Labradoodle Pedgiree Or Not?

[Deejay]

Really I have no problem if someone wants to register the labradoodle as a breed, its never going to affect me because i'd never own one. Hardly anything is purebred these days if you look back through their lineage. I find it fruitless in a way to put effort into stopping these things, people will get their way eventually anyway if there is a lot of people wanting change.

My parent's own a labradoodle from an apparently very popular "breeder" and its a complete nutcase, making their lives hell, its heartbreaking for them. It blindly bolts for no apparent reason. After doing some research I would strongly suggest people stay away from this cross! Sorry if that is offensive to anyone, its just my personal opinion from experience!

[poodlefan]

If any of the DDs is going to make a registered breed it will be the Lab/poodle one.

Bear in mind that it won't be done with F1 crosses, they'll need to agree on a standard that doesn't allow such a wide range of features and they'll need to change the bloody name.

I'd hate to think that the development of new dog breeds is over. If people want to do the hard yards to develop and register a new breed then I wish them luck.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Not a good cross as they are so variable in the end result - ie not non-shedding and from what I've often seen, pretty full on dogs which often don't suit the owner.

Cross breeding is never going to be that great an idea because you cannot predict which of the characteristics a puppy will inherit. I have a house full of cross breeds that I've rescued. One looks like a bit like a chi type but has legs like the JRT and you've guessed it - she's all JRT in nature.

I was speaking to someone yesterday who'd gone to the same "breeder" to get her second dog - another Malt/Shihtzu cross. Just because these bybs are calling themselves "breeders', some people then think their dogs are purebred .... or becase a purebred female was bred with a purebred male (of another breed)and they've parted with a lot of $$ they have a purebred. WTF?

Edited March 18, 2011 by dogmad

[shortstep]

If any of the DDs is going to make a registered breed it will be the Lab/poodle one.

Bear in mind that it won't be done with F1 crosses, they'll need to agree on a standard that doesn't allow such a wide range of features and they'll need to change the bloody name.

I'd hate to think that the development of new dog breeds is over. If people want to do the hard yards to develop and register a new breed then I wish them luck.

I believe Labrodoodles are already an internationally recognized and registered breed (ANKC is not the only registry in the world of dogs).

Just a quick look on line shows, the Labradoodle Club of Australia, of America, of Great Britain, of Canada, the list goes on, all of which are registries with rules written to serve their interests and ideals.

BTW there are breeds in the past, there are breeds currently and there will be many breeds in the future the will not have physical show ring standards as the foundation of their breeds existence nor the foundation of their breeding goals. In fact there is a big push in the world today to move away from that type of dog breeding model, has to do with animal rights and welfare issues. So I would fully expect that there will be many groups and individual dog breeders moving towards the new future in dog breeding where physical show standards are not present or if present it wil be in some other form and will not be used the way they are currently used in the kennel clubs.

Exciting times.

[frufru]

Since this forum was created to serve the interests of purebred dogs (AS PER ANKC) I am really annoyed by this thread. I find it insulting to poodles and labs and I don't care how many "other" registries exist or how wonderful they are. I belong to this forum because I have ANKC registered dogs and want to engage in talk with others who who are also interested in purebred dogs.

Edited March 18, 2011 by frufru

[poodlemum]

Since this forum was created to serve the interests of purebred dogs (AS PER ANKC) I am really annoyed by this thread. I find it insulting to poodles and labs and I don't care how many "other" registries exist or how wonderful they are. I belong to this forum because I have ANKC registered dogs and want to engage in talk with others who who are also interested in purebred dogs.

I agree with you 100% frufru - I also made this point but was shouted down by the know-it-alls on here I still consider this entire thread a contravention of forum rules and believe that people who are posting on here defending BYB dogs should not be on a pure breed forum.

[WoofnHoof]

It seems though that there is a difference between backyard breeders and breeders adhering to a registry, I'm not 100% up on the forum rules but I don't think they specifically state no discussion on breeds in development or breeds other than ANKC recognized breeds. What about working registries? What about breeds recognized in other countries?

It might be distressing to poodle purists that their breed is being used in the development of this new breed, but the fact is that the niche exists, if it's not filled by poodles and there are no other options available it will be filled by crosses until a new breed is developed to take it's place, that is what happens with breeds, a need arises and selective breeding takes place. The majority of people talking about the registries are not taking about f1 crosses, they are talking about many generations and serious attempts by the registries to produce a 'breed'.

