Facebook Buy Swap And Sell Sites

[pikespooches]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1090...1176&v=wall

That one has someone doing $20 dog microchipping

Yes that is our group RADAR trying to make a difference in the area. This is our first chipping day, and we hope to do more!

[pikespooches]

They don't remove dog-fight content in a hurry. I just don't see FB getting upset about the swap/sell or Aus microchip laws.

But if they charged a fee to individuals using the site to sell and trade animals I bet a lot would disappear overnight.

Terrible

[pikespooches]

Hi Kxxx. The mother is a red x blue healer father is a german shepard x lab

All those ACD breeders who get "red heeler" puppies out of "blue heeler" dogs are clearly involved in some sort of evil breeding magic. Next thing you know, horses will be coming out whales. Horses that aren't just healers but proper doctors.

I think I'd find these ads somewhat less offensive if the people churning out these poor creatures actually took the time to learn a little about them.

Back on topic.. given some of the other content on Facebook, I'm not surprised people are using it to sell animals. I probably still wouldn't be surprised if people started using it to sell their kids.

Like the rare yellow Border Colies I found.

[pikespooches]

How are you finding them all PP? Do you have some kind of search term thing set up?

Could it be worth bombarding these sites with statements to make a buyer think they might be getting ripped off or wasting their money? That's the only reason I can see that would put a person off. I was thinking things like "Blue staffies are not rare. Follow this link to see how common they are (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for staffy pups)" or "Buy one from a breeder for half the price here (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for that breed)" or for cats something like "It only costs $100 to desex a cat. It will cost you $300 to raise a litter of kittens if you don't." Obviously I just made the prices up. Or "If your dog gets out and it isn't microchipped, desexed and registered it will cost you $300 to get it back." Again I made the prices up. Or "Even if you only feed your dog PAL it will cost you $800 a year to feed it."

In the search bar I jsut randomly put a town and buy swap sell etc anything that leads to animals. RADAR like many good rescues has a FB page and even these BSS pages are good for general thing like an ongoing garage sale but not good for exploiting animals.

I agree bombarding them from all angles. But I do wonder if local government or the DLG would like to know what is happening, particularly in their back yard.

Oh i have found if you try to comment many block you and also one tried to report me to have me booted. Off. I haven't been booted off yet!

[JaneyA]

A few months ago, I started commenting on the Wagga Buy Swap and Sell ads for puppies, warning of the chip legislation. The seller usually deleted my post quickly, but not before I copped so much hateful abuse from the BYBers that I had to quit doing it for my own sanity

[KKDD]

How are you finding them all PP? Do you have some kind of search term thing set up?

Could it be worth bombarding these sites with statements to make a buyer think they might be getting ripped off or wasting their money? That's the only reason I can see that would put a person off. I was thinking things like "Blue staffies are not rare. Follow this link to see how common they are (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for staffy pups)" or "Buy one from a breeder for half the price here (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for that breed)" or for cats something like "It only costs $100 to desex a cat. It will cost you $300 to raise a litter of kittens if you don't." Obviously I just made the prices up. Or "If your dog gets out and it isn't microchipped, desexed and registered it will cost you $300 to get it back." Again I made the prices up. Or "Even if you only feed your dog PAL it will cost you $800 a year to feed it."

In the search bar I jsut randomly put a town and buy swap sell etc anything that leads to animals. RADAR like many good rescues has a FB page and even these BSS pages are good for general thing like an ongoing garage sale but not good for exploiting animals.

I agree bombarding them from all angles. But I do wonder if local government or the DLG would like to know what is happening, particularly in their back yard.

Oh I have found if you try to comment many block you and also one tried to report me to have me booted. Off. I haven't been booted off yet!

People in lots of jurisdictions openly break the law by advertising unmicrochipped dogs etc - but in most instances the local councils dont appear to have the resources (or perhaps its just not a priority) to follow these people up for law enforcement. Personally I think they wouldnt need to go all the way with a prosecution, they would get an awful lot of mileage by just sending an official-looking letter to the vendor, or even just giving the vendor a call, and letting them know what law they are breaking, and what the penalties are. In the absence of local governments taking any action, perhaps if people just sent these vendors the same message - "this is what the law says, and this is what the penalty is', a fair proportion would stop doing it - (albeit more out of respect for the penalty than for the law). You could even cc in the local ranger (or just threaten to notify them).

