No Wonder Ppl Go To Bybs

[Rebanne]

your email was responded to and you were asked to phone if you wanted more info, what more do you want

[Aussienot]

Perthgirl, I understand why you are frustrated. I had the same problem in getting breeders to even respond to me at all. This was no reflection on me as an owner, but there was a barrier between me as a puppy buyer and the breeders who had puppies for sale. And I gave up. I could has easily found one from a byb, but didn't want to do that. I didn't just want any pup of that breed, I wanted a thoughtfully bred, genetically healthy, temperamentally sound and well raised puppy.

A few months later I was at a show with a friend, started talking to a breeder (of a different breed), got very excited about the pedigree of her next litter, and ended up with a much better puppy. And have made a friend of that breeder. 18 months later couldn't be happier with him.

And in January, I made contact with another breeder, have been in contact with her constantly, and my new pup arrives Wednesday.

So keep trying. It can be done. Perhaps try visiting a show or two, and see if you can strike up a conversation with some breeders. Yes, some breeders won't give you the answer you want (or any answer at all!) and they are fine with that; but many will respond and be lovely.

[OSoSwift]

It can be very frustrating but you can either give in and get a puppy from someone who doesn't care and live with that decision for many years seeing each day the issues it brought, or you can dig in with determination and find what it is you seek.

There are some things I will not compromise on and one is I have learnt my lesson I will never go to the easiest source for a puppy it will be the best one.

If you give in that easily then go to a BYB, problem is you may regret it for a much longer time than it takes to find the right breeder.

[Aphra]

Isn't there a bit of a disconnect here? On the one hard we (as in DOL in general) condemn puppy farmers and backyard breeders for a whole host of valide reasons. There are frequent threads despairing of family, friends and workmates who go the puppy shop route despite much promotion of the purebred dog option. And breeders equally frequently deplore the fact that Joe and Jane General Public don't see purebred dogs as a viable way of getting a new family member.

But here are people who actually wanted a purebreed dog and are finding it hard and the expectation is that it should be a thankless, difficult, and unfriendly process to ensure that people are sufficiently motivated to buy a purebreed puppy?

How hard would it be to shoot back a friendly email saying "thanks, here's some stuff about us and this is what I'd like to know about you"? Many people find it hard to express themselves through email, especially if they are being asked to cover some criteria which is invisible to them. Being friendly and encouraging doesn't mean that you have to spend hours writing long emails, or hand dogs over to anyone who wants them, but good customer service isn't that difficult.

I deal with lots and lots and lots of rescue applications for our dogs. Some of them just make me roll my eyes and go "FFS", but all of them get a polite reply asking them some questions or directing them to our application forms or just declining them gently. Yes, it takes time, but a number of those "FFS" emails have turned out to be from lovely, caring, responsible people who just don't write very well and had I turned them away because of that one of our animals might have missed out on a terrific home.

I don't do this because I'm an incredibly nice person, because I'm not really, but because I see that part of my role is to advocate for rescue by being as client oriented and professional as I possibly can.

And on reflection what WoofnHoof said.

I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

Exactly how Im feeling.

Well if you go back and think about all the advice given in this thread, and possible reasons why you didnt get the email response you wanted, you might feel differently.

Nobody is promising you excellent customer service. There isn't enough profit in good dog breeding for the type of service you might get buying a car or a house. But if you want a really good dog, you put your feelings about breeders aside and keep trying.

It might be worth you contacting ACD rescue (anywhere in Australia), letting them know what you are after in a dog and telling them a bit about your life and family. They may have a dog in foster care that will meet your needs for a happy healthy dog, and you won't have to deal with breeders.

The only person that will directly benefit from you getting a dog is you. Nobody is going to make a fortune out of you, or chase you for your business. So the dog you get out of this whole buying process will reflect the effort that you are willing to put in. Going to a BYB or petshop will lessen your chance of getting a good dog, it isn't a direct threat to a hobby breeder or anyone else here.

[Inevitablue]

perth girl, in the past 8 months can I ask how many breeders you have contacted by phone and not email?

Completely understand that you want to pick your puppy and meet the parents, but because pedigree ACDs are not common in WA then you will have to factor in going interstate to do that.

I mentioned before that I cant understand why you didnt just pick up the phone when the breeder said to contact them. Are people elitist because they are not ringing you??

Oh and thumbs up for ACD Rescue... thats where I got my last girl from (and the deafness was fully disclosed and she was on the private listings page)

http://www.australiancattledogrescue.com/

Edited March 21, 2011 by Jakemon

[poodlefan]

I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

Exactly how Im feeling.

