Champion Class- Should We Have A Seperate Class?

[Stolzseinrotts]

After talking to many people over the last few months I am curious to put it out there to see what others think.

Should there be a seperate class for Champions that would compete only against other Champions for points, allowing a Grand Champion title and beyond.

Which would leave non titled dogs to compete for points towards their Champion title and once obtained you would have to enter a Champion Class to show your dog.

Would you be more likely to enter more dogs in order to increase your chances in the non titled classes to get the points needed for a Champion Title??

The conversations that I have had with many owners and breeders of all breeds of dogs have indicated to me that they would enter more dogs if this was an option to getting the 100 points needed for the title. Many have indicated that they only want to get the 100 points and then go on and do other disciplines where their dogs / and or keep more dogs in the ring.

Many have also said it is near impossible in some breeds to get points as you have dogs out there being shown every weekend that have amassed in excess of 5000 plus points and counting.

Would you consider the above option a viable consideration to be put to your State Canine Council and then onto the ANKC??

Do you think that by offering these classes that it would increase numbers of exhibits being shown and there fore help out those clubs that put on the shows and in a way help those smaller clubs out for "numbers" ??

I am very interested to hear your opinions on this topic.

I look forward to reading the replies.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Stolzseinrotts

[murve]

After talking to many people over the last few months I am curious to put it out there to see what others think.

Should there be a seperate class for Champions that would compete only against other Champions for points, allowing a Grand Champion title and beyond.

Which would leave non titled dogs to compete for points towards their Champion title and once obtained you would have to enter a Champion Class to show your dog.

Would you be more likely to enter more dogs in order to increase your chances in the non titled classes to get the points needed for a Champion Title??

The conversations that I have had with many owners and breeders of all breeds of dogs have indicated to me that they would enter more dogs if this was an option to getting the 100 points needed for the title. Many have indicated that they only want to get the 100 points and then go on and do other disciplines where their dogs / and or keep more dogs in the ring.

Many have also said it is near impossible in some breeds to get points as you have dogs out there being shown every weekend that have amassed in excess of 5000 plus points and counting.

Would you consider the above option a viable consideration to be put to your State Canine Council and then onto the ANKC??

Do you think that by offering these classes that it would increase numbers of exhibits being shown and there fore help out those clubs that put on the shows and in a way help those smaller clubs out for "numbers" ??

I am very interested to hear your opinions on this topic.

I look forward to reading the replies.

You got my vote that the Aus Ch dogs should have their own class , & let the up & comming Ch have a go to get their 100 points to become Ch. If this would happen I would enter my guys in more shows

[-Megz-]

I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.

Earn it!

Beat the best to be the best.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I would only agree with this if it then became a requirement to beat a certain number of dogs to earn your title. That requirement would then put a title out of the reach of rare breeds in a country like Australia with a small population base.

IMO the one thing that saves us as Australians from the accusations about not having to beat a dog to title is that we are all in together, the Gr Ch's with the young dogs.

Overseas some countries may split them out, but they also require you to be competitive in other ways. Some places have limited numbers of CCs available dependent on entries. Nearly all require you to beat a certain number of dogs to title.

I'm inclined to agree with Megz tho', and there are some pretty hard to beat Gr Ch's in my breed so it's not an armchair consideration.

[Dellcara]

I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.

Earn it!

Beat the best to be the best.

exactly !!! let's not "cheapen" our Ch titles.

[Miranda]

I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.

Earn it!

Beat the best to be the best.

I'm inclined to agree with this, but there's no doubt that removing titled dogs from ordinary classes would encourage more exhibitors especially in numerically small breeds where a few kennels produce dogs of excellent quality and these dogs are shown every weekend.

Having a separate champions class is, of course, the system used in the U.S., but dogs there are required to beat a certain number of dogs a certain number of times before they can gain their title and exhibitors often get together and arrange to attend a particular show/cluster so there will be enough dogs present at the show to ensure a major in dogs and bitches. The number of points required for a major varies from state to state depending on how numerically strong the breed is in that particular area. I think we may need to do something similar here if we were to adopt that system otherwise as Dellcara says, we could 'cheapen' our titles and let's face it Australian titles are already looked on as inferior in some countries because of our 6 point challenges.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Miranda

[Dogsfevr]

I have the same opinion on Champions and Grand Champions or those showing towards those titles.

Earn it!

Beat the best to be the best

exactly !!! let's not "cheapen" our Ch titles.

Those who want it easy are those who can't win .

Those who seem to complain the most are those who live in states where they have so many shows & choices & they simply don't appreciate how easy they have it.

In my state until mid July we have around 6 Champ shows

There will never be the perfect system but what we have is fair for all states & fair for those people with rare,numerically small breeds who shouldn't be penalized to suit those with breeds that weekend week out get 25 point CC or BOB.