[pikespooches]

How are you finding them all PP? Do you have some kind of search term thing set up?

Could it be worth bombarding these sites with statements to make a buyer think they might be getting ripped off or wasting their money? That's the only reason I can see that would put a person off. I was thinking things like "Blue staffies are not rare. Follow this link to see how common they are (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for staffy pups)" or "Buy one from a breeder for half the price here (and put a link to the DOL for sale page for that breed)" or for cats something like "It only costs $100 to desex a cat. It will cost you $300 to raise a litter of kittens if you don't." Obviously I just made the prices up. Or "If your dog gets out and it isn't microchipped, desexed and registered it will cost you $300 to get it back." Again I made the prices up. Or "Even if you only feed your dog PAL it will cost you $800 a year to feed it."

In the search bar I jsut randomly put a town and buy swap sell etc anything that leads to animals. RADAR like many good rescues has a FB page and even these BSS pages are good for general thing like an ongoing garage sale but not good for exploiting animals.

I agree bombarding them from all angles. But I do wonder if local government or the DLG would like to know what is happening, particularly in their back yard.

Oh I have found if you try to comment many block you and also one tried to report me to have me booted. Off. I haven't been booted off yet!

People in lots of jurisdictions openly break the law by advertising unmicrochipped dogs etc - but in most instances the local councils dont appear to have the resources (or perhaps its just not a priority) to follow these people up for law enforcement. Personally I think they wouldnt need to go all the way with a prosecution, they would get an awful lot of mileage by just sending an official-looking letter to the vendor, or even just giving the vendor a call, and letting them know what law they are breaking, and what the penalties are. In the absence of local governments taking any action, perhaps if people just sent these vendors the same message - "this is what the law says, and this is what the penalty is', a fair proportion would stop doing it - (albeit more out of respect for the penalty than for the law). You could even cc in the local ranger (or just threaten to notify them).

I have contacted a few privately and I have at times questioned publicly as have others if the animals were chipped. The response is usually rather agressive and non of you business attitude.

I think it potentially is my business as if I was paying as a member of the public I would expect a chip and a vaccination as well lol. But also as I may end up with one of these animals in care because it was unwanted in the first place and rehomed poorly or it has wandered and landed in a pound and cannot be returned to its owner. People breeding a dog pure or otherwise have a duty of care to ensure that they are premanently identified.

Sorry it there are lots of typos have had a couple fo really big days with the kids at Yanco Ag and little sleep and I can hardly see the screen!

[pikespooches]

I wonder if this facebook site advocates all dogs sold on here are microchipped and if over 6 months are registered as well?

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=196842030351392#!/pages/Staffys-forsale-giveaway/173991855978143

[Jiggywoo]

I have been keeping an eye on some local Buy Swap and Sell pages and similar ones, All for pets etc.

Many have litter and unwanteds to give away and also byber are accessing these as well.

Some adminitrators are doing a good job and putting up there that animas must be chipped prior t give away and or sale but most people are flaunting htis and even disputing this is true. Some admins say it is not my responsibility what people put up there.

Hello it is your page so I see it as you are responsible.

Now if it is illegal to sell an animal on Ebay why can't it be so on pages like these. OOPs not illegal Danni corrected me on that!!

Should we all be writing yo the councils concerned pointing people that are breaking the law? I know many councils dont act upon these laws either. Or should we be reporting these pages and if so under what concern?

I agree wholeheartedly with you I reckon we should all try to contact the Councils concerned and check your own State for what is legal or not, i.e. must be microchipped, over 8 weeks old, etc.

I tend to talk to the breeders and some I make headway with and others just get completely mouthy and abusive. I always have a go at Staffy x accidental byb and giveaways.....telling them to go look at all the Pounds and the majority of dogs are kelpies and kelpie x, jrt's and staffy and crosses... There must be something we can do.... The other thing is if they give their real address and you note they sell a few, dob them in to the tax office...... 2 litters of say 9 puppies at anything from $300 to $500..... that is extra income.....

I had a go and two different bcat owners who had litters to sell... They were only 6 weeks old, I wrote to both of them. One replied and apologised but stated they weren't hers but she was making sure the Mum got desexed..... ... I felt for those poor babies...