Have you contacted any interstate breeders yet?

[Isabel964]

When I was looking for my Westie I used this site and I used the phone to chat to breeders. I can see that the email was off-putting because I know what you were looking for, but I think the breeder was busy and not a great communicator. I think some breeders forget what its like to be a non-breeder regular dog lover looking for a purebred.

Don't give up. When I spoke to the breeder I got my Westie from, we both got to know each other and she said she thought she had the perfect Westie for me. I went to see her and and she was right - it was the perfect Westie for me - her temperament is just perfect for me. Its worth it, don't give up. Trust me - and a blue heeler - what a great breed!

Edited March 21, 2011 by Sky

[conztruct]

I understand what you're saying and it must be very frustrating but the best advice I can offer to you is to call the breeder as they've invited you to do. Some people don't have brilliant written communication skills and the message may not have come across in the best way. Trust me, if they didn't care or weren't interested in you as a prospective owner, they wouldn't have responded to you at all or invited you to call them.

I think this is where it gets difficult - when puppies are sold it is a business transaction but a lot of breeders aren't breeding for commercial purposes. For a lot it's a hobby, something they do to improve their breed or to breed a pup to run on themselves. Most don't produce litter after litter to cater to a market so we really can't judge their sales or customer service skills - their motives are usually quite different from a sales/customer service perspective ie they aren't just selling to move stock, their primary objective is to find a suitable home for their pup. You may find after a discussion that a breeder may be brilliant at what they do but just not a strong communicator.

Any written communication needs to be taken objectively - please don't try to guess the intent or underlying meaning of written words. I can tell you from personal experience that my opinion of some breeders from their written communication diminished but when I actually called and had a chat, they were just brilliant. This will give them the opportunity to ask you questions as well as you ask them and you will know from the discussion whether this is someone you want to deal with rather than guessing.

Edited March 21, 2011 by conztruct

[spyda62]

Surely, to a degree, it is up to Ethical registered breeders to educate people as to why they have such a tough criteria for their potential puppy buyers?

Not knowing your specific experience perhaps a generalisation is not appropriate but the vast majority of people I have dealt with over the (many) years who end up in a huff and saying we're a bunch of elitist snobs HAVE been told why good breeders care about where their puppies go - it's just they don't want to hear that they're not suitable owner for the breed they have in mind (or a pet rock in some circumstances) or they aren't allowed to breed from their PET ONLY puppy or they can't have xyz colour with abc markings just because they want one.

I'd explain it this way.

If you want to buy a fridge that will keep stuff cold, by all means go along to your nearest discount retailer and buy the cheapest one they have. Set aside a similar amount because in a couple of years time you will no doubt be buying another one.

If you want to buy a fridge that will look good in your kitchen, has good technology inside and will either stand the test of time or be covered by a proper warranty, then do some research, check out your brands and choose the best brand for your purpose and price.

I do understand what you are saying...at that stage in my life all I wanted was a wellbred, papered, healthchecked puppy as a pet. Always my pets are desexed.

Seriously....I was knocked back by one breeder as my previous dog (Purebred Bernese Mountain dog) was bitten by a snake and died as a result.

I look back now and in hindsight, I should have been a bit more humble when contacting the breeders, but I believed and still do believe I am a good pet owner.

Getting a pet dog for (legitamate sincere puppy buyers) should be a good experience and not leave people walking away shaking their heads wondering what the hell that was all about.

I really believe that any of us that choose to be involved in the dog world, wether it be breeding, rescue, training and etc should be taking every opportunity we can and educating people where ever possible and helping them to be the best possible dog owners they can be.

[Boxerheart]

Do your research first. Check out their website. Write down names of dogs of theirs you like and want to ask about. Don't come straight in expecting to be invited over, Breeders properties are not petting zoos. And there are public liability risks for breeders. Your interaction would be limited.

Breeders that breed one or two litters a year will barely cover costs, often work full time , maintain a property often acerage, a kennel, exercise and train multiple dogs a day, compete and in amongst all that try and squeeze in time to cook for ourselves, our dogs and shower early enough for half hour of TV before bed.

We do not have time to pander to general emails that arrive in Spam proportions, and often seek breed and training advise that can be googled. And the common doozie is...."Tell me why a (insert Breed) is good for my family"

So rather than risk getting your email seen as spam, ring. Avoid Weekends, they may be competing at a show or trial. If they pick up, ask them if it is a good time to talk. If you get an answering machine, ring back later yourself.

