No Wonder Ppl Go To Bybs

[Clyde]

, and as others have said, maybe they just don't have the best "email ettiquete" but are much friendlier over the phone I would recommend phoning them to discuss what you want.

A lot of breeders request emails and state on their blurbs not to phone.

[perth_girl]

Some breeders need to pull their heads out from their supposed squeeky clean behinds and take a look around. I am NOT scum that is going to neglect your precious puppy. I treat my pets like a real member of the family. You want to look down on buyers from way up on your pedestal then just remember this...

"The monkeys at the top of the tree look down to see a bunch of smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and only saw a bunch of a$$holes."

The attitude from some of the breeders on this thread has proved exactly what many have thought about breeders, and more. Blame buyers for not taking the time do do xyz, and then complaining that you dont have time to answer emails?! You shun some perfectly wonderful people without even knowing them, and for all you know you have just lost out on giving one of your pups a truely amazing home. I have received many PMs from this thread from people saying they completely agree with me. We understand that you get alot of time wasters, but it seems breeders dont understand thats not OUR fault! Its not our fault that out of the 40 emails you have, only 2 are genuine, so dont blame us straight out of the gate. Wouldnt having time wasters be part of the parcel of being a breeder? Deal with it, and dont take it out on new potential buyers.

Some of the responses on this thread have made me so annoyed, and yes, right now Im typing angrily. Would be a wonderful time to go get some fresh air and take my ACD pup for a walk...oh I forgot...I had the nerve to try communicate with an email, therefor not good enough to even be considered to have a pup. Silly me.

[Dogsfevr]

[

Most breeds don't have breed clubs & not every state has breed clubs .Breeds clubs will only hand out names of people who are members ,not every breeder joins there breed club so doing your homework is still important.

When it comes to being a breeder your dammed if you & dammed if you don't.Where often expected to have the magic hat to pull out puppies,sexes, colour & when each person wants there,s.

If you have too many litters your a puppy farm,we don't have enough litters its the breeders fault for not meeting the demand.

mackiemad

i know that you, jodie, weren't actually saying that we buyers didn't have busy lives either, but i just want to illustrate that some of us buyers may have time for a puppy but that for a breeder to expect us to go above and beyond, to make it almost a part-time job to prove we are worthy of a pup is pretty elitest IMHO.

If i sell a puppy i expect the owners to make time & yes you do have to prove your worthy & i would expect any great breeder to do this.Why would a breeder sell a pup to an unsuitable home?? & then get bagged for selling to whomever with no thought??

[Rebanne]

Some breeders need to pull their heads out from their supposed squeeky clean behinds and take a look around. I am NOT scum that is going to neglect your precious puppy. I treat my pets like a real member of the family. You want to look down on buyers from way up on your pedestal then just remember this...

"The monkeys at the top of the tree look down to see a bunch of smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and only saw a bunch of a$$holes."

The attitude from some of the breeders on this thread has proved exactly what many have thought about breeders, and more. Blame buyers for not taking the time do do xyz, and then complaining that you dont have time to answer emails?! You shun some perfectly wonderful people without even knowing them, and for all you know you have just lost out on giving one of your pups a truely amazing home. I have received many PMs from this thread from people saying they completely agree with me. We understand that you get alot of time wasters, but it seems breeders dont understand thats not OUR fault! Its not our fault that out of the 40 emails you have, only 2 are genuine, so dont blame us straight out of the gate. Wouldnt having time wasters be part of the parcel of being a breeder? Deal with it, and dont take it out on new potential buyers.

Some of the responses on this thread have made me so annoyed, and yes, right now Im typing angrily. Would be a wonderful time to go get some fresh air and take my ACD pup for a walk...oh I forgot...I had the nerve to try communicate with an email, therefor not good enough to even be considered to have a pup. Silly me.

your email was replied to with an invite to ring. You chose not to ring.

You do yourself no favours with this rant

Edited March 24, 2011 by Rebanne

[perth_girl]

your email was replied to with an invite to ring. You choose not to ring.

You do yourself no favours with this rant

Not my intention to do myself any favours. My intention to get some breeders to understand where the majority of buyers are coming from, but it seems that just wont happen.

Once again, I will not be calling this breeder, because I do not wish to give away a non-refundable deposit on a pup I have not seen, and has not even been born, so can people stop telling me to call them.

[Paptacular!]

As a new breeder I've answered every enquiry I've received.

