Tigey Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hi - wasnt sure whether to post here or nutrition, but anyway. I have 13 puppies who have reached 3 weeks old today. Mum has had enough of them already and barely tolerates even 1 pup on her. We tried blending puppy biscuits and mixed it with puppy formula and puppy tinned food but they just sucked the milk out. They will however eat the tinned food & milk until they fall asleep with their heads still in the bowl. She recently fainted from exhaustion and had a tummy bug with a fever, she is having a very hard time. Just wondering when is a good time to start feeding them hydrated biscuits as well as the tinned food and when to stop giving them to mum altogether? We have been bottle feeding them all twice a day since birth but when it's time to go on mum they never get enough - we put 4-5 on at a time over about 3 hours. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 You can start weaning the pups now. Get rid of the tin food. Buy good human grade mince and mix with milk, make a pink slushie. Soak the dry longer so the liquid is absorbed. Don't give them straight cows milk unless well diluted. Make sure they are pooing and weeing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) thanks, had a feeling it was about time. hubby works next to a vet and he's popped in there today to see what they say too. the tinned food is nutro, apparently one of the best and specifically designed for younger puppies and to mix with puppy formula. its 75% water i read in other posts in this forum raw wasnt good for young pups? or is that just straight raw. anyways we have another 2kg of di-vetilact to keep us going.. we used so much we had to source from 3 different vets lol. i dont think we'll use cow milk at all though we soaked the dry and then blended it after and added even more formula but they must have been too young and yep, weeing a lot, pooing a lot. *edit: you're right about the tinned food by the way Edited March 14, 2011 by Tigey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I weaned mine on goats milk with kibble soaked in it with mince also.. the goats milk i used was the ones u give babies (human) in the tin (powder) n make it up.. I also gave advance wet food on the odd days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Mum gets Palastart - powdered goats milk to help her milk supply - I suppliment the pups with a chicken mince gruell very wet which they suck up. When they start lapping (about 3-5 days) I add soaked Nutro puppy - soaked in Palastart. - raised a litter of 12 mum had dropped the bundle when the pups were about 18 days old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 yep we supplement mum with the puppy formula too with eggs and yoghurt as well, she loves it. cool thx for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 thanks, had a feeling it was about time. hubby works next to a vet and he's popped in there today to see what they say too.the tinned food is nutro, apparently one of the best and specifically designed for younger puppies and to mix with puppy formula. its 75% water i read in other posts in this forum raw wasnt good for young pups? or is that just straight raw. anyways we have another 2kg of di-vetilact to keep us going.. we used so much we had to source from 3 different vets lol. i dont think we'll use cow milk at all though we soaked the dry and then blended it after and added even more formula but they must have been too young and yep, weeing a lot, pooing a lot. *edit: you're right about the tinned food by the way If you are using di-vetelact get a 10kg bucket of it, rather than the tins that will cost you a fortune. I wean onto raw mince mixed with a little warm water and after a few days add well soaked puppy kibble. Then give a drink of di-vetelact after or between feeds as well. With one litter of 8 where the mum had hardly any milk, we weaned them straight onto lapping di-vetelact at 2 weeks and ended up using about 12kgs of it by the time they were 8 weeks old. Some breeders cut out milk supplementation after a few weeks but I prefer to keep mine on it right through and always give it to my adults as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 yep we've gone through kilos and kilos of it. i'll see if we can source a 10kg tin, biggest we've been getting is 2kg for $50 might see if they'll eat the soaked kibble without blending it, i think my blender is about to die. it feels like it took ages for them to learn how to lap the milk rather than choking on it. this morning they dove into the bowls of milk/kibble and took me half an hour to towel wash/dry them all (and now im late for work) also how long does it take for mum to dry out if no puppies are on her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 yep we've gone through kilos and kilos of it. i'll see if we can source a 10kg tin, biggest we've been getting is 2kg for $50 might see if they'll eat the soaked kibble without blending it, i think my blender is about to die. it feels like it took ages for them to learn how to lap the milk rather than choking on it. this morning they dove into the bowls of milk/kibble and took me half an hour to towel wash/dry them all (and now im late for work) also how