Dominant Dogs

[corvus]

I would like to know what exactly people mean by a "dominant" dog? How do they behave?

[pixie_meg]

Well heres my version. And i've had a good trainer class him as dominant.

He will try to dominate other dogs, as in his physical behaviour is so that he will try to mount a dog or put his head over another dog. not aggressively but often gets him in trouble with other dogs.

With us he will test us. he considers our bed to be highly desirable and if he's on it and we want him off he'll push his luck. We tell him "off", he knows we're serious but he'll hold firm often until he is physically removed or thinks i will remove him. He wont bite us in these situations but will try to intimidate(warning behaviour, not growls, he's not a growler) us into leaving him there.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'm not into pack leader or being dominant over my dog... but this is my take.

There is the dog that all the other dogs defer to. The one that can break up any fight play or serious, just by growling a bit and running between the fighters, forcing them apart. All the dogs defer to this dog, they give him space and don't argue with him for resources. At the same time, he doesn't boss the other dogs around at all. He only asserts himself when he considers it absolutely necessary. The one at our local park is a 13 YO GSD. I've also heard this kind of dog called a "peacemaker" or "peacekeeper".

And then there is the dog that their humans call "dominant" but I would call obnoxious, untrained and feral. This is the one that has had no limits or boundaries set on its behaviour since early puppihood. It fights everybody dog and human for resources, food / friends / toys / position etc. It may be a really enthusiastic humper and doesn't stop when the "owner" tells it. It is constantly picking fights with all the other dogs at the park. And is generally no fun to be around for anybody. The owner usually blames it on it being "a dominant dog".

[Jumabaar]

I'm not into pack leader or being dominant over my dog... but this is my take.

There is the dog that all the other dogs defer to. The one that can break up any fight play or serious, just by growling a bit and running between the fighters, forcing them apart. All the dogs defer to this dog, they give him space and don't argue with him for resources. At the same time, he doesn't boss the other dogs around at all. He only asserts himself when he considers it absolutely necessary. The one at our local park is a 13 YO GSD. I've also heard this kind of dog called a "peacemaker" or "peacekeeper".

And then there is the dog that their humans call "dominant" but I would call obnoxious, untrained and feral. This is the one that has had no limits or boundaries set on its behaviour since early puppihood. It fights everybody dog and human for resources, food / friends / toys / position etc. It may be a really enthusiastic humper and doesn't stop when the "owner" tells it. It is constantly picking fights with all the other dogs at the park. And is generally no fun to be around for anybody. The owner usually blames it on it being "a dominant dog".

I like "peacekeeper". I have a bitch like this one look and she can clear the room. She has never been in a fight and rarely growls if someone is doing something she deems not allowed (we have had to work on that a little), but she is defiantly the alpha bitch of the pack, and has been since 6mths of age. All the younger dogs have pushed her boundaries, and not once has she over reacted, nor have they come close to outranking her.

[pixie_meg]

I'm not into pack leader or being dominant over my dog... but this is my take.

There is the dog that all the other dogs defer to. The one that can break up any fight play or serious, just by growling a bit and running between the fighters, forcing them apart. All the dogs defer to this dog, they give him space and don't argue with him for resources. At the same time, he doesn't boss the other dogs around at all. He only asserts himself when he considers it absolutely necessary. The one at our local park is a 13 YO GSD. I've also heard this kind of dog called a "peacemaker" or "peacekeeper".

And then there is the dog that their humans call "dominant" but I would call obnoxious, untrained and feral. This is the one that has had no limits or boundaries set on its behaviour since early puppihood. It fights everybody dog and human for resources, food / friends / toys / position etc. It may be a really enthusiastic humper and doesn't stop when the "owner" tells it. It is constantly picking fights with all the other dogs at the park. And is generally no fun to be around for anybody. The owner usually blames it on it being "a dominant dog".

See i see the first as being the alpha or pack leader. i agree they are a peacekeeper but not really a 'dominant' personality. The 'dominant' dog is usually not a pack leader.