Even one that came via SMS! Not my preferred mode of contact but they did say they would follow up with a call if I gave them an appropriate time.

[Hazz]

I have heavily "vetted" potential puppy owners after all some puppy enquirers really don't seem to know what their getting themselves into particularly with my breed, and you know what ? the ones that were suitable were appreciative of the vetting as they felt more comfortable knowing that we were particular !

Secondly yes we do have 'outside' jobs after all our dogs are our passion and hobby but we need a real job to pay the bills ! So don't be upset or impatient we will get to those emails eventually

[Rebanne]

your email was replied to with an invite to ring. You choose not to ring.

You do yourself no favours with this rant

Not my intention to do myself any favours. My intention to get some breeders to understand where the majority of buyers are coming from, but it seems that just wont happen.

Once again, I will not be calling this breeder, because I do not wish to give away a non-refundable deposit on a pup I have not seen, and has not even been born, so can people stop telling me to call them.

and it's been pointed out that that might be a way to weed out the undesirables but you will never know what might have actually happened if you had actually spoken to them.

Some breeders, who are ethical, do ask for deposit's on unborn litters. It's not uncommon.

[Rebanne]

I've always sold myself to breeders, going back over 30 years now. Always done my best to show them that I was worthy of one of their pups. Told them my plans, my aims, my dreams. I don't see why it should be different today.

[Kal]

My intention to get some breeders to understand where the majority of buyers are coming from, but it seems that just wont happen.

It may have happened.

It is one of those things though. There are people who will never question anything they believe, they are always right and that anyone who makes them question for a moment that they might be slightly wrong will have no choice but to resort to flaming, sarcasm, insults and perhaps even threats.

[Boxerheart]

Trying to find suitable homes and dealing with potential puppy purchasers is the very worst part of breeding IMO, believe me there are just as many time wasters and tyre kickers among the ranks of buyers as there are rude and uncommunicative people among the breeders.

I answer all enquiries promptly and politely, but some of the enquiries you have to deal with really try your patience and even if they pass my first assessment often they are quite unsuitable when you meet them personally.

If it were possible to accurately measure such things I think equal fault would be found on both sides.

I'm pleased to see some balance coming from a registered breeder. You're the kind of breeder I hoped to find via my way of approaching breeders. And I did.

I've got a vested interest, because a breeder who puts finding a suitable home, at the top of her priorities, is a person likely to have pride & care in what she produces & nurtures. Especially when she's quite ready to say 'No' anywhere within the screening process.

Frankly, I'm not going to waste my own time or anyone else's, until I find someone like this. 'Moving on' is a positive decision.

It's this kind of breeder, I then recommend to good people who are looking for a puppy or a dog. If I've had positive dealings with the breeder, myself, I'm then prepared to be a reference for any such person I point in their direction.

I have turned away plenty of unsuitable homes, and I certainly I felt the people who reserved puppies and then did not tell me they got somthing else were a lucky escape for my puppies. But it did not mean any less time wasted on my part, and it did mean some very good people missed out when I turned them away due to said puppies being reserved.

It wont hurt to illustrate what breeders need to go through to 1. Find the right homes for puppies, 2. Sort the genuine inquires from the not so genuine.

And it is not always a pleasant experience. SO WE ARE CAUTIOUS.

On the other hand it is possible to meet the best of people also.

I reply to all emails as a general rule, and usually ask the following questions, the answers may lead to further questions and a meeting or phone call.

Do you own your home or rent.

Do you have children, and or other pets, ages

How would you house your pet

Are you working

Have you owned this breed / a dog before

What do you plan to do with the dog?

Have you previously taken a dog to obedience training

I don't see how questions like these are unreasonable

Edited March 24, 2011 by Boxerheart

[poodlefan]

Some breeders need to pull their heads out from their supposed squeeky clean Some of the responses on this thread have made me so annoyed, and yes, right now Im typing angrily. Would be a wonderful time to go get some fresh air and take my ACD pup for a walk...oh I forgot...I had the nerve to try communicate with an email, therefor not good enough to even be considered to have a pup. Silly me.

Seriously Perth Girl, its time to build a bridge.

The right breeder and the right pup are out there.

You've had a kiss a few frogs. You'll probably kiss a few more. But the right dog will be worth it.

You're not the only person to travel this road. Those of us who persevered will tell you its worth it.

If you want breeder recommendations to speed you on your way, then go to the ACD thread and ask for them.

