Golden Retriever Attacks 4 People

[poochiemama]

I've just read this story in horror and also read the twists and turns in this thread...

It's a terrible story, we don't really know the facts. It makes me sad though, all this talk about 'Buster wouldn't be cut so much slack if he wasn't a golden retriever'...so WHAT if people are supporting Buster because he's a golden retriever? ALL dogs deserve this sort of support; just because certain breeds don't get this sort of public support does not mean we should begrudge golden retrievers or labradors. Sometimes I think goldies/labs get a sort of reverse-racism from the restricted breed dog owners and that really annoys me ; I have a golden retriever and a labrador and I also love bully breeds. My point is that the same standards should apply to all dogs and if we, as dog owners, are split amongst ourselves in this debate, talking about 'why should goldies get this treatment when other breeds don't' , then there is no hope for the general public to become more educated. Saying it's unfair for goldies to get a second chance and to have public support when other breeds don't get this chance is like saying 'it's not fair to feed the children in Australia, because the children in India are starving.'

I really do hope Buster gets a fair go and I'm praying that he gets some sort of behavioural assessment at least.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

poochiemama, for me, supporting Buster because he is, at least allegedly, a Golden Retriever, is a problem because I'd consider that a reinforcement of breed bias which is what BSL is predicated on. This is quite different to supporting Buster on grounds which are not motivated by breed. I personally do not support routine euthanasia of dogs which have been involved in attacks, a position which I have been criticized for more than once on this forum, so my support for Buster is not at the expense of other breeds, and in fact promotes breed equality.

Whereas, for example, if you look at the general tone of the comments in response to articles covering this story on at least one of the news sites (I only looked at one) you will probably see the type of support which I condemn in the strongest terms. They are promoting breed prejudice and furthering ignorance, that kind of help is the sort I think we can do without.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Lo Pan

[geo]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

[Odin-Genie]

Question: If Busta was your dog and this had happened at your place, would you leave Busta alone at the house to be stared at by journos and passers-by, and then to be picked up by complete strangers from the council? Or would you stay back till you could make sure that Busta was ok and call a friend/family member to be at the house before you left with the ambulance (they need not necessarily be with Busta if there was a danger that he could bite again)?

That's one thing that kept nagging at me ever since I saw the news. Why wasn't anyone trying to calm the dog? Why were journos allowed to photograph him while he obviously looked extremely hassled?

Or is it unfair to expect the owners to care about the dog's welfare in this situation?

[Leelaa17]

I have read some of this thread and please, please correct me if I am wrong... but it seems that everyone is extremely supportive of Buster (myself included) and I think that is great. However, when I read a lot of other threads when this sort of thing happens - such as a bully breed or huskies attacking - it seems to much less supportive...... I have NEVER (and I haven't been a member for very long so this is only in my experience) but I have never seen a thread where people are talking about getting help for the dog... a lot of it is based around putting the dog down and everyone on that particular thread agrees with putting the dog down...

yet on this thread I think the majority of us want Buster to at least get an assessment to see if he is an 'aggressive dog'.

I dont know.. I just think that a lot of the time dogs don't get the kind of support that Buster is getting and I would love to see that change.

I am a bit funny... and I think very different to a lot of the dog lovers on here because whenever I hear about a dog being put down because of an attack I disagree with it (that is me and I see where people come from when they DO want to dog to be put down)... but I just hate to think that a dog is being put down for something that MIGHT not be its fault... I'm strictly a 'no kill policy' kinda person... and I do respect that others have different opinions to me and that is perfectly ok... But I would much rather see a dog at least have a second chance at life instead of everyone (not people on this forum) being like 'oh, its attacked someone for the first time in its life with no previous signs of aggression, it needs to be put down immediately.' I do realsie that some attacks aren't provoked etc....

This thread just seems different that's all - and to be perfectly honest I think it DOES have something to do with Buster being a GR. If this sort of thing happened with a bully breed I am sure that most people would be like 'definitely put it down'... which is sad because I think every dog deserves a second chance - not just 'generally good natured' dogs.

[Leelaa17]

poochiemama, for me, supporting Buster because he is, at least allegedly, a Golden Retriever, is a problem because I'd consider that a reinforcement of breed bias which is what BSL is predicated on. This is quite different to supporting Buster on grounds which are not motivated by breed. I personally do not support routine euthanasia of dogs which have been involved in attacks, a position which I have been criticized for more than once on this forum, so my support for Buster is not at the expense of other breeds, and in fact promotes breed equality.

Whereas, for example, if you look at the general tone of the comments in response to articles covering this story on at least one of the news sites (I only looked at one) you will probably see the type of support which I condemn in the strongest terms. They are promoting breed prejudice and furthering ignorance, that kind of help is the sort I think we can do without.

