No Wonder Ppl Go To Bybs

[perth_girl]

I have been looking for a blue heeler puppy for at least 8 months now. I have emailed Perth breeders and tried calling. I got back ONE email. This is what i sent...

I am very interested in buying a gorgeous Blue Heeler puppy, purely for pet

purposes. I have emailed before and didnt receive a reply, so I thought I

would try again.

Would you please be able to tell me a little bit about your pups and what

the criteria is, to be considered by you to give one of these pups a

forever home. I would also love to be able to come and visit your dogs if

possible.

Thank you

This is the reply I got...

We do not have any puppies at the moment, but we do run a puppy waitlist

where a $100 deposit (non refundable) is paid and people wait until we have

puppies available. Do you wish to go on the waitlist? Puppies sell for

$700 without papers. If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*

WTF! That wasnt helpful at all! Its no wonder people go to backyard breeders when real breeders either wont return calls or emails, or dont offer the information that was originally asked!

Also, that email was sent at the start of Feb and i have just checked their website and they had 2 litters a week later and the pups arent sold or on hold apparently

Edited March 18, 2011 by perth_girl

[HugUrPup]

*Steps away slowly*

I have a feeling this is going to go sour.

Should I risk agreeing with your post and having my head chewed off?

What the hey...

That's ludicrous. Way to have people turn to pet shops.

Geesh

[Mason_Gibbs]

I have always had good, fast replies from the lab breeders in perth

[Greytmate]

If you ask them what their criteria is, they may be reluctant to respond by email. They will have a criteria, but may prefer to check prospective puppy buyers out in their own way, rather than being able to write down a list. Many puppy buyers will happily and convincingly agree to any criteria a breeder cares to set, knowing full well they will do differently once the dog is home.

What can you offer a puppy? It is good for you to list all the things that make you a good potential dog owner. Unprompted by what a breeder's criteria may be. A breeder may be flexible and want to look at the whole picture of you as a dog owner and get a feeling about you, they may not have a strict checklist of criteria.

Your email is asking the breeder to make the effort and tell you more about themselves. You need to put in some legwork yourself first, find out about different breeders, and then email them. Instead you are sending out this email to a large number of breeders that you have never met. If there is a high demand for pups then you will probably have to go on a waiting list of some sort and be able to explain or demonstrate why you would be a suitable dog owner.

Go to some dog shows, talk to people after they have come out of the ring, be friendly. You will have plenty of time, the breed is judged early in the day.

You will have the dog for over ten years. If you want a really good one, you might just have to wait.

[perth_girl]

The amount of 'leg work' that some breeders expect, should go both ways. I understand they want the best homes, but I also want a good dog. Why should I reveal everything about myself when they wont even reveal anything about themselves? I could easily list all my qualities in an email, but I feel as though I should get some kind of level of respect from them, because I would want one of their dogs. The could have dodged that particular question and answered my other ones. To some people, its not just any dog they want. I really liked this breeders dogs and wanted one of theirs, but their reply email came across as 'give me $100 and then we'll talk'. To a buyer, thats not worthy of my time. They cant expect me to hand over $100 without giving me SOME kind of information.

I thought I was doing the right thing by asking about her dogs, asking to be able to come and see them and her, DID NOT mention price at all....these are all things I have learnt on this forum to do when emailing a breeder.

With this kind of a reply its just easier to pick up a newspaper and find a dog that way. Like I said, no wonder people are turning to pet shops and backyard breeders. I have been more than happy to wait and have been looking for a long time. To get this kind of a response just baffled me.

Would also like to point out, I posted in the ACD section of this forum asking any breeders if i may come and meet their dogs...I have had no replies there either.

[Starkehre]

pg, I am sorry you are having some difficulty making a good contact with breeder.

Where are you sourcing these breeders from?

I am wondering if they are perhaps being a little precious about the breed name you are giving your prospective puppy? Maybe they are of the belief that if you were a serious contender for a pup you would know that the name of your chosen breed is an Australian Cattle Dog. Not sure, just trying to assist in advising as to why breeders may not be responding to you.

Also, how do you know that some of the puppies from the same litter of those puppies that you now see on a particular website have not gone to homes with people that did go on their waiting list and left their deposit? If you chose not to go down that path you can hardly expect them to have contacted you. A waiting list does not necessarily mean that all the pups are spoken for prior to the litter whelping. The request for a prospective puppy person to leave a deposit and go on a list is in efforts of the breeder trying to sort of which inquiries are legitimate and which ones are not. If you did not respond to that email or chose to not proceed, then naturally you would have been seen to not be interested anymore, which wouuld be a fair assumption I would think.

I am not saying you should have proceeded with that breeder. That is only for you to decide.

I tend to agree with Greytmate, if you outlay in your letter a little more information about what you can offer in the way of a fantastic home, perhaps some breeders may be more forthcoming with responses.