I personally think you'll have some submissive personalities and some dominant personalities and varying degrees in a litter. I think dominance isn't created through lack of training but is more likely made much worse through lack of training and poor owner responsibility. I don't have much experience but i see dominant nature as something you handle not necessarily cure but would be interested to know others views on handling the dominant nature.

[nightgrace6]

A bit OT but I have a friends bulldog called Girl that sits up on chairs like humans and when the other pups around him (other friends dogs) carry on and start to get a little snarly she gets off the chair pushes them apart and goes and sits back on her chair.. it is hilarious behavior, she doesn't so much as even open her mouth and they all obey her..

My pup may be classed as dominant, she definitely knows I am her superior but with my partner (who lives in the same house) she will nip and trip him over and try and sit ABOVE his head.. it may be because I am the one training her although he is both rewarding and assertive when need be. Are dogs born this way? she is only 10 weeks old! I have a qualified trainer/behaviorist coming to my home this week to assess..

I will be interested in what is said in this topic..

[Fleuri]

I'm not into pack leader or being dominant over my dog... but this is my take.

There is the dog that all the other dogs defer to. The one that can break up any fight play or serious, just by growling a bit and running between the fighters, forcing them apart. All the dogs defer to this dog, they give him space and don't argue with him for resources. At the same time, he doesn't boss the other dogs around at all. He only asserts himself when he considers it absolutely necessary. The one at our local park is a 13 YO GSD. I've also heard this kind of dog called a "peacemaker" or "peacekeeper".

And then there is the dog that their humans call "dominant" but I would call obnoxious, untrained and feral. This is the one that has had no limits or boundaries set on its behaviour since early puppihood. It fights everybody dog and human for resources, food / friends / toys / position etc. It may be a really enthusiastic humper and doesn't stop when the "owner" tells it. It is constantly picking fights with all the other dogs at the park. And is generally no fun to be around for anybody. The owner usually blames it on it being "a dominant dog".

See i see the first as being the alpha or pack leader. i agree they are a peacekeeper but not really a 'dominant' personality. The 'dominant' dog is usually not a pack leader.

I personally think you'll have some submissive personalities and some dominant personalities and varying degrees in a litter. I think dominance isn't created through lack of training but is more likely made much worse through lack of training and poor owner responsibility. I don't have much experience but i see dominant nature as something you handle not necessarily cure but would be interested to know others views on handling the dominant nature.

I don't have alot of experience either but I have to agree with this comment. I think training can help control a dominant dog but will not stop them from testing boundaries now and again or even often. I also think that certian personality types (owners) are better suited for these types of dogs.

[Sheridan]

Grumpy can get Mini off the couch by walking up to me sitting on one end of the couch and turning his head to look at Mini sitting on the other end. She'll get off immediately and he'll get up.

[Greytmate]

It means different things in different contexts for me. I don't use it as an official label, but I do use the term.

It can be used to describe the dog in control, or the dog trying to maintain control, or the dog trying to take control.

[Alyosha]

See Meg, I've had people tell me dogs are being dominant when they rest their heads on each other, but I've known plenty of sighthounds, and have never seen it that way at all. I've seen it as something they do out of familiarity, pack bonding, like leaning against people or each other. They all do it, regardless of their pack position.

Dominant at our place, is our adult male who can lie with his food bowl, and eat at his leisure. If the others finish first (which they often do, he's a very relaxed eater) they won't come within a certain radius of him, they will lie down quietly. You can see they want his food, but there is an invisible boundary. If he gets up from his bowl, they will watch until he walks away - and only approach his foodbowl after he has cocked his leg - which seems to be a sure sign he has no further interest in his food. Only then will they eat what he has left. He has quiet and unquestioned authority over the other dogs, just as I do over him. He will lie next to me while I eat and very deliberately look away from my food, and not make physical contact with me until I have finished eating and initiated it. He just does that, without being trained to it.

That to me is true dominance. Behaviours labelled as dominance, such as challenging of authority behaviours, I see as either juvenile/adolescent learning behaviours, or in adults, insecurities.

edit - crap spelling!!