long does it take for mum to dry out if no puppies are on her? I would still let them suckle mum for comfort and they need to be with her to learn to be dogs. so long as they are getting plenty to eat and drink they wont suck on her too long. When she has no more milk she will stop them feedign herself. Mine usually still suckle until about 7 and let the bitch decide when she ghas ahd enough. The milk usually dries up within a week. What breed are they ? My BCs never need help learning to lap or eat and rarely get any on them, they just hoe into the food. The dry food should soak down to mush about 10 min after adding hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 they are mastiff/rottweiler/bullmastiff. i posted in the breeder forums about 4 weeks ago for advice. i think they were slurping rather than lapping at 2 weeks. but boy do they make a mess they're so eager, they get covered in it. they climb in the bowl and then climb over each other, making it worse. thats why i hope they'll munch on the hydrated kibble. we have them in a puppy pen in the lounge during the day and a puppy pen in the bedroom at night to contain the mess. so maybe better to let them roam free in the lounge so they have better access to mum? i give batches of 4-5 during the day to mum for about 30 mins at a time. we were planning to put the 2 pens together and keep them on the back patio shaded by tarp after that so they could go to the toilet on the grass. that's how our mastiff was raised and it was a breeze toilet training him when we took him home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) http://leerburg.com/articles.htm#breed plenty of free information from a long term breeder here. You better save up those pups are going to be expensive to worm and vaccinate. If you're finding a pup or two are hard to feed then cull down the numbers now. Personally I would pull them off mum totally and let her dry up if she's that sick. we were planning to put the 2 pens together and keep them on the back patio shaded by tarp after that so they could go to the toilet on the grass. that's how our mastiff was raised and it was a breeze toilet training him when we took him home It's too cold for pups to be out all the time at this time of the year. They dont do too well at staying warm even bunched up together especially at night. Let them out when its warm AND if you have no other dogs about (your male better be vaccinated) but at night time, no they were raised indoor and nowhere near used to it. Have you wormed them yet? ETA yup puppies are stinky, messy piglets. It's part of breeding to expect that big a mess. You still have another 5 weeks of this before you can let them go too ... they should not be sold off until at least 8 weeks of age Edited March 17, 2011 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 in the end i wasnt comfortable with them being outside at this age so we are bringing them inside at night.. and of course we wouldnt put them outside if it was too cold. i should mention that when our mastiff was a puppy and being kept outside it was an incredibly hot summer. goats milk... is this powdered or the stuff that comes in the bottle fresh just from coles etc? if we keep feeding them di-vetilact we'll go broke with the amount they're eating now it seemed mum just had some sort of 12 hr bug, she was fine after the first dose of antibiotics i just wanted to make sure we werent doing something wrong with them getting covered in food, but if thats standard then okay we're worming them on saturday when my husband goes back to work to get the worming meds. mum was wormed a few weeks back we're incredibly lucky - my husband works at a pet supply store and a friend works at vetwest nextdoor and we get discounted vet bills. we get 20kg bags of puppy kibble for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Buy yourself some of those round cake tins with the bit in the middle (to make cakes with a hole) feed 3/4 pups from each one. NO walking thru food /fighting/mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 in the end i wasnt comfortable with them being outside at this age so we are bringing them inside at night.. and of course we wouldnt put them outside if it was too cold. i should mention that when our mastiff was a puppy and being kept outside it was an incredibly hot summer. goats milk... is this powdered or the stuff that comes in the bottle fresh just from coles etc? if we keep feeding them di-vetilact we'll go broke with the amount they're eating now it seemed mum just had some sort of 12 hr bug, she was fine after the first dose of antibiotics i just wanted to make sure we werent doing something wrong with them getting covered in food, but if thats standard then okay we're worming them on saturday when my husband goes back to work to get the worming meds. mum was wormed a few weeks back we're incredibly lucky - my husband works at a pet supply store and a friend works at vetwest nextdoor and we get discounted vet bills. we get 20kg bags of puppy kibble for free Worming fortnightly, food, milk, vaccinations and microchipping could cost you at least $300-$400 per puppy by the time they are 8 weeks old. I hope you planned your budget for this. Raising large breed puppies is very