Personally I do find it sad that not all puppy queries are responded to, but I guess all you can do is work on your side which is your initial approach, and hopefully you might get a better result. But please do not give up. Purchasing from a BYB is not the answer. I understand your frustration, but in the long run, I feel confident that you will be happier when you find the right breeder of your new puppy via a more reputable and ethical source.

There have been serveral threads on similar stories to yours of recent times. Perhaps do a search and see what others suggest you include in your initial contact email.

Good luck with your searching.

[perth_girl]

I got the breeders from a list online of Perth breeders. Wont say which because Im not sure if Im allowed.

I used 'Blue Heelers' because their website used it many many times instead of ACD, so I assumed I wouldnt be frowned upon by using it myself.

I assume the dogs arent on hold because in the past when they have had litters available, the pics they put up instantly have 'Sold' or 'on hold' writting beside each corresponding puppy, and these newer litters have 'available'.

I most definitely didnt reply to that email because, from what I received, I do not wish to purchase one of their pups. I honestly did not expect doing the right thing and going through a breeder would be this upsetting and difficult. I assumed breeders would be welcoming and friendly, happy to talk about their dogs. I understand them being protective, but it came across very money-hungry. If I walked into a shop and said "I'd like to by a stereo" and they said "sure give me $100 and then I'll think about showing you some", id walk out the door. (And yes, I know a pup is nothing like a stereo....just using it as an analogy)

[RallyValley]

A WA DOLer got there Blue Heeler from a BYBand has had pretty bad temperament issues with her. I would be very careful with this breed as temperament can be an issue.

There are no ACD/BH actively showing in WA (by that I mean often, I think there are a few that go to major shows) and I don't think there are many ANKC registered breeders in the state.

[RallyValley]

Just looked at DOL listings - only two breeders listed neither had a website so I assume you are not talking about these breeders. Maybe contact these?

Also in WA all dogs must be registered however sadly it is nit a rule that the breeder has to give you a copy of the papers. I would avoid a breeder who charges more for papers because if the pup us registered it is not costing them to give you the papers.

[hortfurball]

Perth_girl, I think you've taken their email the wrong way.

Firstly, they didn't say you had to pay $100 before they'd talk to you, they merely asked if you'd like to go on the wait list. Your reply "Yes, I'd be willing to go on the wait list and pay a $100 deposit, please tell me more about your pups."

But I'm getting ahead of myself here because to be quite honest, their email sounds like a carefully thought out standard response email that they automatically send out in response to any puppy enquiries to weed out the 'tyre kickers'. They have told you what their standard procedure is (the wait list), have volunteered the price and prompted you to contact them directly "If you wish other information, please phone *name and number here*" (The underlying message here is "We prefer to speak to you on the phone")

What that says to me, especially in light of the fact that they have pups on the ground is "We don't have the time to trawl through hundreds of emails trying to determine who is genuine and answer all the questions, if you make the effort to pick up the phone, we'll make the effort to tell you whatever you'd like to know"

Two different interpretations - just goes to show that the written word is never as clear as we think.

If you want your pup, call them.

[Tintin Jac]

I agree with Hortfuball in that you may have misinterpreted their message. They say to give them a call if you'd like more info. Why don't you give that a try? You might be pleasantly surprised.

[juice]

You got far more than i did when i was looking for a mature dog from a breeder recently

To be honest, i would have written an email about myself, my experience with the breed, and my family set up, and asked it they had anything suitable,you need to sell yourself a bit, however i did all this, and got no replies!

At least they replied, and they did ask you to call.

Perhaps they prefer to contact by phone, some do.

To be honest, without the help of a doler in my breed who pm'd me, and found a mature bitch looking for a home, i may have given up.

[stormie]

What I learned when looking for a Dane pup was how important it is to do your research on Breeders and lines first, then when you've found one you're happy is ethical and has sound, healthy pups, then stick to them and persevere.

Go to dog shows and speak to people. Ask people within the breed to give you recommendations of who to look at and who to steer clear of.

I found that there were some not so ethical breeders in my breed who sounded fantastic over email and seemed to be doing all the right things. If I didn't speak to others about those breeders, I'd probably have ended up with one of their pups.

Also keep in mind that breeders can be wary of peoples intentions. Their pups and lines are very important to them and they only want the very best with them and to know the homes they've chosen are genuine.

So I would suggest speaking to people in the breed first. Tell them what your family lifestyle is like, what you what to do with the pup etc. They will hopefully be able to give you a shortlist of breeders to look at. Do some more research on them and when you've found the one you want to be your breeder, let them know! Tell them about the research you've done and how they're the breeders you hope to breed your next puppy. Tell them about yourself and what you hope to get out of having a puppy. Develop a relationship.

Personally, I would get a bit of a red light if a breeders criteria to get a pup is money to go on a wait list. I wouldn't totally discount them, but I'd want to find out more.

Edited March 18, 2011 by stormie

[WoofnHoof]

I'm with you OP I think that was a very off putting email, it's all well and good to get advice about the best way to 'sell yourself' to a breeder but when you only want a pet why on earth would you bother researching lines and what not?

