No Wonder Ppl Go To Bybs

[RiverStar-Aura]

Have been reading this thread with keen interest and was surprised with the troubles people have had in contacting breeders.

I've been searching around for well over a year to find a suitable Aussie Terrier breeder for myself and I've had no trouble with the one I selected. I sent a nice brief e-mail outlining the loss of my beloved Aussie Poochie and also mentioned about living in her neighbourhood -- it later turns out I met one of her little boys at the local Pet Barn and he's a delightful little man. This happened a year ago.

She currently had no litters available (her bitch had only just had them) but she kindly suggested other breeders (whose names I've heard floating around DOL) and also let me know her future litter plans. I let her know I wasn't in a hurry for a new puppy (I had Zeus who was just over a year old) so she promised to keep me updated. Fast forward 5 months and I received an e-mail saying her bitch had come into season and was being sent away to be mated.

Nothing eventuated from the mating (phantom pregnancy) so I wished her darling well through the process and she asked if I was still interested. Of course! I'm in no real hurry; the right pup for me will be here eventually! About a month ago now I received yet another e-mail saying that both her bitches came into season together and I'm now waiting to see if I'll have 1 or 2 litters to choose a puppy from.

PG, be patient with any breeder you choose; they're the people standing between you and a puppy. I agree that a responsible breeder wants the best for their puppies and as an animal lover myself, I understand completely. It's really no different to a mother putting her child up for adoption; they don't just pick any Tom, Dick or Harry and puppies should be no different.

Like others have said, your forever friend will find you; it may just take a little time. Best of luck finding him/her though!

[ozjen]

Ozjen,

Sorry. In Queensland at least it is a requirement from Dogs Qld, that papers are supplied with the puppy. If you don't want run the risk of that pup later bred from, desex prior to selling the puppy.

It is not up to us as breeders to thumb our noses at SOME of the rules we agree to abide by. But choose to abide by others.

It is our rule to supply papers, so therefore we must.

Hi Mystiqview, I'm in WA, don't know why Queensland comes up in my profile. While it is a requriement here to register all pups now there is no rule with regard to us having to supply papers to new owners. As stated in my earlier post I am not comfortable with an 8wk old pup being sterilized and while I understand why some breeders do I would rather try other options. Its been 4 years since I last bred a litter and the main reason is seeing this other breeder get burnt. Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

[RubyStar]

Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

And that is the quickest way to end ownership of well bred dogs for the general public. Or from breeders obtaining a nice bitch to start/continue their own lines for future generations... remember, you also had to start somewhere obtaining your show/breeding quality bitch

Edited March 19, 2011 by RubyStar

[*Lolapalooza*]

Definately ring Connie Redhead from Landmaster SA, she is great and has lovely ACD's

[Mystiqview]

Ozjen,

Sorry. In Queensland at least it is a requirement from Dogs Qld, that papers are supplied with the puppy. If you don't want run the risk of that pup later bred from, desex prior to selling the puppy.

It is not up to us as breeders to thumb our noses at SOME of the rules we agree to abide by. But choose to abide by others.

It is our rule to supply papers, so therefore we must.

Hi Mystiqview, I'm in WA, don't know why Queensland comes up in my profile. While it is a requriement here to register all pups now there is no rule with regard to us having to supply papers to new owners. As stated in my earlier post I am not comfortable with an 8wk old pup being sterilized and while I understand why some breeders do I would rather try other options. Its been 4 years since I last bred a litter and the main reason is seeing this other breeder get burnt. Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

I personally do not desex my puppies at 8 weeks. I realise there is only so much we can do to screen puppy buyers. To date I have not had that issue. Although I recently found out a BYB breeder was telling their puppy buyers that my big red boy was the sire of one of their litters. Would love to know how... when he is locked up here when I am not home. Miraculous conception??

Unfortunately there is nothing to stop the unscrupulous people from doing their dodgy antics. I know of some people who have copied pedigree certificates from those who have websites showing an individual dog's pedigree certificate and using that to say the dog is pedigree. It is amazing what you can do with photoshop.

[Baileys mum]

Have been reading this thread with keen interest and was surprised with the troubles people have had in contacting breeders.

I've been searching around for well over a year to find a suitable Aussie Terrier breeder for myself and I've had no trouble with the one I selected. I sent a nice brief e-mail outlining the loss of my beloved Aussie Poochie and also mentioned about living in her neighbourhood -- it later turns out I met one of her little boys at the local Pet Barn and he's a delightful little man. This happened a year ago.

She currently had no litters available (her bitch had only just had them) but she kindly suggested other breeders (whose names I've heard floating around DOL) and also let me know her future litter plans. I let her know I wasn't in a hurry for a new puppy (I had Zeus who was just over a year old) so she promised to keep me updated. Fast forward 5 months and I received an e-mail saying her bitch had come into season and was being sent away to be mated.

