I Am Never Walking My Dogs In This Neighbourhood Again.

[spyda62]

Jimmay...What an awful situation to find yourself in while walking your dogs.

In your situation, I would have done exactly the same as you. There would really be no point hanging around and potentially having your dogs involved and making it even worse than it already was.

I can only hope the Staffies were reported and the owner of them gets her butt seriously kicked!

[Diva]

In NSW, it is now illegal not to have them restrained thankfully, although I would say that compliance of this law seems very low.

Can you provide the reference Anne? I heard this discussed on the radio the other day - and the police spokeman was saying that it is illegal to have them unrestrained on the back of utes, for them to interfer with a driver, or to travel on a driver's lap.

But he was clear that it was not illegal to have them unrestrained in a car unless they were interfering with the driver.

Not saying you're wrong, but I would like to get to the bottom of the legal position as I've heard it said a lot that they legally need to be restrained, and no police or other authority I have asked has ever agreed. I've checked the national road rules and couldn't find it in there - only the bit about interfering.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Diva

[Rainy]

Diva, Im not sure where to find the laws about this but i do know they are in place, i know of 2 people that have been booked for this already apparently its the same points and fine as haveing a passanger with no seat belt.

OP you did the right thing i would have done exactly the same. I hope you are all ok and the incedent was reported.

[Jimmay]

Will be reporting it, does anyone know who exactly I should be getting in contact with? Would it be the city council?

[Diva]

Diva, Im not sure where to find the laws about this but i do know they are in place, i know of 2 people that have been booked for this already apparently its the same points and fine as haveing a passanger with no seat belt.

OP you did the right thing i would have done exactly the same. I hope you are all ok and the incedent was reported.

As I understand it, it is the interfering with the driver part of the law the police are relying on. I don't think the laws for restraint are in place as far as I can tell. Would love to find the relevant statute.

[melzawelza]

Will be reporting it, does anyone know who exactly I should be getting in contact with? Would it be the city council?

Definitely your local council. You may find the lady has already

Reported it but it's great if you ring because the council can take your witness testimony.

Horrible situation. And for the record I would have done the same as you.

[Diva]

This what another DoLer posted about unrestrained dogs in cars last week, hope they don't mind me using the info but they seemed to know their stuff:

NSW

NSW Legislation Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979 No 200

7 Carriage and conveyance of animals

(2A) Without limiting subsection (1), a person must not carry or convey a dog (other than a dog being used to work livestock), on the open back of a moving vehicle on a public street unless the dog is restrained or enclosed in such a way as to prevent the dog falling from the vehicle.

Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 6 months, or both.

Road Rules 2008

297 Driver to have proper control of a vehicle etc

(1A) A driver must not drive a vehicle if a person or an animal is in the driver’s lap.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

There is no specific reference in the legislation covering the restraint of dogs inside the vehicle but the police can use Rule 297 if they feel that the dog is distracting the driver (which means that the driver does not have proper control of the vehicle).

Edited March 20, 2011 by Diva

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Yep, next time I'm in trouble, I'm going to yell for Chewy to come save me.

Oh, and for the record Chewy, seeing as you asked such a totally relevant and meaningful question in this thread, the job hunting is over. Or didn't you see that thread yet?

Jimmay - yes, please contact your local council and ask for Animal Control. They will take down the details and investigate if they believe it's warranted. IMO it's always warranted when someone lets their dogs out of their control, but council may see things differently depending on the severity of the attack/incident.

No matter what - Jimmay did the right thing. I'll stand by to support anyone who's witnessed something that frightening because it's not something you expect when minding your own business in a public place. I've seen a few nasty dog attacks in my time and I can tell you that it's hard to get involved when you don't know what the dogs are capable of and you don't know whether they may turn on you.

[Diva]

...and info for dogs and vehicles in Queensland, which only seems to refer to dogs on vehicles, eg utes, not in them. But I assume Queesnland has the same adherence to the national road rules, eg the 'control of vehicle' clause.

'Queensland

Having an unrestrained dog on a moving vehicle could breach both the Transport Operations (Road Use Management -- Road Rules) Regulation 1999 and the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001.

The Transport Operations Regulation, administered by the Department of Transport, states it is an offence to have an unsecured load on the back of a vehicle and that applies to dogs, said Dr Rick Symons, Manager of the Animal Welfare Unit within the Qld Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries.

The Animal Care and Protection Act does not specifically mention dogs restrained on vehicles, but it places a duty of care on owners of animals to ensure the welfare needs of animals are met.

"It is an offence under the Act for a person in charge of an animal to breach this duty of care by transporting the animal in a way that is inappropriate for the animal's welfare," he said.

A breach of duty of care can result in a fine of $22,500 (and up to five times this amount for a corporation) or one year's imprisonment.'

Sorry to do as two posts, having a few editing issues.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Diva

[dee lee]

There have been many threads about the legalities of restraining dogs in nsw.