I totally agree that the vast majority of the general public are a) not going to understand why they have to sell themselves, they aren't applying for a job they want to give a pup a home, and b) not going to put in the effort off their own bat without knowing why and why would they when there are plenty of other cattle dog breeders out there who will happily sell them a pup.

Asking $100 deposit with no pups on the ground is the height of rudeness IMO, as is selling without papers even though I understand that it's not compulsory over there it's still kind of the point of going through the rigmarole of buying from a registered breeder.

I understand that breeders want to weed out time wasters but this approach does nothing whatsoever to encourage people not to go to pet shops, the vast majority of the puppy buying public are not going to view that email along the lines of 'oh well they are trying to weed out non serious buyers so they can establish a rapport with their puppy buyers' nope they are going to view it as snobby, off putting, money grubbing and rude. JMO.

[poodlefan]

The best advice I can give you Perth Girl is not to limit yourself to WA breeders.

Even on the East Coast many of us buy from out of state. Don't let distance stop you from finding the right dog from the right breeder. It's not something you're going to have to do often.

[Ons]

there are 114 ACD breeders on the DOL pages with 16 listed as having puppies for sale including in South Australia.

I agree with poodlefan don't limit yourself with WA breeders.

You will find a pup but it may take awhile but considering this pup is going to be your best friend for well over the next 12 years and with cattle dogs you really need to be careful to ensure that the dog has good temperament a bit of waiting and looking won't go astray. It's not that expensive to fly pups around Australia now, even the world.

Hop into the ACD thread on DOL and ask for some help too. I fostered some blue ACDs last year including a stumpy tail - now i understand why people love the breed, they were all such gorgeous faithful dogs

[shortstep]

Just my 2 cents.

I do not like the idea that they sell their pups with no papers. That would put me totally off this breeders. Are they even ANKC dogs or are they farm bred dogs? If they are farm bred unregistered dogs they are selling them way way over priced at 700.00. If they are ANKC pups, then they should be registered on Limited and the papers given to the buyer.

Waiting list/Deposits does not bother me at all. Most good breeders will have a waiting list and the deposit is to assure both, that the buyer is not waiting for nothing and the breeder has a sincere home waiting for the pup, it means that you both have an agreement.

ACDs need some health testing, such as hearing tests, DNA PRA and hips. I would want to work with a breeder who is health testing and registering their pups with ANKC. Temperament is also important.

There are over 100 breeders listed on DOL. I would start by looking through these breeders personal web sites for indications that they health test. Take a look at their dogs and if you like them, then contact them about getting on a waiting list, pay the deposit and then wait. Do not be put off by them being in another state, the pup can be shipped to you.

If your emails do not get a response then try calling them.

Some things are worth the effort and the time invested.

Be positive and you will find the perfect puppy and will be enjoying puppy breath sooner than you think.

Edited March 18, 2011 by shortstep

[Inevitablue]

I had no dramas with getting my puppy. My initial email explained my experience with the breed, what I wanted the dog for, why I liked her dogs and when would she have a litter available.

The reply back was quite short like the one you recieved, but I took it that my email must have been worth a reply! I then rang her as the email suggested and all went smoothly.

There are lots of ACD breeders in NSW so you wont have a problem with sourcing a puppy.

If you want to see some of the info the breeders want from you, look at these people http://www.tagetarl.com/Application.html I agree with the final statement on that page.

My breeder doesnt have another litter planned until Nov/Dec, but she has some puppies currently that she is looking after for someone else. They would be coming up to ~ 6/7 weeks old now. If you email her she will respond, but it will be a simple email like you just received. Her kennel is listed on DOL - Willowpark Kennels.

Research the kennels, some are just all about the conformation and not the temperment. There are some that pump out puppies likes there's no tomorrow.

Perth Girl, if you were selling something and everyone just wanted to correspond via email it would drive you mad. Pick up the phone and get the answers you want immediately. If I ever breed I will be an absolute Nazi making sure my puppies are going to the right homes, ACD's need the right owners.

Good luck, and start puppy proofing your house now! they are mini cyclones but so much fun

[fuzzy82]

That is silly, it's not like the options are breeder vs pet store/byb.

There are rescues and shelters that you could go to, heeler x's seem to be pretty common.

[rubiton]

Just reading through this thread and got to ask - why do potential puppy purchasers have to 'sell themselves' to breeders?

It just seems you have to submit a resume and you might just get a dog allocated to you - huh but puppy buyers are customers and breeders are suppliers. Sure can see the breeders asking some basic questions such as about fencing, family (ie young kids, old kids, no kids), owned dogs before, etc but really if you have to apply to buy something of course they (buyers) will see an ad in the paper or online or simply buy whta they see at the pet shop. Far easier than going through an inquisition.

If I was looking for a puppy I'd only be putting a basic 'looking for puppy do you have any available in the near future' type email enquiry. Then if they did would be happy to talk to them further but certainly not going to supply an essay to sell myelf.