Nothing eventuated from the mating (phantom pregnancy) so I wished her darling well through the process and she asked if I was still interested. Of course! I'm in no real hurry; the right pup for me will be here eventually! About a month ago now I received yet another e-mail saying that both her bitches came into season together and I'm now waiting to see if I'll have 1 or 2 litters to choose a puppy from.

PG, be patient with any breeder you choose; they're the people standing between you and a puppy. I agree that a responsible breeder wants the best for their puppies and as an animal lover myself, I understand completely. It's really no different to a mother putting her child up for adoption; they don't just pick any Tom, Dick or Harry and puppies should be no different.

Like others have said, your forever friend will find you; it may just take a little time. Best of luck finding him/her though!

I hope your breeder has better luck this time riverstar-aura & you finally get your gorgeous Aussie terrier dream puppy, don't forget to post in the Aussie terrier thread when you get him/her. :D

[Shazzapug]

I have been looking for a blue heeler puppy for at least 8 months now. I have emailed Perth breeders and tried calling. I got back ONE email. This is what i sent...

I am very interested in buying a gorgeous Blue Heeler puppy, purely for pet

purposes. I have emailed before and didnt receive a reply, so I thought I

would try again.

Would you please be able to tell me a little bit about your pups and what

the criteria is, to be considered by you to give one of these pups a

forever home. I would also love to be able to come and visit your dogs if

possible.

Thank you

This is the reply I got...

We do not have any puppies at the moment, but we do run a puppy waitlist

where a $100 deposit (non refundable) is paid and people wait until we have

puppies available. Do you wish to go on the waitlist? Puppies sell for

$700 without papers. If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*

WTF! That wasnt helpful at all! Its no wonder people go to backyard breeders when real breeders either wont return calls or emails, or dont offer the information that was originally asked!

Also, that email was sent at the start of Feb and i have just checked their website and they had 2 litters a week later and the pups arent sold or on hold apparently

Your answer to this reply should have been....Sorry I was after an ethical registered breeder!....that is bullsh!t as suggested go to a few shows and find a breeder that you like..first impressions...and go from there.

[ozjen]

Ozjen,

Sorry. In Queensland at least it is a requirement from Dogs Qld, that papers are supplied with the puppy. If you don't want run the risk of that pup later bred from, desex prior to selling the puppy.

It is not up to us as breeders to thumb our noses at SOME of the rules we agree to abide by. But choose to abide by others.

It is our rule to supply papers, so therefore we must.

Hi Mystiqview, I'm in WA, don't know why Queensland comes up in my profile. While it is a requriement here to register all pups now there is no rule with regard to us having to supply papers to new owners. As stated in my earlier post I am not comfortable with an 8wk old pup being sterilized and while I understand why some breeders do I would rather try other options. Its been 4 years since I last bred a litter and the main reason is seeing this other breeder get burnt. Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

I personally do not desex my puppies at 8 weeks. I realise there is only so much we can do to screen puppy buyers. To date I have not had that issue. Although I recently found out a BYB breeder was telling their puppy buyers that my big red boy was the sire of one of their litters. Would love to know how... when he is locked up here when I am not home. Miraculous conception??

Unfortunately there is nothing to stop the unscrupulous people from doing their dodgy antics. I know of some people who have copied pedigree certificates from those who have websites showing an individual dog's pedigree certificate and using that to say the dog is pedigree. It is amazing what you can do with photoshop.

Yes, its hard to know what the answer is. I bet you were not impressed to find out about that BYB misrepresenting your dog. I think I would have been out for blood if it had been me.

I hate that the genuine people often suffer because of the dishonest few and yes Rubystar it does make it alot harder for those wanting to get something on mains. Even breeders come up against issues though,ie some stud dog owners will limit how many pups can be mains registered in a litter which may be fine in most cases but I have also seen litters where the whole litter where worthy of running on (unfortunately not mine ). Now breeders have their reasons for doing this but from the bitch owners perspective they are not out to breed just pets which is what most of the litter essessially becomes before it is even born with this limitation. Ok no pup in a litter may be worthy of main registering but to have it decided on how many can before they are born would be frustrating too if it was a really good litter.

There are alot of pros and cons to every breeders decision depending on who's point of veiw you look at it from but ultimately they are just trying to protect their chosen breed any way they can.

Will it help, who knows, will it be detremental to the breed who knows, probabaly a little of both, I often wonder myself but as yet there is no ideal answer.

[Gayle.]

I have been looking for a blue heeler puppy for at least 8 months now. I have emailed Perth breeders and tried calling. I got back ONE email. This is what i sent...

I am very interested in buying a gorgeous Blue Heeler puppy, purely for pet

purposes. I have emailed before and didnt receive a reply, so I thought I

would try again.