As far as the motivations go, well there are plenty of motivations for breeding dogs and it doesn't have to be just work, the working role of dogs has changed in our society and so what we need in a dog has also changed. We condemn people for wanting to reproduce their 'great pet' yet many breeds were developed because of one or two 'great' dogs. At least give credit where it's due and recognize that a developing breed is just that and should not be confused with f1 crosses.

[D & D]

It seems though that there is a difference between backyard breeders and breeders adhering to a registry, I'm not 100% up on the forum rules but I don't think they specifically state no discussion on breeds in development or breeds other than ANKC recognized breeds. What about working registries? What about breeds recognized in other countries?

It might be distressing to poodle purists that their breed is being used in the development of this new breed, but the fact is that the niche exists, if it's not filled by poodles and there are no other options available it will be filled by crosses until a new breed is developed to take it's place, that is what happens with breeds, a need arises and selective breeding takes place. The majority of people talking about the registries are not taking about f1 crosses, they are talking about many generations and serious attempts by the registries to produce a 'breed'.

As far as the motivations go, well there are plenty of motivations for breeding dogs and it doesn't have to be just work, the working role of dogs has changed in our society and so what we need in a dog has also changed. We condemn people for wanting to reproduce their 'great pet' yet many breeds were developed because of one or two 'great' dogs. At least give credit where it's due and recognize that a developing breed is just that and should not be confused with f1 crosses.

Yeah, they do.

This site was created for pure bred dog discussion

The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by it's proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier'). Please do not start threads asking what breeds people think make up your cross-bred dog or to express your outrage at the latest designer dog you saw. We prefer to concentrate our discussion on the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised).

[koalathebear]

It's a shame people feel outraged and insulted. I think the thread has actually been quite respectful and it's been refreshing to see a discussion about possible future breeds that doesn't devolve into name-calling.

The forum rules do not prohibit speaking about non-ANKC-registered dogs - it says that the purpose of the forum is to discuss ANKC-registered dogs and that if you're speaking about other non-ANKC dogs, you shouldn't be promoting or voicing outrage about DDs. I don't think any of those rules have been violated in this thread. It would be a shame if the rules were changed to prohibit all discussion of non-ANKC-registered dogs because that would preclude discussion of working registry dogs, dogs not yet recognised in Australia but may be recognised elsewhere.

Dog breeds have been developing over centuries, it would be wrong and also sad to think that the development of any new breed stops here in the 21st century. I think we all agree that none of the newer faddish DDs have or are likely to make it as a new breed but I don't see anything wrong with critical speculation about what new breeds may come. From what everyone has said, it seems clear to me that if there is ever any new breed, it has to be derived for a particular purpose other than having a funky name but I'm really interested to know what new breeds will be developed this century and the rationale for their existence.

Edited March 18, 2011 by koalathebear

[mumtoshelley]

Since this forum was created to serve the interests of purebred dogs (AS PER ANKC) I am really annoyed by this thread. I find it insulting to poodles and labs and I don't care how many "other" registries exist or how wonderful they are. I belong to this forum because I have ANKC registered dogs and want to engage in talk with others who who are also interested in purebred dogs.

I agree 100% to this . Even if the lab cross poodle comes to be classed as a purebred i would never buy one to me there ugly, Everyone i have meet has been aggerssive towards other dogs. I couldn't see myself spending $900-$1000 for a mutt when i can buy a purebred lab or poodle from a registered breeder who does clearances and are breeding to make the breed better. Lab cross poodle breeders to me are only in it for the money. If the lab cross poodle becomes a purebred it won't be long before they try and make the pug cross beagle,rottweiler cross poodle,golden cross poodle etc purebred too.

[Kirty]

Dog breeds will always continue to be crossed to suit new purposes, whether that is for work or for pets. Vision Australia still cross Labs and Goldens to try and create a better seeing-eye dog. If someone is working to try and create a dog for whatever reason, then good on them - as long as they are doing all the relevant health checks. Unfortunately the vast majority of BYB are not doing this, they are simply breeding for the sake of breeding to try and make $$$.