Neither breeders nor buyers profit from name calling, accusations of poor behaviour or generalising. You've formed some unfavourable impressions about some breeders posting here. You don't know who might be reading this and forming a similarly unfavourable view of you.

ACDs I gather are not a breed for the faint hearted or easily deterred. Perhaps you might consider the search for the right breeder part of the "suitability test" for a pup.

[shortstep]

your email was replied to with an invite to ring. You choose not to ring.

You do yourself no favours with this rant

Not my intention to do myself any favours. My intention to get some breeders to understand where the majority of buyers are coming from, but it seems that just wont happen.

Once again, I will not be calling this breeder, because I do not wish to give away a non-refundable deposit on a pup I have not seen, and has not even been born, so can people stop telling me to call them.

Well then call her up and tell her you are not ready to commit to giving a deposit until they are born, or until you can pick one out or what ever it is you want to do, then ask her if she has any pups left over after the others with reservartions have picked their pups, that you would like to see them. Many breeders, espcially if they have a good reputation, will not have any pups not already spoken for once the litter is born.

Edited March 24, 2011 by shortstep

[Kal]

Well then call her up and tell her you are not ready to commit to giving a deposit until they are born, or until you can pick one out or what ever it is you want to do, then ask her if she has any pups left over after the others with reservartions have picked their pups, that you would like to see them. Many breeders, espcially if they have a good reputation, will not have any pups not already spoken for once the litter is born.

It could also be the case that the breeder isn't good with emails. I know plenty of people who are terrible on the phone, they sound so un-interested, or abrupt, but in person they are very nice, chatty, etc. I'm sure some people can be like that with emails too. (even forum posts ). Perhaps the breeder is new to emails (not as un-common as one might think).

[RallyValley]

perth_girl.. you seem so keen to slam on this breeder and registered breeders as a whole and have publicily posted word for word thier email in a state so small in the breed this may have got back to the orginial breeder (and possibly others).

I have emailed a breeder, not heard back, rung them and had a lovely lovely phone chat!

I think you have maybe picked the wrong issue here, you make it sound like people go to BYB's because of lack of communicaton in your first post, you are now saying it was because they wanted a deposit (which is quite normal for some breeders and at the end of the day not that much money compared to the costs of raising a pup)... my issue would have been the papers but hey.. everyone has thier own priorities.

[Greytmate]

Some breeders need to pull their heads out from their supposed squeeky clean behinds and take a look around. I am NOT scum that is going to neglect your precious puppy. I treat my pets like a real member of the family. You want to look down on buyers from way up on your pedestal then just remember this...

"The monkeys at the top of the tree look down to see a bunch of smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and only saw a bunch of a$$holes."

The attitude from some of the breeders on this thread has proved exactly what many have thought about breeders, and more. Blame buyers for not taking the time do do xyz, and then complaining that you dont have time to answer emails?! You shun some perfectly wonderful people without even knowing them, and for all you know you have just lost out on giving one of your pups a truely amazing home. I have received many PMs from this thread from people saying they completely agree with me. We understand that you get alot of time wasters, but it seems breeders dont understand thats not OUR fault! Its not our fault that out of the 40 emails you have, only 2 are genuine, so dont blame us straight out of the gate. Wouldnt having time wasters be part of the parcel of being a breeder? Deal with it, and dont take it out on new potential buyers.

Some of the responses on this thread have made me so annoyed, and yes, right now Im typing angrily. Would be a wonderful time to go get some fresh air and take my ACD pup for a walk...oh I forgot...I had the nerve to try communicate with an email, therefor not good enough to even be considered to have a pup. Silly me.

Perthgirl, I came into this thread very quickly after your first post, and pointed out where the email you were sending out had some wording that might discourage a reply.

Have you tried writing a different email and sending that out?

Have you tried any other methods of approaching breeders?

Or are you just going to keep writing angry posts because your one email didn't get the response you want?

I haven't blamed breeders or buyers. But you might get a more replies if you don't ask complicated questions about criteria, and you give them few sentences about the lifestyle you can provide for a pup.

[mr.mister]

your email was replied to with an invite to ring. You choose not to ring.

You do yourself no favours with this rant

Not my intention to do myself any favours. My intention to get some breeders to understand where the majority of buyers are coming from, but it seems that just wont happen.

Once again, I will not be calling this breeder, because I do not wish to give away a non-refundable deposit on a pup I have not seen, and has not even been born, so can people stop telling me to call them.

I've been following this thread since its start.