Would you please be able to tell me a little bit about your pups and what

the criteria is, to be considered by you to give one of these pups a

forever home. I would also love to be able to come and visit your dogs if

possible.

Thank you

This is the reply I got...

We do not have any puppies at the moment, but we do run a puppy waitlist

where a $100 deposit (non refundable) is paid and people wait until we have

puppies available. Do you wish to go on the waitlist? Puppies sell for

$700 without papers. If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*

WTF! That wasnt helpful at all! Its no wonder people go to backyard breeders when real breeders either wont return calls or emails, or dont offer the information that was originally asked!

Also, that email was sent at the start of Feb and i have just checked their website and they had 2 litters a week later and the pups arent sold or on hold apparently

Your answer to this reply should have been....Sorry I was after an ethical registered breeder!....that is bullsh!t as suggested go to a few shows and find a breeder that you like..first impressions...and go from there.

There might not be that many dog shows in WA, and there might be no ACD's shown there, even if there's a show on soon. There aren't many shown in Vic, which is one of the states with the higher number of entries and more shows, so it's likely that there are none or very few being shown in WA.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

And that is the quickest way to end ownership of well bred dogs for the general public. Or from breeders obtaining a nice bitch to start/continue their own lines for future generations... remember, you also had to start somewhere obtaining your show/breeding quality bitch

I understand how Ozjen feels, I could never breed as in my mind no one could look after a dog as well as i do and I would be worried constantly about the pups andif they are being well looked after.

[Bartok]

I have been looking for a blue heeler puppy for at least 8 months now. I have emailed Perth breeders and tried calling. I got back ONE email. This is what i sent...

I am very interested in buying a gorgeous Blue Heeler puppy, purely for pet

purposes. I have emailed before and didnt receive a reply, so I thought I

would try again.

Would you please be able to tell me a little bit about your pups and what

the criteria is, to be considered by you to give one of these pups a

forever home. I would also love to be able to come and visit your dogs if

possible.

Thank you

This is the reply I got...

We do not have any puppies at the moment, but we do run a puppy waitlist

where a $100 deposit (non refundable) is paid and people wait until we have

puppies available. Do you wish to go on the waitlist? Puppies sell for

$700 without papers. If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*

WTF! That wasnt helpful at all! Its no wonder people go to backyard breeders when real breeders either wont return calls or emails, or dont offer the information that was originally asked!

Also, that email was sent at the start of Feb and i have just checked their website and they had 2 litters a week later and the pups arent sold or on hold apparently

Look at flying one from East Coast

There is always so many Cattle dogs in Foster care and who need

saving. Including puppies

Australian Cattle Dog Resuce have a foster carer in Perth

[Miranda]

If someone really wants a quality puppy from an ethical registered breeder then they'll be prepared to do the research and take their time finding a breeder who fits all their criteria. If they're so impatient that they'll give up and rush off to a BYB just because the first few breeders they contact don't reply then so be it, their puppy, their choice. Personally I wouldn't want to sell a puppy to this sort of buyer anyway.

Regarding the email received, I wouldn't have anything to do with a breeder who sells puppies without papers even if it isn't a requirement in that particular state. If you can't find a suitable breeder locally, try interstate.

[RubyStar]

Would be nice if we could just put in an order to our bitches for just one or two quality pups of whatever sex we required so that no pups had to be sold on.

And that is the quickest way to end ownership of well bred dogs for the general public. Or from breeders obtaining a nice bitch to start/continue their own lines for future generations... remember, you also had to start somewhere obtaining your show/breeding quality bitch

I understand how Ozjen feels, I could never breed as in my mind no one could look after a dog as well as i do and I would be worried constantly about the pups andif they are being well looked after.

Of course I do too, but wishing the dog would only pop out a pup solely for the breeder to avoid the problem means the end of pedigree purebred dog ownership for us all, even us honest ones. I know ozjen said it in jest, but it's still a point I want to make because it makes me mad that the dishonest people out there make it hard for us honest ones because they cause breeders to guard their stock even closer, and yes in some cases, rightfully so.

Edited March 21, 2011 by RubyStar

[Clyde]

Just reading through this thread and got to ask - why do potential puppy purchasers have to 'sell themselves' to breeders?

It just seems you have to submit a resume and you might just get a dog allocated to you - huh but puppy buyers are customers and breeders are suppliers. Sure can see the breeders asking some basic questions such as about fencing, family (ie young kids, old kids, no kids), owned dogs before, etc but really if you have to apply to buy something of course they (buyers) will see an ad in the paper or online or simply buy whta they see at the pet shop. Far easier than going through an inquisition.