It is not illegal for a dog to be unrestrained. But as has been quoted, the dog must not interfere with the driver.

Jimmay, I think you did the right thing by removing your dogs from the situation & then returning to assist.

[~Anne~]

In NSW, it is now illegal not to have them restrained thankfully, although I would say that compliance of this law seems very low.

Can you provide the reference Anne? I heard this discussed on the radio the other day - and the police spokeman was saying that it is illegal to have them unrestrained on the back of utes, for them to interfer with a driver, or to travel on a driver's lap.

But he was clear that it was not illegal to have them unrestrained in a car unless they were interfering with the driver.

Not saying you're wrong, but I would like to get to the bottom of the legal position as I've heard it said a lot that they legally need to be restrained, and no police or other authority I have asked has ever agreed. I've checked the national road rules and couldn't find it in there - only the bit about interfering.

Yes, it seems you are right. There is no direct reference to unrestrained dogs unless they are on the driver's lap or interfering with the driver.

I think it is illegal to have them unrestrained on the back of utes though, just not in the back of a car.

It is reports such as this that seems to have lead to the confusion;

http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-get-...91024-he0j.html

[tommygirl]

To be honest I was surprised the dog didn't have any noticeable injuries either, but I wouldn't rule out internal bruising. From what I saw the staffy had the dog pinned to the ground by the throat and was clamping down hard and attempting to shake it. When the second staffy showed up and it clicked that my dogs were in danger too I was more focussed on getting out of there so i'm not sure what happened after that but there was a lot of screaming and commotion going on.

A few years ago I was out walking my silky and a ridgeback came running over picked him up, shook him from side to side and dropped him and walked off. My dog didnt have a mark on him- but died in my arms on way to vet. The other dog broke his ribs and they punctured his internal organs and with in about 15 minutes he was gone.

So just because there is not a mark, doesnt mean there isnt damage.

I think you made the best of a horrific situation Jimmay, and to be honest after having a dog attacked I would do the same thing. Why make a situation worse by walking two dogs over to a couple of dogs which are obviously dog aggressive and attacking another? I dont see how that could be a logical decision to make.

Am glad to hear the man and baby were ok, I just hope the little dog was ok later on.

[~Anne~]

To be honest I was surprised the dog didn't have any noticeable injuries either, but I wouldn't rule out internal bruising. From what I saw the staffy had the dog pinned to the ground by the throat and was clamping down hard and attempting to shake it. When the second staffy showed up and it clicked that my dogs were in danger too I was more focussed on getting out of there so i'm not sure what happened after that but there was a lot of screaming and commotion going on.

A few years ago I was out walking my silky and a ridgeback came running over picked him up, shook him from side to side and dropped him and walked off. My dog didnt have a mark on him- but died in my arms on way to vet. The other dog broke his ribs and they punctured his internal organs and with in about 15 minutes he was gone.

So just because there is not a mark, doesnt mean there isnt damage.

I think you made the best of a horrific situation Jimmay, and to be honest after having a dog attacked I would do the same thing. Why make a situation worse by walking two dogs over to a couple of dogs which are obviously dog aggressive and attacking another? I dont see how that could be a logical decision to make.

Am glad to hear the man and baby were ok, I just hope the little dog was ok later on.

Sadly, I also carry a simialr memory.

A beloved childhood Pug named Roscoe was attacked by the Labrador next door. My family were not able to afford a Vet and he had little external injuries. We thought he was just a bit shaken up. He died two days later after lying sick for two days. I believe though it was more the boot of the neighbour that killed him though...but I was only alittle girl and I could be wrong.

[dee lee]

To be honest I was surprised the dog didn't have any noticeable injuries either, but I wouldn't rule out internal bruising. From what I saw the staffy had the dog pinned to the ground by the throat and was clamping down hard and attempting to shake it. When the second staffy showed up and it clicked that my dogs were in danger too I was more focussed on getting out of there so i'm not sure what happened after that but there was a lot of screaming and commotion going on.

A few years ago I was out walking my silky and a ridgeback came running over picked him up, shook him from side to side and dropped him and walked off. My dog didnt have a mark on him- but died in my arms on way to vet. The other dog broke his ribs and they punctured his internal organs and with in about 15 minutes he was gone.

So just because there is not a mark, doesnt mean there isnt damage.

I think you made the best of a horrific situation Jimmay, and to be honest after having a dog attacked I would do the same thing. Why make a situation worse by walking two dogs over to a couple of dogs which are obviously dog aggressive and attacking another? I dont see how that could be a logical decision to make.

Am glad to hear the man and baby were ok, I just hope the little dog was ok later on.

Sadly, I also carry a simialr memory.

A beloved childhood Pug named Roscoe was attacked by the Labrador next door. My family were not able to afford a Vet and he had little external injuries. We thought he was just a bit shaken up. He died two days later after lying sick for two days. I believe though it was more the boot of the neighbour that killed him though...but I was only alittle girl and I could be wrong.

Me too.