Edited March 14, 2011 by Alyosha

[Clyde]

I think the term 'dominant' is overused. A lot of so called dominant dogs are just bossy, or like to stir trouble, or are possessive about desirable things. I don't believe a lot of behaviours people often have trouble with here on the forums is truly dominant. In the time I did rescue I believe out of so many dogs in care over time (about 100?) that only one was truly dominant and he genuinely scared the shit out of me.

Some people might think my Stafford is dominant as she always growls at other dogs when meeting, she is also fence aggressive but she's really very soft. I've had people call my Shih Tzu dominant, but really she's just a spoilt little princess who bitches when she doesn't get what she wants and likes growling and yapping at the others to let them know she 'aint happy.

[newfsie]

I love the way this was written. I have copied it. no use re-writing

"Dominance is not aggression. Dominance is a desire to run things. The dominant dog wants to have everything his (or her) way. Aggression is the desire or intent to cause harm. The aggressive dog intends to hurt or damage another living being. Sometimes a dog may exhibit both dominance and aggression. Some may only show one of these attitudes. With any dog that has shown aggression be careful. If you are unsure of yourself, or the dog, please get help from someone with experience. Just like people, dominant dogs who are also aggressive like getting their own way and may resent efforts to control them.

Dominant behavior in dogs is the natural result of their having no concept of equality. Every member of their social world is seen as being either higher or lower in rank than they are. This social world includes their immediate family (people, other dogs, cats, etc.) and any other dogs they meet casually. The more dominant a dog is by nature, the harder it will try for a high rank.

Dominance appears to have a strong genetic factor. A puppy can be identified as being dominant at as young as two weeks old. A dominant dog is dominant forever. There are degrees of dominance, from not at all (submissive) to extremely dominant. How dominant a dog is may be influenced by its environment or "how it is raised."...........Copied

"Dominant Dogs, Recognition By Catherine Waters "

I have one dog who always splits any dogs or people in disagreement, she runs through or tries to redirect. She is very passive and is definitly not dominant, we call Katy our Peacemaker. She does it at home at the kennel Club and most dogs accept it from her Peacefully

[jacqui835]

Well heres my version. And i've had a good trainer class him as dominant.

He will try to dominate other dogs, as in his physical behaviour is so that he will try to mount a dog or put his head over another dog. not aggressively but often gets him in trouble with other dogs.

With us he will test us. he considers our bed to be highly desirable and if he's on it and we want him off he'll push his luck. We tell him "off", he knows we're serious but he'll hold firm often until he is physically removed or thinks i will remove him. He wont bite us in these situations but will try to intimidate(warning behaviour, not growls, he's not a growler) us into leaving him there.

My dog has been described as a good typical dominant doberman by our old training club and he is similar to this. He refuses to submit to other dogs - I have never ever seen him on his back, put his head down or submit in anyway. Only difference is that he tends to evade fights even if it's his behaviour that led to the start of it (he wasn't always like this, but we really worked with him when he was a teenager). He will just walk away, or spin around continually so they can't get behind him, trying to stare them down. He is taller than almost every other dog, and he uses this. He has only ever been in 2 fights, despite the fact that I visit dog parks several times a week - both times were with bully type breeds who had attacked other dogs before, but I know that had he submitted instead of acting like a cocky idiot, he would not have been attacked. He nearly lost an eye once as a result.

Only thing is he's not dominant over me. He is dominant over strangers though he has never been aggressive towards humans. Just if I'm not around, he has been known to push them around a little, steal their food, and doesn't listen to anything they say. To this day, although he loves my partner, if he issues him a command, he will almost always look to me first and see if he can't get a reprieve. I always make sure I support my partner's orders. He will listen to my partner even if I do nothing, but typically, my partner has to actually get up and go over to him - or catch him first, and then the dog will sometimes try and turn it into a half challenge/half game - get down on his front legs and bark at him kinda thing.

This is what I expected though getting a doberman. They might be dominant, but they're also really needy and sensitive towards their chosen person/people, so that gives you a lot more control. There's absolutely no way I'd take a dominant, independent type breed like an Alaskan Malamute or something.