I completely agree with you. And it is nice to (FINALLY) see that someone doesn't agree with the killing of a dog because it has attacked. I have never met anyone else who agrees with me and I am sure you do get criticised as well because a lot of people on this forum do think it is ok - and everyone of course is entitled to their own opinions! Including you and i!

And I agree with everything else you said as well - you pretty much said exactly what I did in my previous post except in a simpler, non-rambling way.

I think that everyone's reaction to this is because of the breed which is not a good thing unless we all start supporting the assessment of other breeds that attack as well.

[Quickasyoucan]

Is there any news on what has happened. I can't seem to find any recent updates.

[Erny]

I completely agree with you. And it is nice to (FINALLY) see that someone doesn't agree with the killing of a dog [just] because it has attacked.

Quote amended by me by addition of word "just".

Don't know where you've been, Leelaa ..... but there are many people on DOL who don't condone killing a dog just because of an attack, and before proper assessment.

[Erny]

Is there any news on what has happened. I can't seem to find any recent updates.

This is a reply someone received from the Mayor, in response to an email :

Thank you for your email and message in support of Buster the Golden Retriever.

I am advised the circumstances of the attacks are currently being investigated and a decision about the future of Buster will be made on the recommendations of those investigations.

...

As an animal lover, I understand the views and feelings that have been expressed by many people including yourself. Can I assure you any decision that is taken in this matter will have been made after careful consideration of the evidence and in an effort to ensure the safety of our community.

Thank you again for your thoughts and email.

Kind regards'

My understanding is that this response is as recent as today.

[Quickasyoucan]

Is there any news on what has happened. I can't seem to find any recent updates.

This is a reply someone received from the Mayor, in response to an email :

Thank you for your email and message in support of Buster the Golden Retriever.

I am advised the circumstances of the attacks are currently being investigated and a decision about the future of Buster will be made on the recommendations of those investigations.

...

As an animal lover, I understand the views and feelings that have been expressed by many people including yourself. Can I assure you any decision that is taken in this matter will have been made after careful consideration of the evidence and in an effort to ensure the safety of our community.

Thank you again for your thoughts and email.

Kind regards'

My understanding is that this response is as recent as today.

Thanks, I hope that due process is followed.

[moosmum]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

I think you misunderstood Joe.

If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation.

He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him .

He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions.

Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds.

Edited March 29, 2011 by moosmum

[JoeK]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

For many years I train the dog to fight people in the services and personal protection, so knowing little bit of the trait in aggression, yes? It takes particular trait for dogs to engage and bite if not driven by the fear response in provocation and the dog hes active in aggression it happens more likely in the breeds with the fighting trait than breeds without this trait.

A dog with drive in sharpness, civil, social and defense aggression will run across the road and bite people and animals from this traits, no problems and people say no this is bull to defend the breed they liking, ok, I accept people liking particular breed say the breed has nothing to do with the aggression is natural response from them fair enough? Not all dogs of these breeds having the fighting traits are reactive is true, but some are because of many variables in the dog or his upbringing, but what I say is this. Very easy to trian the dog with fighting trait to run across the road and bite people, very difficult to train the dog with no fighting trait to do it, even training from prey drive, they will chase the people and bark, but takes a fighting trait to engage and bite.

Joe

[Leelaa17]

I completely agree with you. And it is nice to (FINALLY) see that someone doesn't agree with the killing of a dog [just] because it has attacked.

Quote amended by me by addition of word "just".

Don't know where you've been, Leelaa ..... but there are many people on DOL who don't condone killing a dog just because of an attack, and before proper assessment.

I actually said in a previous post (the one directly before this post you've quoted) and I specifically said that I haven't been a member for very long and I don't know what everyone else thinks but what I have seen is that people tend to not agree with my views (which is fine of course)...

So I haven't read every single post and every single response to a thread so I didn't know that there were others out there who agreed with my 'no kill' thing. And it is nice to know there ARE more people. Maybe you should read the previous post before you ask me where I've been because clearly I haven't been anywhere much.

[geo]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

I think you misunderstood Joe.

If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation.

He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him .

He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions.

Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds.

Still making the connection of breed to likelyhood of an attack happening isn't helping anyone. He's saying that it's more likley for a "fighting" dog to have been involved in the attack. Stressful triggers are different for every dog and their environment, some dogs are rock solid and will not waiver under stress, some run, some bite from fear etc.. (Fight drive is usually linked to dog fighting breeds)

Edit, maybe somethings are getting lost in translation!! mayeb he's talking about other people perceptions? in which case he may be right.

Edited March 29, 2011 by geo

[JoeK]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

I think you misunderstood Joe.

If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation.

He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him .

He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions.

Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds.

Yes, I am sorry on the English I am working for improving on my English please. Yes, the Buster situation I see very much on the provocation here and any breed on the provication deserve a chance much more than the dog acting in active aggression, like running across the road for purposefull attack in the public street on the stranger. Buster he did not do this which people (in my opininion) should be understanding of the facts here, not just saying is because Buster is Golden Retriever Dog is the reason for the chance and if he Bull Terrier or something would be euthanized with no chance in this circumstance I dont think is true.

