Barkly - Time For A Program

[Luke W]

After some recent issues during trialling - essentially he's shutting down - I've started to take a closer, unblinkered look at my dog. With the help of "Control Unleashed - by Leslie McDevitt" I'm started to recognise the signs that Barkly just can't chill and that he's generally a pretty stressed dog. At home it's very obvious. He's desperate for work to do ALL the time. He barks too much, he's too hyper and finds it difficult to control his impulses. Clicker training and simple obedience work is accompanied by much Barking and hyperactivity.

I've created a monster. All this time trying to rev him up and build drive has been counter-productive I think.

So...I've started working through the Control Unleashed program and after only a couple of days - I've started noticing improvements in him around home.

Simply by slowing down my movements, talking to him less and more quietly he's now able to do short sessions of clicking training, without barking incessantly.

I'm going to take a break from trialling for a little while and work on quiet, calm focus.

I remember started to read Control Unleashed back when Barkly was about 12 months old. I stopped reading it because I thought "not applicable to Barkly". Well, now is is applicable to him

If you've got a dog that seems highly strung, stressed or a dog that shuts down, I'd highly recommend at least having a read of Control Unleashed.

Anyway - it'll be interesting to see how he progresses over the next couple of months.

[Vickie]

Best of luck Luke, I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting.

Will you still train him in agility while you're working through the program?

Not sure how to say this, so I'll just say it ... Are you working on a program for yourself as well? You may change Barkly but it is likely that unless you personally make some changes with regards to expectations, attitude etc that his issues may recur.

[kelpiechick]

Control Unleashed is a terrific program that I think gets discounted by a lot of people because it has the stigma of being something that wild out of control dogs or stressed shut down dogs do - and there's a ton of stuff that is really good for all sorts of dogs in there.

I am happy to share everything that I have done/am doing with Cruz with you, since you also have first hand experience of Cruz. (If only he would stop getting injured, which I also believe is part of the 'can't relax' thing.)

PM me if you want as it's way too much to post here.

[megan_]

I love that book - I use some elements of it to deal with my fearful girl who would shut down (in real life, not agility). My boy - who used to be such a good little worker - has started to fool around at agility training and set his own course, so I might need to get my copy out again too. Click to Calm is another good book to read. It is aimed at aggressive dogs but the principles apply to any dog that isn't in a calm state.

Uta Bindel worked with a very vocal and hyper dalmation at her seminar on the weekend and got him into a calm state of mind very quickly. She did some things that seemed counter-intuitive to me but they worked. She fed him little bits very frequently to alter his state of mind and the second he was calm she worked him for a very short period and tried to finish the exercise before he barked. If he barked, she'd use a NRM and walk away - all fun ended.

[Luke W]

Best of luck Luke, I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting.

Will you still train him in agility while you're working through the program?

Not sure how to say this, so I'll just say it ... Are you working on a program for yourself as well? You may change Barkly but it is likely that unless you personally make some changes with regards to expectations, attitude etc that his issues may recur.

I think for the next few weeks, I'll continue to work mostly on calming him down and helping him to maintain a quiet focus. Back to basics with training. I probably won't do much actual agility training until I've finished the book!

At this early stage, I'm working on getting him calmer and less stressed. Stopping him goinng insane at dinner time for example

And yes - I'm working on retraining myself :D Cos I need it the most

[Tassie]

Good on you Luke. Glad you're seeing payback already, too. (I like both CU and Click to Calm very much). I've also been workng a bit more on self-control with Kirra in particular - never too late to teach new 'tricks'.

Kelpiechick - i

If only he would stop getting injured, which I also believe is part of the 'can't relax' thing

Interesting food for thought.

[kelpiechick]

Kelpiechick - i

If only he would stop getting injured, which I also believe is part of the 'can't relax' thing

Interesting food for thought.