As far as I know, nobody can automatically extract your bank details and withdraw non-refundable deposits when you call them? If you take the time to call, after having a chat you can always say no thanks, not interested - there's no way you can be forced into putting down a deposit over the phone.

I have great respect for breeders. What they do is not easy and is done for the sheer love of their breed. They want the best for the animals they bring into this world and to be honest, when I'm looking for a pup, I pull out all the stops to show that I'm worthy to own said pup. Because I know I have it in me, so why not show it?

It seems to me that this has become an issue of principle to you, which really is the wrong way to look at the situation. ACD's are not an easy breed, and it says everything to a breeder when a potential puppy buyer makes an actual effort to prove that they're suitable. If they can't be stuffed calling, that's the buyer's problem. I suppose it just comes down to how much someone actually wants the puppy. That's just the way it is.

As someone else mentioned, build a bridge. Swallow your pride and put some effort in - you'd be surprised where it gets you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

[Steve]

Asking for a deposit before the pups are born isnt a new thing or that un common.

In their defence they may be trying to manage the number of people they have had wanting to be placed on their waiting list.

Some breeders in some breeds get a huge amount of people who say they want a puppy . They take their names and spend many hours of their lives getting to know them and then when the big day comes and the breeder starts to move through the list to let them know puppies have arrived they are all gone. They have purchased one from another breeder, another breed or one from a pet shop or pound.

Personally I wouldnt consider paying a desposit or even think of asking for a deposit until the pups were at least 2 weeks old - when risk factors have lessened that there will be a pup ready for me to take home - this litter or any litter.

I had an enquiry about 2 weeks ago from someone who had paid a $1000 deposit when the pup was a week old asking me if I knew if the breeder was on the up and up,if I knew of them etc and even though they were going to the breeders home to pick the puppy up in person the breeder had as apart of the sales agreement that they pay the balance on the pup $1500 2 weeks before they arrived to pick it up.

I spent a bit of time thinking that one through too. Nothing much to say about it though if thats what the puppy buyer is aware of and agrees to when they put the deposit down. No one could answer what would happen if th ebuyer got there and decided after seeing the pup or the property, other dogs etc they changed their mind and decided not to take the pup.

Personally I think its a high risk behaviour for a breeder to take a deposit on a pup before its born and they are sure its alive, right sex warm and wriggly.If I had $5 for every time something happened which would affect that I would be doing O.K. No pregnancy, phantoms , whelping complications,rearing disasters, the in ability to write a recipe for what sex etc can and very often do disappoint a breeder but if the buyer has a deposit on would also suffer the disappointment on a higher level than theydo if these things happen without a deposit.

I also think that there may be valid reason for a breeder to take full amount on a pup if they are worried about bouncing cheques or if the pup is being transported without the buyer personally picking it up but its not something I think is without risk. Risk of something going wrong and risk of someone saying I dont want that dog now Ive seen it.Thats rare but still possible and it feels to me that its just trouble waiting to happen.

Until you ask you dont know whether the ask for a depsoit before the pup is born is some kind of smoke screen to keep enquiries down or to ensure you are serious and Id be interested to know - but I wouldnt place a deposit on a pup which wasnt born yet any more than I would pay full price on a pup 2 weeks before Im coming to the breeders property to pick it up.

Is this and other things being spoken of in this thread the reason why some people go to back yard breeders - definitely.But should the breeder behave in a manner which is only designed to keep people away from going to a back yard breeder ? No. At the end of the day - the breeder calls the shots on the sales terms and if you dont like it, you have choices - one of them is to go to a BYB.

[~Anne~]

I wouldn't pay a non-refundable deposit an anything, much less a dog.

Non-refundable has 'come in sucker' written all over it, particularly if the deposit is substantial.

[Steve]

I wouldn't pay a non-refundable deposit an anything, much less a dog.

Non-refundable has 'come in sucker' written all over it, particularly if the deposit is substantial.

Yep I would agree with that but I can see why a deposit may be non refundable if the breeder is providing something other than the pup at the time of deposit which would be saleable - such as their puppy pack or if the breeder is passing up sales because they think that one is taken. If someone pulls out at th elast minute then they have to pay extra for advertising etc to find a replacement sale.

When I was breeding Ragdoll kittens I took non refundable deposits on my pet kittens. That was because if a kitten was going home as a pet it was desexed 2 weeks before it went home.That obviously meant that I couldnt then sell it as a breeding cat if the buyer changed their mind. A pet kitten back then was around $650 and a breeding kitten up to $2000.