You want a purebred, thats good, but cut some slack and remember we are not a business, and we do deal with a lot of time wasters and this makes us wary.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Boxerheart

[Boxerheart]

Just reading through this thread and got to ask - why do potential puppy purchasers have to 'sell themselves' to breeders?

It just seems you have to submit a resume and you might just get a dog allocated to you - huh but puppy buyers are customers and breeders are suppliers. Sure can see the breeders asking some basic questions such as about fencing, family (ie young kids, old kids, no kids), owned dogs before, etc but really if you have to apply to buy something of course they (buyers) will see an ad in the paper or online or simply buy whta they see at the pet shop. Far easier than going through an inquisition.

If I was looking for a puppy I'd only be putting a basic 'looking for puppy do you have any available in the near future' type email enquiry. Then if they did would be happy to talk to them further but certainly not going to supply an essay to sell myelf.

I agree. It seems some people believe buyers need to crawl and grovel in order to get a pup. I'd rather shop elsewhere.

Breeders put a lot of time and effort in to raising the litter and get very attached to all the babies. We want what is best for them. These are our extended family.

We have every right to check buyers..it is not different to someone wanting to foster or adopt a child..even rent a house - however in the case of dogs, once they are sold the fate of that pup is purely in the hands of the new owner.

So many physical and emotional issues can happen to a dog in it's formative months that we need to try and vet out the good from the bad potential homes. Should we need to take a dog back for whatever reason..what state of mind will it be in if it has been abused, or never left the backyard during it's socialization phase?

In addition, it is wise for a breeder to sell a puppy to someone they feel comfortable with, they are going to be a mentor for many years to come.

In saying all this..I will reply to the majority of emails but in brief ie, "Sorry I have nothing available now", unless I have put out a litter notice inviting inquiry.

[Gayle.]

In addition, it is wise for a breeder to sell a puppy to someone they feel comfortable with, they are going to be a mentor for many years to come

.

Ummm...most people just want to buy a puppy, not a lifelong relationship with it's breeder. Mentoring for show puppies, yes maybe, but mentoring for pets? Why?

[poodlefan]

In addition, it is wise for a breeder to sell a puppy to someone they feel comfortable with, they are going to be a mentor for many years to come

.

Ummm...most people just want to buy a puppy, not a lifelong relationship with it's breeder. Mentoring for show puppies, yes maybe, but mentoring for pets? Why?

To answer all those questions that puppy buyers who are new to dog ownership have.

A cursory glance at the "Puppy Problems" forum will demonstrate what the need is. This forum has been providing support to puppy buyers without a supportive breeder from the get go.

[Rebanne]

In addition, it is wise for a breeder to sell a puppy to someone they feel comfortable with, they are going to be a mentor for many years to come

.

Ummm...most people just want to buy a puppy, not a lifelong relationship with it's breeder. Mentoring for show puppies, yes maybe, but mentoring for pets? Why?

to make life easier for the dog and the owner, particularly if they have never owned the breed before. You don't have to live in each other's pockets or even speak on a regular basis. It might only ever be if there is a crisis but you want your puppy buyers to be comfortable enough with you to ring you if there is a problem. And if there is never a problem you may never speak to them again.

[Gayle.]

In addition, it is wise for a breeder to sell a puppy to someone they feel comfortable with, they are going to be a mentor for many years to come

.

Ummm...most people just want to buy a puppy, not a lifelong relationship with it's breeder. Mentoring for show puppies, yes maybe, but mentoring for pets? Why?

To answer all those questions that puppy buyers who are new to dog ownership have.

A cursory glance at the "Puppy Problems" forum will demonstrate what the need is. This forum has been providing support to puppy buyers without a supportive breeder from the get go.

And I'd say some of them have bought pups from very supportive breeders but want a wider variety of responses or ideas than from just one person. Some breeders house their dogs in kennels and the dogs never enter the house. Those breeders might not be the best place to start with questions about sleeping places for the pup, the first nights whining, or house training.

While I think it's probably nice for breeders and buyers to keep in touch for a bit of early support, I'd hardly call it mentoring.

[Scarlett Dog]

Just wanted to say thanks to PG for showing what it can be like as a potential puppy buyer. I completely understand your frustrations, i too went through the same thing. I called and emailed and was willing to answer any questions breeders had, that was assuming I got a response. I know it's a busy time with a new litter but it does get frustrating to not have any kind of response (even a 'thanks for your enquiry, we're busy with puppies but will get back to you when we can' response would still be a response!). Despite how the response was taken it was still a response which is a step in the right direction!