This is my younger kelpie who is not as calm as my older one by any means - at home he just wants to run and is always 'rearing to go' (doesn't always transfer to agility though ) and it just seems to me as if he is constantly hyped up with twitching muscles to match. Seems to be prone to muscle soreness and soft tissue type injuries way more than the other dogs, not to mention the amount of broken claws he gets.

Would be interesting to see if there is actually any correlation between temperament and injuries. (sorry OP for going OT)

[Erny]

If, in building drive, you've been providing drive satisfaction AND have taught an on and off switch, this should not have been what has "created a monster". I use drive work to help rehabilitate and balance a mind that appears as a bit helter skelter. Once the dog understands the game rules, it is possible to almost see their minds centre.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Erny

[Luke W]

Erny - part of the problem is no off switch

[Staranais]

Are you reinforcing calm behaviour inside the house, and punishing the crazy stuff?

I keep a jar of dog biscuits beside the computer that I use to reinforce calm behaviour. If she's too crazy while I'm working, out she goes into the yard or the crate.

It does work. You can have drive when working or on cue, and calm at home (well, most of the time!) if you reinforce what you want. And exercise the dog sufficiently, but I'm presuming you're already doing that?

[Luke W]

Are you reinforcing calm behaviour inside the house, and punishing the crazy stuff?

I keep a jar of dog biscuits beside the computer that I use to reinforce calm behaviour. If she's too crazy while I'm working, out she goes into the yard or the crate.

It does work. You can have drive when working or on cue, and calm at home (well, most of the time!) if you reinforce what you want. And exercise the dog sufficiently, but I'm presuming you're already doing that?

I've really just started rewarding the calm stuff around the house.

He gets 30-40 minutes 'off lead running around free' most days in addition to agility training (2-3 club sessions a week, plus small daily amounts at home). Honestly, it's probably not enough off-lead relaxing stuff.

[megan_]

Does he get walks on leash? They can be great for tiring out.

Maybe up the exercise a bit too - My boy isn't a working breed like a cocker spaniel and I think he'd go nuts if he only had 30-40 mins free off leash play every day.

[fbaudry]

Awww little Barkly... who would have known?

Control Unleashed is a great program, and I agree with Megan, click to calm is full of helpful tips, especially if Barkly is "reactive" to certain stimuli.

Have you had a look at Karen Overall's protocol for relaxation (hope the link below works)?

http://dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html

Best of luck Luke!

[Luke W]

Thanks for the suggestions all - I've got a lot of reading to do!

[Erny]

What Staranais said. I can't see simply avoiding the motivational stuff is going to help matters so much as potentially causing more frustration for the want of mental stimulation.

Mental stimulation will tire a dog out faster than anything else (but physical exercise is necessary as well). If I've had a day and a half which has prevented me from going out with my boy, and if he's a bit toey, I will do some work at home such as hide and seek with his toys and getting him to seek and find according to which one I've asked for. He'd do this for quite some time, but if I do at least 10 or 15 minutes of it in total, it's usually enough to have him accept settling down. Of course he doesn't get this sort of activity as a reward for being toey ..... I just take his toeyness into account and plan for the activity before we settle down.

If you've worked him up using drive, then it is not too late to introduce your on and off switches. Use a word or set of words to trigger the on switch (eg "Ready?" or "Ready to work?") and use a word to trigger the off switch (eg "Finish"). After the word "finish" let your own body language clearly mimic what you want him to be like (eg relaxed, calm). Calmly give him a food treat. Go inside and expect him to settle.

Consistency is the key - take control to show Barkly what you want and insist on these new guidelines you are setting. This 'control' comes in the form of what Staranais has suggested, a lead on your dog, crate training. And yes, be aware of how Barkly might be perceiving matters. Is it his hyperactivity that gets him attention, or is it his quiet behaviour?

Edited March 23, 2011 by Erny

[Luke W]

Thanks Erny.

At the moment - it's early days. I'm starting to introduce his 'off switch' training - early days simply involves rewarding relaxed behavior. Eventually, I hope to have an super strong 'off switch' that will get him to lie down and relax.