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

A few months ago, I started commenting on the Wagga Buy Swap and Sell ads for puppies, warning of the chip legislation. The seller usually deleted my post quickly, but not before I copped so much hateful abuse from the BYBers that I had to quit doing it for my own sanity

But... why? It's the law... what the f is so hard to understand about that?

You see people on these sites trying to do the right thing - and then go on to put registered breeders in the same basket as pf/byb :rolleyes: There's a glaring repeat offender on the first page listed in the OP. If there were no registered breeders, there WOULD be no lovely purebreds to rescue. Then what? BYB takes over? No thanks. I love rescues as much as the next person and will definitely get another rescue in the future but my last was so unhealthy I only had her for two years, and most of that time was a struggle, and a nightmare. Losing her tore my heart out and 5 months later I still tear up just thinking about it. Breeding unhealthy dogs = more unhealthy dogs, how hard is that to understand?!

There's not even a proper option for reason of reporting the pages.

[misha&milo]

Gee's aren't some of these LOVELY people selling their pets "RED NECKS"

Half of them can not even spell.

Its all for a quick "buck"

How sad for the poor animals involved

[Guest donatella]

If you are not using these sites and don't like what you see. DON'T GO THERE

And misha&milo, why don'y you shove your head up your pompus arse, how dare you call people you DON'T f***IN KNOW "REDNECKS " there is no difference between people breeding purebreds and others who have crossbreds, Oh Im sorry there is a big difference you pay $1000's for a purebred that is bred to make its owner thousands of dollars per pup & the "Rednecks" who only charge a couple of hundred dollars.

You pompus pricks are the bastards that give the small time breeder a bad name.

Have you checked out you local pound lately, most of the dogs are pitbull, staffies and other "PUREBRED DOGS"

I will never microchip any of my dogs as I have no need too as I never take my dogs out of their yard without putting a leash on them before they even get out the front door, my backyard and front yard are extremely dog secure, mine don't ever get out of the yard and other dogs can't get into my yard.

I also don't believe that putting a foreign body into your pets is rediculous, as the body is constantly fighting to kill a foreign when it has entered the body, just like when you get a splinter of metal go into your skin so deep that you can't get it out, your body will start to attack it, and eventually a cyst forms, or a blood clot or even worse it moves into the blood stream and eventually into the lungs or heart or the brain.

HOW'S MY SPELLING FOR A "REDNECK"

And as for feeling sad for the poor animal involved at least they get homes, some are good and some are bad but you also get that when selling pedigree/ papered dogs, you don't know what the people are like when they come to buy a pup, they could appear to be the nicest people in the world when they pick the pup up to take it home and then they can chuck the pup in the backyard, maybe feed it once a week, give it the occassional kick in the head and eventually one day find it dead in the yard, under a tree on a stinking hot day with it's head in an empty water bowl.

I would like to know what the breeders of purebred- papered dogs do with the dogs they don't sell and the poor bitches who after a few years of breeding are retired what happens to them, do they get put down,taken to an animal rescue or dumped at the pound or maybe they even get taken for a drive in the family car down a long dirt road and dumped or maybe if the owner really cared about them they would buy a box of bullets and shoot the poor thing so no one finds its.

I have taken a screen shot of your comments and I'm going to post it on every pet classified I can find, including face book pages because people like you give the average Joe Blow a bad name, when its people like you that are the guilty ones.

SO KEEP YOUR FAT MOUTH SHUT, AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, " IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE DON'T BLOODY GO THERE "

I have been keeping an eye on some local Buy Swap and Sell pages and similar ones, All for pets etc.

Many have litter and unwanteds to give away and also byber are accessing these as well.

Some adminitrators are doing a good job and putting up there that animas must be chipped prior t give away and or sale but most people are flaunting htis and even disputing this is true. Some admins say it is not my responsibility what people put up there.

Hello it is your page so I see it as you are responsible.

Now if it is illegal to sell an animal on Ebay why can't it be so on pages like these. OOPs not illegal Danni corrected me on that!! :laugh:

Should we all be writing yo the councils concerned pointing people that are breaking the law? I know many councils dont act upon these laws either. Or should we be reporting these pages and if so under what concern?

There is a huge difference between registered breeders and BYBs. For one the registered breeders only breed with sound, healthy parents and know their full lineage and that they're doing their best to produce sound healthy pups. BYBs are only out to make a quick buck, no health testing goes into the dogs, and they will match any bitch and a dog just to get pups.

