sandgrubber Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) When I moved from WA to a vineyard in the coastal mountains of California, I brought two Labbie girls with me. It's rainy season, an both of 'em have taken to staying out in the rain, digging holes and catching gophers (abundant ground-dwelling rodents . . .rat-sized). Fine with me . . . gopher eat roots and that's bad for the vineyard . . . . (although it's not nice having a wet, muddy dog get in the bed, so I'm having to set some limits). Problem is, I can't tell how much nutrition my girls are getting from their carnivore habits, and they're putting on weight. The ground is saturated and I think nests are getting flooded all over the place, hence the girls have a lot to catch and eat. Some people say a 'prey diet' is healthy. The girls seem very happy hunting. But how do you set limits? I'm a softy and, being Labbies, they look at me with big pleading eyes if I cut back on their rations. Is it ok to let them get fat in a time of plenty and then take it off when the ground is dry and hard and their hunting is more work with less reward? Edited March 26, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 When I moved from WA to a vineyard in the coastal mountains of California, I brought two Labbie girls with me.It's rainy season, an both of 'em have taken to staying out in the rain, digging holes and catching gophers (abundant ground-dwelling rodents . . .rat-sized). Fine with me . . . gopher eat roots and that's bad for the vineyard . . . . (although it's not nice having a wet, muddy dog get in the bed, so I'm having to set some limits). Problem is, I can't tell how much nutrition my girls are getting from their carnivore habits, and they're putting on weight. The ground is saturated and I think nests are getting flooded all over the place, hence the girls have a lot to catch and eat. Some people say a 'prey diet' is healthy. The girls seem very happy hunting. But how do you set limits? I'm a softy and, being Labbies, they look at me with big pleading eyes if I cut back on their rations. Is it ok to let them get fat in a time of plenty and then take it off when the ground is dry and hard and their hunting is more work with less reward? Its probably the best diet they could be on. Id cut back on their rations and see how they go,but I dont like fat dogs and I know how yuck I feel if I put on too much weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Poor gophers But great food for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Sounds like a beautiful place to live.. :D My views are that I don't agree at all with any dogs/cats killing wildlife. There are plenty of great diets out there, Barf etc. for dogs without resorting to killing animals even if they do make holes in the vineyards... also you can keep an eye on exactly what they are eating and how much and there are no parasites, worms, diseases etc. in a 'home made' meal. I also prefer my dogs to have some self control, and I too have gundogs and have had many terriers so understand this can be a challenge ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You have rabies over there dont you? Wouldnt that be a bit of a risk eating the wildlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 The main transmitters of rabies are foxes, bats, skunks and raccoons. Any mammal can get it, but it's very rare in rodents and lagomorphs. I was in an area infested with rabies in Mexico once and someone got bitten by a mouse (told him not to sleep on the floor). Sheepish radio through to Campo Uno to ask if one could catch rabies from mice resulted in much hilarity. Of course, a week later a rabid fox ambled into camp and stole some items and had a good old chew on them. Some investigation eventually revealed that you couldn't catch it from handling things that have been chewed on by a rabid animal. They think. Despite the fellow who got attacked by a rabid Bobcat having the hospital incinerate his clothes just to be on the safe side. I think it's not that well understood. No one really wants to take chances with it considering how deadly it is. Theoretically transmission can occur if saliva from the infected animal comes into contact with a mucous membrane from the non-infected animal (i.e. mouth, eye, you know where etc.). But if you consider a) how rare rabies is in animals other than bats in the first place; b) how rare it is in rodents; and c) the lack of definitive cases where transmission through ingestion has occurred, it seems like a pretty minor risk. I'd be way more concerned about the dogs picking up internal or external parasites from the gophers. I'd be worming them every 6 weeks. And cutting back their usual rations. No reason for them to get pudgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'd be way more concerned about the dogs picking up internal or external parasites from the gophers. I'd be worming them every 6 weeks. And cutting back their usual rations. No reason for them to get pudgy. agree, let them be dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I was wondering if they are huntiing gophers how do you know they are not eating other animals? With worming, they can be wormed and if they eat an animal they can get worms again, through eggs etc, straight away.. I'm afraid I am a softy and no way could I see my dogs hunt and kill to eat when I can feed them myself. I dont see this as domestic dogs being dogs. If they are fat, it seems like that dont have the self control of wild dogs who only kill when they are hungry. