RottnBullies Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here I must be missing something. Pretty much everyone agrees that breed shouldn't matter, and that pitbulls should get the same assessment that Goldens do. Why wouldn't you agree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The dog's breed should never come into the equation however, when decisions are made whether its safer to put the dog down or not. That decision should be made purely on why the attack occured in the first place. I agree with this wholeheartedly and hope that one day this will happen. My frustration in this whole event was the different way it was treated by the media which I believe was due only to the dog's breed. In fairness to the media I think they are as shocked and surprised as your average Joe Citizen that a Goldie attacked it's family. Sure it's a dog and ANY dog is capable of attacking for various different reasons....but you have to admit, I think most people (experienced dog handlers/owners included) must have done a double take when they heard a Goldie turned on it's family? I think the media is just expanding on everyones surprise...it's not your "standard dog" attack story. Despite the fact that many "unlikely" breeds can and do in fact go off the rails. It doesn't always make the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) I hesitate to post this, because I know that for many, the points will be hard to see:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...ang-attack.html What are the points? That a GR is capable of attack/defending its owner? And I agree with LizT, there is a lot of surprise in the general community at a GR attacking its family. I was out and about with my Goldie all weekend and had several people stop and talk to me about it. I just commented that all dogs are capable of biting. Edited March 28, 2011 by dee lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here I must be missing something. Pretty much everyone agrees that breed shouldn't matter, and that pitbulls should get the same assessment that Goldens do. Why wouldn't you agree with that? I think it matters in sofar as in "If you have a breed that is programmed to attack ie. strong fighting instincts you are forwarned that an attack has a higher likelihood of occurring than a more placid breed would, so you have odds stacked in your favour or against depending on certain breeds and hopefully you have chosen a breed that is within the confines of your ability and situation as a family and as a dog trainer/handler. In that respect breed does well and truly come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here I must be missing something. Pretty much everyone agrees that breed shouldn't matter, and that pitbulls should get the same assessment that Goldens do. Why wouldn't you agree with that? I think it matters in sofar as in "If you have a breed that is programmed to attack ie. strong fighting instincts you are forwarned that an attack has a higher likelihood of occurring than a more placid breed would, so you have odds stacked in your favour or against depending on certain breeds and hopefully you have chosen a breed that is within the confines of your ability and situation as a family and as a dog trainer/handler. In that respect breed does well and truly come into it. Sure, I think the argument was concerning events after the fact though. Media portrayal etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I do agree with that, I think you're misenterpeting my posts, I agree that an assesment should be done but I feel It's not being extended to other cases Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here I must be missing something. Pretty much everyone agrees that breed shouldn't matter, and that pitbulls should get the same assessment that Goldens do. Why wouldn't you agree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I hesitate to post this, because I know that for many, the points will be hard to see:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...ang-attack.html What are the points? That a GR is capable of attack/defending its owner? Well, yes that is a point, a couple more to ponder: 1. this dog responded to stimuli which threatened his existence by using aggression 2. this dog is now many more times likely to attack another human being if threatened because it worked, and because he is more sensitive to those stimuli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) No it doesn't each dog needs to be treated as an Individual, not assessed as an entire breed That's just breed discriminating and what BSL Is all about Yes It was brought up, but also Included that breed shouldn't mattter, I don't agree as I feel it does matter by what's happening here I must be missing something. Pretty much everyone agrees that breed shouldn't matter, and that pitbulls should get the same assessment that Goldens do. Why wouldn't you agree with that? I think it matters in sofar as in "If you have a breed that is programmed to attack ie. strong fighting instincts you are forwarned that an attack has a higher likelihood of occurring than a more placid breed would, so you have odds stacked in your favour or against depending on certain breeds and hopefully you have chosen a breed that is within the confines of your ability and situation as a family and as a dog trainer/handler. In that respect breed does well and truly come into it. ETA: More Edited March 28, 2011 by RottnBullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 No it doesn't each dog needs to be treated as an Individual, not assessed as an entire breed You're both right. You don't