I know not all breeders are like this, but not all potential buys are time wasters either. All i can say is if you ask potential owners who are trying to get a pup by going through the right channels (i.e. a registered breeder rather than pet store/byb) to be patient, i would suggest the same applies for breeders. Please be patient with buyers. Not everyone knows what the breeder is looking for (including preferred contact methods) or how intense the whole process can be. many do give up and go to a byb or pet store. There are some fabulous breeders out there- i wish there were more like them.

Hang in there PG, you will find a great breeder and puppy who will make it worth it.

[Darkrai]

I have been looking for a blue heeler puppy for at least 8 months now. I have emailed Perth breeders and tried calling. I got back ONE email. This is what i sent...

I am very interested in buying a gorgeous Blue Heeler puppy, purely for pet

purposes. I have emailed before and didnt receive a reply, so I thought I

would try again.

Would you please be able to tell me a little bit about your pups and what

the criteria is, to be considered by you to give one of these pups a

forever home. I would also love to be able to come and visit your dogs if

possible.

Thank you

This is the reply I got...

We do not have any puppies at the moment, but we do run a puppy waitlist

where a $100 deposit (non refundable) is paid and people wait until we have

puppies available. Do you wish to go on the waitlist? Puppies sell for

$700 without papers. If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*

WTF! That wasnt helpful at all! Its no wonder people go to backyard breeders when real breeders either wont return calls or emails, or dont offer the information that was originally asked!

Also, that email was sent at the start of Feb and i have just checked their website and they had 2 litters a week later and the pups arent sold or on hold apparently :rolleyes:

For starters your lucky you got an email back when i first started loooking for a show dog i hit many dead ends...

They may have been busy and thats why they hadn't got back to you, technically at that time they didnt have any pups... They offered you a deposit for an up comming litter. Although sometime im suss on non refundable.

They may have had a litter not long after you sent this but what if they lost the pups from the litter?

If they have pups now maybe recontact them and hopefully hope they havent seen this thread...

[KOE]

sheesh you are a game girl,

Whereever you buy your bluey from be very careful and ensure the breed has the correct temperment.

Breeders put a lot of time and effort in to raising the litter and get very attached to all the babies. We want what is best for them. These are our extended family.

I would insert some in the front of that.

Edited March 21, 2011 by KOE

[Clyde]

Just reading through this thread and got to ask - why do potential puppy purchasers have to 'sell themselves' to breeders?

It just seems you have to submit a resume and you might just get a dog allocated to you - huh but puppy buyers are customers and breeders are suppliers. Sure can see the breeders asking some basic questions such as about fencing, family (ie young kids, old kids, no kids), owned dogs before, etc but really if you have to apply to buy something of course they (buyers) will see an ad in the paper or online or simply buy whta they see at the pet shop. Far easier than going through an inquisition.

If I was looking for a puppy I'd only be putting a basic 'looking for puppy do you have any available in the near future' type email enquiry. Then if they did would be happy to talk to them further but certainly not going to supply an essay to sell myelf.

I agree. It seems some people believe buyers need to crawl and grovel in order to get a pup. I'd rather shop elsewhere.

Breeders put a lot of time and effort in to raising the litter and get very attached to all the babies. We want what is best for them. These are our extended family.

We have every right to check buyers..it is not different to someone wanting to foster or adopt a child..even rent a house - however in the case of dogs, once they are sold the fate of that pup is purely in the hands of the new owner.

I absolutely agree that you should! There is 'normal' interrogation then there is the superior attitude that a lot of breeders have (not necessarily on here). As a groomer I hand out Dogzonline cards to clients for puppies but 99% end up going to pet shops as breeders have been rude, unhelpful and made my clients feel uncomfortable. I recently had one friend search for a pup, every single breeder was so rude (those that even bothered getting back to her) that she ended up with a different breed altogether - this was after I threatened to kill her if she bought BYB (which she very nearly did). This is not intended as breeder bashing, as I know they are just regular people and thus all sorts of personalities - but a lot do need to be more helpful in order to encourage Joe Public to go registered.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Clyde

[LuvsDobes]

Don't want to hijack the main purpose of this thread (sorry Perth Girl!), but when I went looking for and found my dogs, both breeders had an 'enquiry' form on their websites. I found this useful because it enabled me to give the breeder(s) the information they actually wanted, not a biography! The breeders obviously looked through their enquiries, both emailed me then to request I phone them and 'proceed to the next stage'. Worked so well for me as a starting point.