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Monah, I think sometimes it's difficult when there are a lot of wild animals around that are not terribly hard for a dog to catch. I know someone in the States with a mole hunter. He kills a lot of moles, but they are in his yard just waiting to be dug up. His owner can't let him out in the yard without expecting that he will dig up and kill some moles. I think moles are awesome and wish I had some in my yard even if they do make a nuisance of themselves, but there's only so much you can do. The dog has to go outside where the moles are living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 i see it the same as rabbits... i dont like feral rabbits so i have no problem with the dogs getting them when they are outside.. it is natural to them shows their strong instinct I was worried about Myxo but found out that dogs are not affected so thats a bonus! and i guess these gophers are the same they are feral and potentially destroying the vines they may well be clever like the bunnies and soon learn that her property is no place to make a den? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Rabies is a non-issue cause the dogs are vaccinated and the vaccine is very effective (hence vaccination campaigns in Bali). Most vineyards around here trap gophers, they are soooo abundant. I can't see that dogs hunting is any worse for the gophers than getting caught in a trap. There's no other wildlife for them to catch . . .well, maybe birds. The gopher population supports lots of natural predators . . . at least three species of hawks, two species of owls, bob-cats, mountain lions (probably eat more deer than gophers), foxes, and coyotes. The coyotes carry parvo and distemper but there has been no report of rabies here. We have deer fencing and no deer come on the property (and the dogs don't go off). Rabbits and squirrels are around, but I've seen neither on my property. And then there are skunks and raccoons . . . but I've seen neither and hope not to. Edited March 27, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 I think the wild animals around here put on weight when prey is abundant and loose weight in summer and autumn, when hunting is harder. I was wondering if they are huntiing gophers how do you know they are not eating other animals? With worming, they can be wormed and if they eat an animal they can get worms again, through eggs etc, straight away..I'm afraid I am a softy and no way could I see my dogs hunt and kill to eat when I can feed them myself. I dont see this as domestic dogs being dogs. If they are fat, it seems like that dont have the self control of wild dogs who only kill when they are hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) I think the wild carnivores around here put on weight when prey is abundant and loose weight in summer and autumn, when hunting is harder. If they are fat, it seems like that dont have the self control of wild dogs who only kill when they are hungry. Edited March 27, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 We used to cut down our GSD's food when it was bunny season as he'd catch at least one a day and eat them. Similarly, the cat would be put on rations as he would raid the burrows, not to mention birds, rats and mice and would not need extra food or he'd live up to his name of Podge. Life is very different when you live rural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Im glad about the rabies, thanks for the info, its really interesting. Bob used to catch bunnies all the time, I used to worry about the mixo, but he just got healthier, so they wernt bad for him. I think is good that dogs can do what they are naturally good at. I have rabbits in my yard up here, they dont last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 We used to cut down our GSD's food when it was bunny season as he'd catch at least one a day and eat them.Similarly, the cat would be put on rations as he would raid the burrows, not to mention birds, rats and mice and would not need extra food or he'd live up to his name of Podge. Life is very different when you live rural True, I;ve llived rural nearly all my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 We used to cut down our GSD's food when it was bunny season as he'd catch at least one a day and eat them.Similarly, the cat would be put on rations as he would raid the burrows, not to mention birds, rats and mice and would not need extra food or he'd live up to his name of Podge. Life is very different when you live rural True, I;ve llived rural nearly all my life. My rotty used to catch and eat possums that came in to eat my rose bushes at night. All I would find in the morning was a lot of fur and the possums claws, also a part of its gut he didnt like. This was in NZ where there are 7 possums for every Kiwi and they are not protected. It was a very balanced meal for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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