If the Buster run out and bite 4 people on the public street, he get euthanized just like the Bull dog or the German Shepherd Dog, no problems, but what I saying is some of the breeds with fighting trait can run out the yard and bite people if they done this the chance of living is less of course than the situation in the Buster case.

Joe

[JoeK]

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait.

People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason.

Joe

Joe,

If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive.

This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

I think you misunderstood Joe.

If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation.

He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him .

He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions.

Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds.

Still making the connection of breed to likelyhood of an attack happening isn't helping anyone. He's saying that it's more likley for a "fighting" dog to have been involved in the attack. Stressful triggers are different for every dog and their environment, some dogs are rock solid and will not waiver under stress, some run, some bite from fear etc.. (Fight drive is usually linked to dog fighting breeds)

Edit, maybe somethings are getting lost in translation!! mayeb he's talking about other people perceptions? in which case he may be right.

No, I am not talking of the dog fighting breeds, I am talking of breeds that have a fighting trait and the Golden Retriever Dog doesnt have the fighting trait to switch into active aggression. The Buster switch into defense drive it looks from the story, not active aggression which is a difference. Defense drive is worse in the trait than active aggression where in active aggression the dog is not reactive on fear response, hes reacting on dominance and confidence. Active aggression is trainable much easy to rehabilitation for being good dog than dog acting in fear, very much difficulty to train and control the fear aggression dog.

What I say is that is more likely for breeds with fighting trait to act in active aggression than breeds that don't have fighting trait and the breeds without fighting trait when attacking is usually from defense drive from fear. Buster biting the next door neighbor I would say is fear response because he grab Buster around the throat so he think the neighbour try to kill him and the Buster defend himself is natural reaction for the dog.

Joe

[Greytmate]

Question: If Busta was your dog and this had happened at your place, would you leave Busta alone at the house to be stared at by journos and passers-by, and then to be picked up by complete strangers from the council? Or would you stay back till you could make sure that Busta was ok and call a friend/family member to be at the house before you left with the ambulance (they need not necessarily be with Busta if there was a danger that he could bite again)?

That's one thing that kept nagging at me ever since I saw the news. Why wasn't anyone trying to calm the dog? Why were journos allowed to photograph him while he obviously looked extremely hassled?

Or is it unfair to expect the owners to care about the dog's welfare in this situation?

The photos and footage I saw of the dog could have easily been taken from the street with a zoom lens, there really was nothing to suggest that journalists or photographers went anywhere near the dog or even on to the property.

You would expect the dog to be agitated by the sight and sound of ambulances and others turning up. I don't know why the owners didn't try to calm the dog, but I think it might be more revealing if the people and the circumstances around the incident were investigated rather than the dog.

[LizT]

Question: If Busta was your dog and this had happened at your place, would you leave Busta alone at the house to be stared at by journos and passers-by, and then to be picked up by complete strangers from the council? Or would you stay back till you could make sure that Busta was ok and call a friend/family member to be at the house before you left with the ambulance (they need not necessarily be with Busta if there was a danger that he could bite again)?

That's one thing that kept nagging at me ever since I saw the news. Why wasn't anyone trying to calm the dog? Why were journos allowed to photograph him while he obviously looked extremely hassled?

Or is it unfair to expect the owners to care about the dog's welfare in this situation?

I think the main reasons for this was that the entire household and neighbour were at the hospital being tended for their wounds and most probably suffering from shock. I don't think Buster would have been formost in their thoughts at this point either. It is most likely the Press were quite a way away from the home itself, probably over the road using a zoom lenses.

[asal]

I wonder if there was resource guarding involved.

exactly. my neighbour phoned me and asked me to put a goats head her golden had brought home into the bin for her. her excuse it grossed her out so much she couldnt touch it.

the second he realised i had it he came running in full attack mode. n he wasnt bluffing it was terrifying to have such a huge dog come at you teeth barred and going for your face. i was lucky the hose and tap was beside me and turned it on full bore and drowned him down. till he backed off and i escaped into the house and stayed till he simmerd down. (He had been around the side of the house when i found the head and I was just dropping the head into the bottom of the bin when he realised i had it and went for me and no time to try and fish it out and throw it to distract him)

ONLY THEN did i learn he had attacked her numerous times if she went near his food after she had put it in the bowl. not impressed with either her or her darned dog

should add. he eventually died of old age and never attacked again. he was never again had anyone take any food he had or go near him when he was eating and he was fine. they moved to the suburbs from the country and had a fully enclosed yard so he no longer had opportunity for forage for himself.

Edited March 29, 2011 by asal

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Latest information on Busta HERE