I show breeds that aren't rare but a very numerically small ,one is the only rep but i am grateful he is a BIS winner & easily holds his own in the ring

[Dogsfevr]

But we also now in the US they will enter scrubbers to make a major

[Miranda]

In the U.K. dogs have to compete for their title against the champions and big winners in each breed and they have huge entries at every show that offers challenges, so having to beat the best to gain your title doesn't appear to deter exhibitors over there.

[Miranda]

But we also now in the US they will enter scrubbers to make a major

Yes I agree showdog, I think if we do it here we may have more dogs at shows, but there's also a possibility that the quality of our champions may suffer in the process.

[Sandra777]

Nope.

If you can't beat the ''best'' in the breed how can you consider your dog to be a champion?

There's far too many champions in a lot of breeds now in comparison to the numbers of registrations.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

In the U.K. dogs have to compete for their title against the champions and big winners in each breed and they have huge entries at every show that offers challenges, so having to beat the best to gain your title doesn't appear to deter exhibitors over there.

True, but they have a much bigger population base to work from, a much smaller geographic area to travel across and a much more pro-show culture. And even they are facing the problem of dropping numbers. It would be interesting to compare their registrations per head of population with ours.

[Dogsfevr]

'showdog' post='5224307' date='28th Mar 2011 - 11:49 AM']But we also now in the US they will enter scrubbers to make a major

Yes I agree showdog, I think if we do it here we may have more dogs at shows, but there's also a possibility that the quality of our champions may suffer in the process.

Looking at pictures from overseas & some video i think it is also safe to say in Australia we do have great examples of the breed in comparison & certainly a better consistency all the way through .

I do look at some of the titled dogs overseas & think

[Miranda]

I do look at some of the titled dogs overseas & think

Me too. Especially when you've heard about all the winning they've been doing and then you see a photo and, as you said

[Havasneeze]

I believe that in the UK, dependent on the number of dogs registered within the breed per year, there is more than one CC per sex available at shows. I think that this would be a more worthwhile way to go, particularly for those breeds who have large numbers. Yes, it can be difficult for good dogs to beat the GR CH & CH dogs that are shown week in & week out. Yes, there are some lovely examples of numerically large numbered breeds who are not titled but are worthy of the title CH. Perhaps this is a better way to go....

[Rebanne]

I believe that in the UK, dependent on the number of dogs registered within the breed per year, there is more than one CC per sex available at shows. I think that this would be a more worthwhile way to go, particularly for those breeds who have large numbers. Yes, it can be difficult for good dogs to beat the GR CH & CH dogs that are shown week in & week out. Yes, there are some lovely examples of numerically large numbered breeds who are not titled but are worthy of the title CH. Perhaps this is a better way to go....

and what about when you are the only one entered 98 % of the time? It's got to be reasonably fair to all breeds. If I had to travel to Queensland or WA to compete against others I would never show ever again. I certainly don't have the time, space or money to keep a kennel full of dogs so they can compete against each other, "creating majors".

[Sandra777]

I believe that in the UK, dependent on the number of dogs registered within the breed per year, there is more than one CC per sex available at shows.

No. The number of sets of CCs varies from breed to breed across the year but always only one set per show.

Another thing in the UK, there is only one set of CCs available in a breed in any one day.

This is obviously no use in Australia but when you look in the journal and see three or four shows on a single day within striking distance of where you live, you do have to wonder about the ease titles are given out in SOME areas!

[Havasneeze]

I believe that in the UK, dependent on the number of dogs registered within the breed per year, there is more than one CC per sex available at shows.

No. The number of sets of CCs varies from breed to breed across the year but always only one set per show.

Another thing in the UK, there is only one set of CCs available in a breed in any one day.

This is obviously no use in Australia but when you look in the journal and see three or four shows on a single day within striking distance of where you live, you do have to wonder about the ease titles are given out in SOME areas!

Thanks for that, seems that someone has fed me some misinformation.

[Havasneeze]

I believe that in the UK, dependent on the number of dogs registered within the breed per year, there is more than one CC per sex available at shows. I think that this would be a more worthwhile way to go, particularly for those breeds who have large numbers. Yes, it can be difficult for good dogs to beat the GR CH & CH dogs that are shown week in & week out. Yes, there are some lovely examples of numerically large numbered breeds who are not titled but are worthy of the title CH. Perhaps this is a better way to go....

and what about when you are the only one entered 98 % of the time? It's got to be reasonably fair to all breeds. If I had to travel to Queensland or WA to compete against others I would never show ever again. I certainly don't have the time, space or money to keep a kennel full of dogs so they can compete against each other, "creating majors".

I wasn't suggesting taking away the CC when there is one dog entered, hence it has a pretty good chance of getting that CC unless it is non-awarded. I was thinking more along the lines of having more CC's available for numerally larger numbers.

[experiencedfun]

To be a champion you need to beat the best currently being shown. If you cant beat them then either your dog is not mature enough yet or plainly not good enough. If you can only get a title by taking away the competition what is the point.........