The money registered breeders put into health tests and importing dogs to better their bloodlines etc means that they very rarely make any profit at all. BYBs only mate any dog and bitch and providing whelping goes to plan, they come out with a nice little profit, but no care for bettering the breed itself.

You are in the wrong place if you are debating that BYBs are better then registered breeders and it's against the forum rules to degrade registered breeders in any way.

Open your eyes, read up on the actual work that goes into a registered breeders litters and have a little respect.

[TheMadDogLady]

Gemini's post really got me thinking.

This, from a buyer's only perspective:

I've had the best of the best pedigreed dogs all my life, shown some with great success, but mainly just enjoyed them for the fun, love and companionship they bring.

Later in life, I'm older, more tired and somewhat poorer than I used to be and have 5 x BYB dogs. Why? Because no way on god's green earth was I inclined to spend $1.5k each on a COMPANION - 3 of these are purebreds and $350ea each is a darn site easier to find! I've had them ALL health checked, m.chipped, immunised AND desexed (or they will be ASAP once we know if they're going to retain baby teeth or not, so they will be removed under same anaesthetic).

Now, my Vet is an ex Uni lecturer, extremely well known & highly regarded in veterinary circles. I was mumbling & all apologetic about them being BYB but explained I just couldn't afford $4.5k all up for my beloved x 3 toy companions. His response pleased me immensely, him saying they were in absolutely fantastic health, super patellas, ticked all boxes, and for a breed he didn't usually like at all, these little guys were simply outstanding in temperament & health - they came from different BYB breeders. We discussed the differences between "line bred" pedigree dogs and BYB, and his words reassured me that I had made the right decision for MY circumstances. BTW, they're fed human grade raw and Ziwipeak, not bad for cheapies that the majority of buyers are said to not care about or even abuse, wtf is that all about!!!

When I sit here and think about the many, many $1k's spent (in fixing never mind buying) and anguish suffered in over 4 decades of dog ownership, all of the health issues and temperament problems can be attributed to trying to repair those finely line bred animals who all came from various top, top kennels (and I happen to know I'm not the only one who suffered issues/problems). Far, far too many had to be PTS. Conversely, the rescues, strays, bitsa's and BYB purebreds have been perfect in every respect - as have a few of the dogs bought from top level show studs, but in my case, they were the minority.

I have a girlfriend who's extremely wealthy, even bought a brand new "dog car" to save their luxury vehicles so as to cart her tribe around between their 3 properties. She's had many dogs in the 35 years we've been friends (their properties are all rural so they never have less than 5 at a time) - every single one of them were procured from the council pound (ie BYB's mongrels that have ended up there) and all lived happily & healthily to ripe old ages. Recently she went out & paid $1.3k ea for a couple of swanky pedigrees. One is already having tumours removed from his legs at 6mo.

You can all protest the BYB's for all eternity, but if I was a top stud breeding to sell, I'd be out there amongst the people doing my own survey to see what YOUR BUYERS, we consumers have experienced and think on the topic. Your efforts, regardless of how extensive they may be, are unfortunately NOT always as fruitful as you may wish, and horrible, tragic issues still arise that lead to absolute heartache and despair that never really go away, just fade in time.

The reality is that by buying a dog from ANY SOURCE is fraught with danger, risk and expense, and all types of sellers (except for the damn greedy, unprincipled pet shops) have for's and against's.

Edited April 26, 2012 by TheMadDogLady

[TheMadDogLady]

Gee's aren't some of these LOVELY people selling their pets "RED NECKS"

Half of them can not even spell.

Its all for a quick "buck"

How sad for the poor animals involved

The direct correlation between the "rednecks" and the breeds they keep/sell is not one that can be easily overlooked, and is thankfully limited to a few in general. However, one would assume even they are capable of loving and caring for their animals to the same degree as the upper echelons do or don't! A flannie shirt hardly dictates that someone is incapable of breeding or doesn't take adqueate care, anymore than a Prada bag and the ability to spell, reflects they do.

A national Vet Surgeons' survey asking where the majority of HD, LP's, entropia etc. etc. stems from and whether pedigree dogs suffer more allergies than mongrel cross-breeds, would really throw a few cats into many pigeous houses.