deny a dog fair assessment because it is of a particular breed, that ignores individual differences and perhaps more importantly, circumstances. On the other hand you don't pretend that a population (in this case, a breed) doesn't have a "typical" phenotype, thus ignoring the mean for the population, e.g we don't use GSDs as gun-dogs, but no doubt there are some GSDs who would make reasonable gundogs and some labs who would make terrible gundogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin-Genie Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 No it doesn't each dog needs to be treated as an Individual, not assessed as an entire breed :D You're both right. You don't deny a dog fair assessment because it is of a particular breed, that ignores individual differences and perhaps more importantly, circumstances. On the other hand you don't pretend that a population (in this case, a breed) doesn't have a "typical" phenotype, thus ignoring the mean for the population, e.g we don't use GSDs as gun-dogs, but no doubt there are some GSDs who would make reasonable gundogs and some labs who would make terrible gundogs. Very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 No it doesn't each dog needs to be treated as an Individual, not assessed as an entire breed You're both right. You don't deny a dog fair assessment because it is of a particular breed, that ignores individual differences and perhaps more importantly, circumstances. On the other hand you don't pretend that a population (in this case, a breed) doesn't have a "typical" phenotype, thus ignoring the mean for the population, e.g we don't use GSDs as gun-dogs, but no doubt there are some GSDs who would make reasonable gundogs and some labs who would make terrible gundogs. I'm not pretending to deny every breed has certain characteristics, suitable for each of their own purposes, but you left out the other bit to my quote. I don't wish to take this further OT than It already Is, I believe In a fair go for all dogs, unfortunately I don't think It's going to happen especially while BSL Is In existence here to dictate which ones will get the fair go and which won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhou Xuanyao Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Thanks K9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Thanks Steve (K9Pro) - that's what I've been saying since my first post in this thread - we don't know why the GR attacked, and there is something off about the people that live with it. I think that one reason (apart from the violence between humans in the house) that this dog could get a second chance, is not because it is a GR, but because it showed no aggression towards the camera crew that filmed it in the back yard (and there's no way my grovel dog would do that, she'd be all bark and growl, ferocious), and the dog was able to be removed without showing any aggression to the council staff. I'm not sure some other dogs that had just been in a fight like that, would be able to be removed without being first netted and sedated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Thanks Steve (K9Pro) - that's what I've been saying since my first post in this thread - we don't know why the GR attacked, and there is something off about the people that live with it.I think that one reason (apart from the violence between humans in the house) that this dog could get a second chance, is not because it is a GR, but because it showed no aggression towards the camera crew that filmed it in the back yard (and there's no way my grovel dog would do that, she'd be all bark and growl, ferocious), and the dog was able to be removed without showing any aggression to the council staff. I'm not sure some other dogs that had just been in a fight like that, would be able to be removed without being first netted and sedated. You've only got to read Karen Delise's books to realise there is usually something "off" when a dog attacks regardless of breed. It's always easier to blame the dog than the living circumstances... after all a dog can't say I have been starved, beaten, overbred, lack veterinary care, live in an environment where there is often domestic violence, been tied up 24/7 etc. Doesn't get the chance... Great that Steve has stepped up, hope he gets a chance and this then starts a precedent for all breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Any news on Buster? I wrote my email this morning (to Canterbury Council) as the Council were planning on killing him today (even though the owners don't want this to happen). I know many others have written, requesting a stay of execution, giving time for fair assessment. I don't know what the upshot of today was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Erny as far as I can tell from his page update he Is safe so looks like maybe something Is being worked out for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Thanks RottnBullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait. People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) From what I can gather from the face book page, there is more to this story that is yet to be revealed and that the family want the boys to heal before they give out more information (I don't know why). I also understand the media have portrayed the story incorrectly (should I be surprised?) and that certainly the mother was not bitten. I also read that Busta has received a few visitors (family friends, it seems) and that he is ok and handling things well. Edited March 28, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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