If I was looking for a puppy I'd only be putting a basic 'looking for puppy do you have any available in the near future' type email enquiry. Then if they did would be happy to talk to them further but certainly not going to supply an essay to sell myelf.

I agree. It seems some people believe buyers need to crawl and grovel in order to get a pup. I'd rather shop elsewhere.

[RubyStar]

Just reading through this thread and got to ask - why do potential puppy purchasers have to 'sell themselves' to breeders?

It just seems you have to submit a resume and you might just get a dog allocated to you - huh but puppy buyers are customers and breeders are suppliers. Sure can see the breeders asking some basic questions such as about fencing, family (ie young kids, old kids, no kids), owned dogs before, etc but really if you have to apply to buy something of course they (buyers) will see an ad in the paper or online or simply buy whta they see at the pet shop. Far easier than going through an inquisition.

If I was looking for a puppy I'd only be putting a basic 'looking for puppy do you have any available in the near future' type email enquiry. Then if they did would be happy to talk to them further but certainly not going to supply an essay to sell myelf.

I agree. It seems some people believe buyers need to crawl and grovel in order to get a pup. I'd rather shop elsewhere.

My mum enquired about a puppy a few weeks ago, just to see if they are planning any litters, and they wrote back the next day to say they are expecting a litter or two in a few months and if they are interested in one to reply ASAP. So my mum had a think, decided they'd like to go on the list and replied the next day to say so and invited the breeder to ask her anything she wanted and asked if she'd like to speak to her in person first or if they can visit them at a show. 2 weeks later, still no response to the email. She sent a follow up one to see if they got her reply, and haven't replied. I've told her not to be disheartened yet, as they might not check email all the time, but after 2 weeks of no response after they asked her to get back to them ASAP, I can see how she would be disheartened about this process. This after I have hammered into my family where to get their next dog from. My sister and her hubby and now my parents are looking at pups from registered breeders so I thought I'd done a good job in educating, but when breeders don't get back to them, it weakens our argument on where to source a good pup from!

[spyda62]

Surely, to a degree, it is up to Ethical registered breeders to educate people as to why they have such a tough criteria for their potential puppy buyers?

I know from my own personal experience that after trying for 5 months to buy a purbred, papered puppy, I went and brought one from a petshop (this was nearly 6 years ago). I went to a petshop out of pure ignorance and frustration. I had no idea what was expected from me. Maybe if just 1 person had explained what I was doing or saying wrong the outcome "may" have been different. I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

[perth_girl]

I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

Exactly how Im feeling.

[Miranda]

I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

Exactly how Im feeling.

Go to a BYB then, as their prime motive for breeding is profit I've no doubt their sales and communications skills are excellent, far better than those of a bunch of elitist snobs. After all it's your money and your choice.

[Greytmate]

I was definately very motivated to do the "right" thing and get a purebred puppy. Instead I walked away from the epxperience feeling I had been very badly treated by a bunch of elitist snobs ( obviously my views have changed over the years).

Exactly how Im feeling.

Well if you go back and think about all the advice given in this thread, and possible reasons why you didnt get the email response you wanted, you might feel differently.

Nobody is promising you excellent customer service. There isn't enough profit in good dog breeding for the type of service you might get buying a car or a house. But if you want a really good dog, you put your feelings about breeders aside and keep trying.

It might be worth you contacting ACD rescue (anywhere in Australia), letting them know what you are after in a dog and telling them a bit about your life and family. They may have a dog in foster care that will meet your needs for a happy healthy dog, and you won't have to deal with breeders.

The only person that will directly benefit from you getting a dog is you. Nobody is going to make a fortune out of you, or chase you for your business. So the dog you get out of this whole buying process will reflect the effort that you are willing to put in. Going to a BYB or petshop will lessen your chance of getting a good dog, it isn't a direct threat to a hobby breeder or anyone else here.

[Sandra777]

Surely, to a degree, it is up to Ethical registered breeders to educate people as to why they have such a tough criteria for their potential puppy buyers?

Not knowing your specific experience perhaps a generalisation is not appropriate but the vast majority of people I have dealt with over the (many) years who end up in a huff and saying we're a bunch of elitist snobs HAVE been told why good breeders care about where their puppies go - it's just they don't want to hear that they're not suitable owner for the breed they have in mind (or a pet rock in some circumstances) or they aren't allowed to breed from their PET ONLY puppy or they can't have xyz colour with abc markings just because they want one.

I'd explain it this way.

If you want to buy a fridge that will keep stuff cold, by all means go along to your nearest discount retailer and buy the cheapest one they have. Set aside a similar amount because in a couple of years time you will no doubt be buying another one.

If you want to buy a fridge that will look good in your kitchen, has good technology inside and will either stand the test of time or be covered by a proper warranty, then do some research, check out your brands and choose the best brand for your purpose and price.