I won't be totally avoiding the motivational stuff - I'm still playing with him and I'll do some really light agility or obedience stuff.

BTW - I don't want to make him seem worse than he is - I've seen many dogs with bigger problems than his. I've got high expectations (yes, part of the problem!).

A few weekends ago, he got 4 passes in an agility trial (plus a couple of clear masters runs where he didn't make time) - he's not a total disaster. He's got JDX and ADX despite his trial issues.

At the moment, he's completely chilled on his mat in the office. Mark, reward. ;)

[Cosmolo]

Just wanted to say good luck- sounds like you are on the right track. And congrats on those agility results!

Actually, curiousity sparked- what exactly do you mean by him shutting down at trials etc?

[Luke W]

Just wanted to say good luck- sounds like you are on the right track. And congrats on those agility results!

Actually, curiousity sparked- what exactly do you mean by him shutting down at trials etc?

It's the little things that seem to add up... ;)

Getting distracted during the table, then ambling off after being released, knocking the next bar.

Stopping and getting distracted during weaves.

Slowness and a seeming lack of drive.

Stopping and pooing

Lack of excitement at the start line.

He's much better at training (as my mind races, I think to myself - sometimes he's the opposite during training - too frantic, too eager) he doesn't have the same problems he does trials. I know I need to think about how I behave during trials. I guess there's a few issues here...his trialling issues and his general behavioral issues.

I'm learning he's got certain triggers that tend to get him over-excited at home. Clicker training is one. A knock on the dooor is another one. I'm tackling these over-excitement issues by starting to reward relaxed behavior at home. It's only the beginning and a part of the CU program. I've managed to start using the clicker in a calmer more relaxed way. I've had to really calm myself down!

I've got no doubt I need to tackle certain aspects of trialling - I haven't thought that far ahead - but the CU book describes many of our issues and I think it'll help both training, trialling and his home behavior.

added: I rambled a bit there didn't I.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Luke W

[Erny]

added: I rambled a bit there didn't I. ;)

Lol. It was a good ramble though, LukeW. I enjoy your enthusiasm and also that you are doing so well, regardless of how you tell it .

Edited March 23, 2011 by Erny

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

As someone who sees you and Barkers (Barking Mad? teehee) quite often, I thought I'd offer my 2c. Hope this is OK.

I've not been to agility that much with you, but you get very edgy and nervous when you're talking about trials and Barkly would definitely be picking up on that. I remember how upset you were the first time he pooped on a course,and now you almost seem to be expecting it. When you were going to Warnambool you said something in passing about not expecting much... therefore setting yourself up to fail.

Remember when I said that I only wanted to agility for fun, and you said that I'd get over it and start wanting to win? I think THAT in essence is your problem with Barkly at trials. At training, you guys ARE having fun and mucking around, your attitude was SO different at Altona. But at trials you put your serious face on, and I think Barkly might be feeling the pressure?

When I was with his groomer last week, he threw a massive temper tantrum when he realised he wasn't going to get his own way, and continued throwing them throughout most of the groom. At the very end he started to calm down, and then as soon as he got off the table he went CRAZY, jumping all over me, crying, desperately looking for you. He is very, very attached to you, and I am definitely NOT an expert, but maybe this is part of the problem, that he relies on you far too much and stresses when he is not near you? Are you still trying to leave him in the yard when you go out? He does spend a hell of a lot of time around you (far more than most dogs would considering you work from home) so perhaps this is part of the issue, I don't know. You know how he reacts when you get home after any period of absence.

That being said, you know I LOVE Barkly (and you xx) and I really hope that things work out. If you need me for anything including help with training please let me know. I'd be more than happy to help. Barkly has a heart of gold and I know with you as his owner, he will definitely turn out to be the dog that you want him to be.

(PS I think you're doing a marvelous thing with him and I wish even 1/10 of the owners that I met were as devoted as you are.)