Edited April 26, 2012 by TheMadDogLady

[Sheridan]

Here's something out of left field. Post on Mark Zuckerbeg's Facebook page and ask him to do something about it. His little dog is all over his timeline. Until Facebook goes public, it's his site.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Sheridan

[Nekhbet]

um you do realise you can just email the DPI with the link to the page to report them or screen shots of them flouting the law or encouraging it.

[Lyss]

You can get bad eggs in registered breeders but seeing as I recently got a dog off a byb who was not microchipped, vaccinated or wormed (despite being advertised as such) had a massive worm infestation (to the extent that she was vommiting 20cm long live round worms) which masked the early warning signs of parvo which niether me or my vet caught onto until it was to late. I had her for THREE days before the vet told me it would be best to put her to sleep . Then I tried to contact the byb to tell him what had happend.. and he refused to answer my calls and messages. I think a decent human being would answer my calls but he obviously did not care about his animals. If I go through a registerd breeder I have piece of mind by way of the health checks and also most breeders are happy to sign a contract saying that if something goes horribly wrong and the vet says it was the dogs breeding I get the money back I paid for the dog. With the money we spent on my puppies vet bills I couldve brought a healthy vet checked registerd puppy. But despite all of that I watched my puppy go through excruitating pain which still makes my blood boil when I think of her breeder..

So long story short f**ck bybs and stupid ignorant people who do not get there puppies vaccinated or are to cheap to spend a measly $7 for a wormer... if she was at least wormed she might have made it.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Lyss

[TheMadDogLady]

If I go through a registerd breeder I have piece of mind by way of the health checks and also most breeders are happy to sign a contract saying that if something goes horribly wrong and the vet says it was the dogs breeding I get the money back I paid for the dog.

Such an incredibly sad story, for you, and especially the pup.

Health checks are great, everything laid out in black and white, hips rated, opthamologist reports etc. etc. However, they in no way mean that all offspring will remain clear, shit happens, and it happens far too often despite every test known to man.

Usually the last thing owners think about is getting their money back or a replacement pup once they've bonded with the unsound dog they ended up with, they simply focus on the dog and go to the ends of the earth and many $k's to fix whatever problem has arisen. I know in my case, I never bothered to go back to the breeders myself because I didn't give a rat's about the $'s lost, just the piece of my heart.

[Sheridan]

Having dogs whether pedigree or rescue/BYB/poundies, etc, is not about money, it's about ethics. I know that my pedigree dogs are ethically bred by honourable people. Were I to go down a crossbreed route, I would choose a pound dog or one from an ethical rescue. I cannot use the word ethical about BYB or puppyfarmers. The person I get a dog from is as important as the dog.

I also note wryly that reporting the FB pages doesn't seem as important in this thread as lambasting the people selling the dogs.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Sheridan

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I could tell you plenty of stories about people I've met that have bought dogs from bybs that were ill. BYBs also sell dogs as "purebred" that are not. More than once i've met people who tell me their dog is a purebred xxxx and I can assure you it definitely wasn't that particular purebred nor any other, it was a mutt but in their ignorance they've paid a huge amount of money for the puppy. It is their fault for not knowing about the breed in question but it is also downright dishonest of the byb to pass off the puppy as a purebred when it isn't.

2 weeks ago I saw a large labrador type dog in the dog park walking badly. I asked the owner and yes, they had already taken their 1 yr old dog to the vets for a diagnosis of hip dysplasia. The dog was a Labrador/Golden Retriever cross and they'd paid a huge price for the dog - a dog that is going to suffer immensely before it dies.

BYBs don't care to conduct the necessary tests before breeding. I would hate to think that a bitch with hip dysplasia was going through the agony of having puppies ...

Another lady I met struggled through the first few months of life with her Maltese cross' health issues. It turned out that the spine wasn't growing as quickly as the rest of its body - there was a name for the condition and my vet suggested she put the puppy to sleep. It was a condition that was preventable as it was hereditary.

She rang the BYB to tell them about it - she'd paid $900 for the puppy - and they didn't give a stuff, they told her she'd sighted the "goods" and bought them and that was that.

Please don't anyone try and tell me that BYBs are OK and breeding sound dogs. The stories above are the tip of the mountain.

It is a travesty that you can't get these vile people legally. I report anyone I come across not chipping dogs because it's the only thing you can do.

Edited April 27, 2012 by dogmad