestly thou if a dog is going in and loosing time and time again, cant win a class let alone a a challange or class in group then maybe that dog shouldnt be in the ring? I get that this is an issue for some as they arnt going to rehome their pet but fact is it might be so and if you dont want to rehome then that choice is on you. You either desex and get another puppy and try again or if you dont have the room then maybe showing isnt for you. Showing and breeding is something Ive decided I want to commit my time to so have decided that I have to be very critical of where am at and where Im heading and if a dog doesnt fit into that then he or she will be placed it a very special pet home, this might make me look like a monster to some but its how I want to do things. In saying all that though there are dogs who will win my heart and no matter how big of a winner they are they wont be going anywhere! As far as rare breeds go and judges its a hard thing. Numbers can play such a huge part in a judges choice. If theres 25 goldens and only one clumber spaniel the golden choosen would want to be a bloody nice dog and the clumber would have to be one stunning peice of dog to beat it as the goldens already beaten 24 other dogs and yet the clumber has beaten nothing for a judge that isnt quite sure they are going to go with the numbers, and thats another aspect of why low number breeds can be difficult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It might never change but it's still an interesting subject to discuss. Good to hear others opinions. Do you show? yes I'm assuming with your Australian Shepherds, so given the number of Aussie's around, how do you find the competition? only one of my Aussies and I haven't shown him locally aside from a members comp on the weekend, since the speciality last year when he was in minor puppy. So how did you find the competition in Aussies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 There hasn't been any competition as I haven't shown him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 There hasn't been any competition as I haven't shown him. So you've shown once?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 No I've shown him about 8 times I think, but 4 of those shows were interstate, and before that I showed my bitch for a couple of years but she hated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.Earn it! Beat the best to be the best. exactly !!! let's not "cheapen" our Ch titles. How much cheaper could it get? I have two six point champions! I'm not happy about that, but can't help having a breed that isn't common and never has competition. In the dogs defence, they are class in group winners (with competition) however since those awards don't go towards their ch. title, it's pretty scant arguement. but in the end, they both are titled and never beat another dog to get there....that's cheap! Putting a championship class in, won't affect me here in any form because of the numbers, however having a champion class is common place for me and I wouldn't have any issues with it, regardless of whether my breed is popular or not. The ONLY problem I've always had, is that the judges tend to put the dogs up for best of breed from that class simply becaus they know they are champions and not all those dogs are better than the non championed exhibits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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