My keeshond was attacked by an offlead RR. We took her to the vet for some puncture marks on her neck, 2 days later she died.

[jackie_a1]

I agree with Night I think we all have been targeted and attacked on this forum on some thread. I've actually stopped posting a few times because certain members are rude and very opinionated so I think everyone needs to relax.

Now in saying that everyone back off Chewy. I can see what she (or he sorry :p) is saying. I would have done similar to Chewy. IF there was another adult with me I would have told them to take my dogs and I would have proceeded to help the older man. My culture has taught me a high respect for elders, and human life. IF I had have been alone I would have just chained my dogs up at the nearest pole and ran over (I've had to do this before) and if that staffie went my dogs unfortunately it would be something I would deal with if it meant I could have saved two people. To me. REGARDLESS. Human life is OVER animal life. It's why they tell you in an emergency that DO NOT GO BACK INTO THE BUILDING TO SAVE ANIMALS. Because animal life regardless if you agree or not is not equal to human life.

Now I'm not criticising the O.P's actions at all that was his or her (sorry again) choice to react and it may have been a different reaction to what others would do me as well but it does not mean it was wrong it just means he or she saw their dogs as first priority and that's ok but it's not how some others would have reacted I think is what Chewy is trying to say.

I hate humans as a race (it's why I study, work and live with animals haha) but nothing for me is more important then preservation of a human.

[Greytmate]

Humans were not in danger from the dogs, the dogs were dog aggressive, not human aggressive.

Once the baby and the old man were lying on the ground, what is the urgency? It isn't as if they can fall any further than that.

If you have dogs with you, and there is a dog fight occurring, it is not a good idea to go off and leave your dog unattended. I would remove my dogs as soon as possible, Exactly like the OP did.

I know somebody that rushed in to help in a similar incident (a human was caught up in the fight and hurt), their own dog joined in, and then was declared dangerous.

I would never tie up my dog either. If it managed to get loose, it would be in as much danger as the maltese and as much trouble as the staffords.

Your legal responsibility is to control your dog. Not to help people who have lost balance and fallen over.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Greytmate

[~Shepherd~]

Humans were not in danger from the dogs, the dogs were dog aggressive, not human aggressive.

Once the baby and the old man were lying on the ground, what is the urgency? It isn't as if they can fall any further than that.

If you have dogs with you, and there is a dog fight occurring, it is not a good idea to go off and leave your dog unattended. I would remove my dogs as soon as possible, Exactly like the OP did.

I know somebody that rushed in to help in a similar incident (a human was caught up in the fight and hurt), their own dog joined in, and then was declared dangerous.

I would never tie up my dog either. If it managed to get loose, it would be in as much danger as the maltese and as much trouble as the staffords.

Your legal responsibility is to control your dog. Not to help people who have lost balance and fallen over.

There were 2 people, there was no suggestion the dogs should go over to the incident. A screaming baby face down on the path with possible head injuries IMO is urgent. Dogs in flight with a screaming baby on the ground is a recipe for disaster, especially if it was between the dogs fighting. Reducing the risk to all involved would be my intention. Give dogs to stronger person and remove from danger, attend injured baby face down on concrete whilst dogs are attempting to kill each other around it.

[poodlefan]

There were 2 people, there was no suggestion the dogs should go over to the incident. A screaming baby face down on the path with possible head injuries IMO is urgent. Dogs in flight with a screaming baby on the ground is a recipe for disaster, especially if it was between the dogs fighting. Reducing the risk to all involved would be my intention. Give dogs to stronger person and remove from danger, attend injured baby face down on concrete whilst dogs are attempting to kill each other around it.

Super Chewy to the rescue.

You want the weaker person to wade into the middle of a dog fight and save the baby. :p

Who's rescuing the old man - or doesn't he rate on your priorities?

[Greytmate]

There were 2 people, there was no suggestion the dogs should go over to the incident. A screaming baby face down on the path with possible head injuries IMO is urgent. Dogs in flight with a screaming baby on the ground is a recipe for disaster, especially if it was between the dogs fighting. Reducing the risk to all involved would be my intention. Give dogs to stronger person and remove from danger, attend injured baby face down on concrete whilst dogs are attempting to kill each other around it.

Yes, but having your own dogs there means that there is a danger to them, and that they could cause a danger. Even if held on lead. There were other people there to attend to the baby.

I wouldn't want my dogs exposed to a nearby dog fight, as dog fights upset or excite other dogs. The last thing this scene needed was two more excitable dogs barking or wanting to have a go. Reducing risk to all involved means removing your dogs from a scene like this immediately. The only thing I would suggest to others in this sort of situation is to try to walk away calmly. If you run, it may encourage them to chase. But Jimmay might not have had time to walk calmly.

[Jimmay]

There's no way in hell I would have sent my mother into that situation.

I can't believe how many times i've had to explain the fact that the baby's pram fell whilst there were good 10 or so people on the scene and I was already half way up the street.