[jacqui835]

I love the way this was written. I have copied it. no use re-writing

"Dominance is not aggression. Dominance is a desire to run things. The dominant dog wants to have everything his (or her) way. Aggression is the desire or intent to cause harm. The aggressive dog intends to hurt or damage another living being. Sometimes a dog may exhibit both dominance and aggression. Some may only show one of these attitudes. With any dog that has shown aggression be careful. If you are unsure of yourself, or the dog, please get help from someone with experience. Just like people, dominant dogs who are also aggressive like getting their own way and may resent efforts to control them.

Dominant behavior in dogs is the natural result of their having no concept of equality. Every member of their social world is seen as being either higher or lower in rank than they are. This social world includes their immediate family (people, other dogs, cats, etc.) and any other dogs they meet casually. The more dominant a dog is by nature, the harder it will try for a high rank.

Dominance appears to have a strong genetic factor. A puppy can be identified as being dominant at as young as two weeks old. A dominant dog is dominant forever. There are degrees of dominance, from not at all (submissive) to extremely dominant. How dominant a dog is may be influenced by its environment or "how it is raised."...........Copied

"Dominant Dogs, Recognition By Catherine Waters "

I have one dog who always splits any dogs or people in disagreement, she runs through or tries to redirect. She is very passive and is definitly not dominant, we call Katy our Peacemaker. She does it at home at the kennel Club and most dogs accept it from her Peacefully

Very informative post, makes perfect sense to me. My dog I guess is fairly dominant as he has a strong desire to be higher in rank and exudes a sense of self-entitlement and confidence. He doesn't however, appear to have any desire to be aggressive or cause injury. He was indeed dominant from when we first got him - 8 weeks old.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jacqui835

[Jeff Jones]

I think the term 'dominant' is overused. A lot of so called dominant dogs are just bossy, or like to stir trouble, or are possessive about desirable things. I don't believe a lot of behaviours people often have trouble with here on the forums is truly dominant. In the time I did rescue I believe out of so many dogs in care over time (about 100?) that only one was truly dominant and he genuinely scared the shit out of me.

Some people might think my Stafford is dominant as she always growls at other dogs when meeting, she is also fence aggressive but she's really very soft. I've had people call my Shih Tzu dominant, but really she's just a spoilt little princess who bitches when she doesn't get what she wants and likes growling and yapping at the others to let them know she 'aint happy.

You definitely know when you come across a truly dominant dog. I have been around and owned working dogs for many years yet I have not owned many dogs that I would label as being "truly dominant" These dogs do not display outward aggression or try to dominate every person or dog they come in to contact with...

Edited March 14, 2011 by Jeff Jones

[corvus]

Interesting thoughts, everyone.

Before I got my Lappie I wanted an Akita. I heard they were a dominant breed and you couldn't ever relax the rules for them. I wasn't sure if I could cope with this. I met a few and they struck me as very self-contained and confident. This didn't really match my idea of dominance.

Years later, I find myself with a little dog that is very proactive, opportunistic, and impulsive. He is very reward-oriented and very switched on. Nothing escapes his scrutiny and everything is experimented with in case he can exploit it. Rules generally do not get relaxed for him as he certainly does take advantage of it. We have learnt to be mindful of what he is doing and give him lots of direction.

This dog is not, IMO, dominant. Ultimately, he does what is rewarding, and he's very good at getting the most out of everything in his environment, including people and other dogs. I really love his temperament. He's a handful and has changed the way I train and manage my dogs, but he is also just so fun in so many ways. I love that he keeps me on my toes and thinking several steps ahead. His enthusiasm is such that you have to think several steps ahead to have any hope of living in harmony with him. But I think that maybe some would call him dominant. One day, I'm going to want another dog like him. I want to know what to ask for.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Dominance is not aggression. Dominance is a desire to run things. The dominant dog wants to have everything his (or her) way.

If that's right - every dog I've met including mine is dominant.

Mine has been called an "omega" dog. She crawls into every greeting and rolls over and even pees sometimes, seems very submissive. Except when she's hunting in the hedge and she's in it for herself and I have to go get her (or hide and freak her out).

She will quite happily take over leadership in any group of dogs or people or mix if nobody else steps up. She doesn't challenge though if some other dog says they want the whatever, she's very happy to hand it over. Although sometimes she insists on a game of chase-me first.