[shortstep]

Since this forum was created to serve the interests of purebred dogs (AS PER ANKC) I am really annoyed by this thread. I find it insulting to poodles and labs and I don't care how many "other" registries exist or how wonderful they are. I belong to this forum because I have ANKC registered dogs and want to engage in talk with others who who are also interested in purebred dogs.

I agree 100% to this . Even if the lab cross poodle comes to be classed as a purebred i would never buy one to me there ugly, Everyone i have meet has been aggerssive towards other dogs. I couldn't see myself spending $900-$1000 for a mutt when i can buy a purebred lab or poodle from a registered breeder who does clearances and are breeding to make the breed better. Lab cross poodle breeders to me are only in it for the money. If the lab cross poodle becomes a purebred it won't be long before they try and make the pug cross beagle,rottweiler cross poodle,golden cross poodle etc purebred too.

Have you see these BYB breeders? They are actually putting Irish Setters to Newfoundlands and throwing in some mongrel spainals, can you believe it, what on earth are they thinking. It should be against the law. If you want a link to these cross bred ugly mutts let me know and I will post it.

[Kirty]

What about the people who bred Bassets with Spaniels?? Insane right?? Oh no wait, thats a recognised breed now.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/sussex.htm

[Kirty]

Someone was even crossing Rottweilers with Schnauzers and Airedales! Madness I tell you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Russian_Terrier

[koalathebear]

I think only after a lengthy period of time passes will we find out which are the new breeds that are here to stay and which are the fly by night fads. Out of interest, what are the 'recent' breeds that have been recognised only in the last few decades as a 'real' breed?

[poodlefan]

I think only after a lengthy period of time passes will we find out which are the new breeds that are here to stay and which are the fly by night fads. Out of interest, what are the 'recent' breeds that have been recognised only in the last few decades as a 'real' breed?

Tenterfield Terriers would probably be the breed most recently recognised by the ANKC.

I'd love to see the Murray River Curly Coated Retriever make that jump too.

[Kirty]

Black Russian Terriers are fairly new to the ANKC I believe?

[wuffles]

I think only after a lengthy period of time passes will we find out which are the new breeds that are here to stay and which are the fly by night fads. Out of interest, what are the 'recent' breeds that have been recognised only in the last few decades as a 'real' breed?

This wiki article is quite informative although it doesn't give dates. It's interesting to see how many breeds listed are recognised by one or two registries and not others.

[shortstep]

I think only after a lengthy period of time passes will we find out which are the new breeds that are here to stay and which are the fly by night fads. Out of interest, what are the 'recent' breeds that have been recognised only in the last few decades as a 'real' breed?

This wiki article is quite informative although it doesn't give dates. It's interesting to see how many breeds listed are recognised by one or two registries and not others.

this is a very incomplet list of registries.

That list does not even listing the working registry or the founding breed registry for many of the breeds.

For example

There are far more Aussies registered in ASCA than in the AKC. ASCA is not listed.

Jack Russels (name changed so am confused now) but the long legged kind, far more in the JRTC registry than in the AKC.

Border collies, 22000 a year registered into ABCA (not on the list), only 2-3000 into AKC. ISDS 7000 pups a year. BTW UK KC and AKC are open stud book to ABCA and ISDS, so they believe these are suitable dogs to be in the KC, the people just choose not to register them in the kennel clubs.

Kelpies WKC registers far more dogs (in the thousands more) than the ANKC.

When ever there is a working registry for a working breed there is usually far more dogs in that registry than in the show registries.

Edited March 19, 2011 by shortstep

[koalathebear]

this is a very incomplet list of registries.

I think it's still very illustrative though. People wrongly claim that this forum does not permit discussion of any breeds except ANKC registered dogs but you'll see that out of the 490+ breeds on that page that are registered with the registries listed, there are many dogs registered with other registries that the ANKC does not register. I don't think that means we're not allowed to talk about White Shepherd Dogs, Koolies, Thai Ridgebacks, Spanish Water Dogs and the New Guinea Singing Dog ... Or working line Kelpies registered with WKC. It would be a very curtailed and restrictive forum if that were the case.

I think that main thing is that we're not supposed to be extolling the virtues of DDs, which no one here is doing. The initial query has now turned into a discussion about possible future breeds and I don't see why that's against the spirit of the forum.

Edited March 19, 2011 by koalathebear