And she has displayed some peacemaker behaviours as she matures. Is fascinating to watch. And is yet another reason why I have a hard time with the conventional definitions of "dominance".

[JoeK]

A dominant dog from my experience with the working Shepherd, is like an outlaw dog, he like to do things his way when he wants and when you try to dominate him to do want you want, he argue and voice he has disaproval. Hes confident cocky dog, high tail, tall neck in the body language, good nerve no scared but he love himself and thinks to himself he is the best and the world is for hes benifit.

He has attitude like smarty pants, yes, you want me to do something, make me he thinks becuase I am the boss, and he bluff with a growl and warn you mess with me and I bite you, like that. The dominant dog is not snappy aggressive, if things goes his way, hes good dog no worries, if you want him to go to the crate and he doesnt want to go and you try and push him in the crate, he growl and tell you he getting pissed off and he may have to bite you. The Dominant dog has a wide window from when he first growl to when he may bite and he winds up like a lion before he bite, sometimes he air snap, not defense aggressive different thing.

You train the dominant dog with the brain not the boot and outsmart their thinking and never back away from intimidation. They are bit of pain too dominant in the training because they challenge you too often, little bit just confident dominance is good, much dominance is not helpful to the training, slows down the progress, best is average dominance in the dog, too much is not useful trait for the training.

Joe

[JoeK]

Dominance is not aggression. Dominance is a desire to run things. The dominant dog wants to have everything his (or her) way.

If that's right - every dog I've met including mine is dominant.

Mine has been called an "omega" dog. She crawls into every greeting and rolls over and even pees sometimes, seems very submissive. Except when she's hunting in the hedge and she's in it for herself and I have to go get her (or hide and freak her out).

She will quite happily take over leadership in any group of dogs or people or mix if nobody else steps up. She doesn't challenge though if some other dog says they want the whatever, she's very happy to hand it over. Although sometimes she insists on a game of chase-me first.

And she has displayed some peacemaker behaviours as she matures. Is fascinating to watch. And is yet another reason why I have a hard time with the conventional definitions of "dominance".

Mrs Rusty, my apology that your dog is not dominant, is disobedients you describe. Dominant in the true meaning not often come in the female dog, very rare and usually male trait yes. Dominant dog does not greet people becuase he think hes too good and he may have competition to submit, he don't like submit so he is aloof always. If the dog she roll over and pee is dead opposite of dominance in the trait. Out going excitment is not dominance in the trait, is different thing.

Joe

[Jeff Jones]

A dominant dog from my experience with the working Shepherd, is like an outlaw dog, he like to do things his way when he wants and when you try to dominate him to do want you want, he argue and voice he has disaproval. Hes confident cocky dog, high tail, tall neck in the body language, good nerve no scared but he love himself and thinks to himself he is the best and the world is for hes benifit.

He has attitude like smarty pants, yes, you want me to do something, make me he thinks becuase I am the boss, and he bluff with a growl and warn you mess with me and I bite you, like that. The dominant dog is not snappy aggressive, if things goes his way, hes good dog no worries, if you want him to go to the crate and he doesnt want to go and you try and push him in the crate, he growl and tell you he getting pissed off and he may have to bite you. The Dominant dog has a wide window from when he first growl to when he may bite and he winds up like a lion before he bite, sometimes he air snap, not defense aggressive different thing.

You train the dominant dog with the brain not the boot and outsmart their thinking and never back away from intimidation. They are bit of pain too dominant in the training because they challenge you too often, little bit just confident dominance is good, much dominance is not helpful to the training, slows down the progress, best is average dominance in the dog, too much is not useful trait for the training.

Joe

I agree with most of you're post JoeK. The only thing is you state the dominant dogs you have dealt with have a wide window when they first growl to when they may bite and air snapping. I have not found any of the dogs I would classify as dominant to complete air snapping and they are quick to engage. This does not mean they are unpredictable, it is fairly easy to predict when a dominant dog is going to engage.

I will agree with you're comment on training dominant dogs. If you are silly enough to fight dominance with dominance you better be prepared to be seriously hurt in the process...