expensive as they eat a lot and worming is based on weight. Also if the mum is still feeding them she still needs at least 3-4 times her normal amount of food for a few more weeks. I hope you have also worked out what you are going to do with any that you don't find homes for straight away. Large puppies can really send you broke. I remember a registered breeder with a large rare breed many years ago that sold his car to get the money to raise a litter, thinking he would make a big profit. Six months later he still had his original 3 large dogs and 8 of the litter of 12 that he couldn't find homes for. He was out of pocket thousands, was taking a second job to pay his mounting debts and seriously considering euthanasing some of the puppies that had cost him so much to raise. The demand for really large crossbreeds is even less. When I worked for a shelter we would have been lucky to place one in 6 months. Most were simply put down the day they came in because no one wanted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Worming fortnightly, food, milk, vaccinations and microchipping could cost you at least $300-$400 per puppy by the time they are 8 weeks old. I hope you planned your budget for this. Raising large breed puppies is very expensive as they eat a lot and worming is based on weight. Also if the mum is still feeding them she still needs at least 3-4 times her normal amount of food for a few more weeks. I hope you have also worked out what you are going to do with any that you don't find homes for straight away. Large puppies can really send you broke. I remember a registered breeder with a large rare breed many years ago that sold his car to get the money to raise a litter, thinking he would make a big profit. Six months later he still had his original 3 large dogs and 8 of the litter of 12 that he couldn't find homes for. He was out of pocket thousands, was taking a second job to pay his mounting debts and seriously considering euthanasing some of the puppies that had cost him so much to raise. The demand for really large crossbreeds is even less. When I worked for a shelter we would have been lucky to place one in 6 months. Most were simply put down the day they came in because no one wanted them. i posted in here with questions about feeding and nutrition. i was asking a question about goat's milk. i know they need to be wormed, i know they need food, i know they need vaccinations, i know a litter of puppies costs money, i know the mother needs extra food. i care a ridiculous amount for these puppies. i'm going to cry my eyes out every time one leaves. however, our plan of using divetliact until they're completely on kibble is too expensive and a lot of people have said they used goat's milk anyway. so before i give something to my puppies i source as much information as i can. is it fresh? is it powdered? is it from the supermarket or pharmacy? is it sold specifically for babies and toddlers in a formula or is it plain milk? can they drink it in the same way as divetilact? and thank you persephone, that is a neat idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Tigey the search function on DOL brings up a myriad of past threads that will help you answer many questions you might have. I have been doing this the last few days as I research weaning/supplementing etc (I hopefully have a bitch due in May). Little tidbits like persephone's idea of the cake tins for feeding are gold and I am so grateful to long term breeders for sharing their knowledge free of charge to newbies like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 yep from what i can see goats milk is just goats milk so i'll give that a go when i picked up a tin of divetilact yesterday the vet nurse who breeds labs was chatting to me about the messy feeding.. she suggested baking dishes, but that isnt really working they are silly little things. they stand there and cry for my attention because they forget that there's a huge dish of milk there. ive even seen a few of the puppies pushing their paws in and out of the kibble mush massaging it like mum's teat, trying to get the milk out that it was soaked in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 considering the amount of goats milk you will need for them I wouldnt see it working out any cheaper then Divetelact. It is available fresh or powdered, powdered is probably easier, sometimes supermarkets sell it fresh too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 well we can only get a 900g tin of divetilact. with my husband's staff discount we could get it for $30 (though the orders arent coming in till tuesday so till then its $45 a tin and it lasts 2 days max) whereas 1L of longlife goat's milk is $5 from the supermarket. according to the instructions on divetilact solution B is 200g per L, so that's 4.5 litres for $45 of divetilact. or ~$19 for 4.5L of long life goat's milk or ~$16 for 4.5L of fresh goat's milk. i am tired, so i could be wrong. maybe if we could buy the divetilact in bulk, but we cant. they are eating the kibble, but if i put down a bowl of hydrated kibble and a bowl of milk, they'll go to the bowl of milk. im sure the situation would be different in a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 did you read the Leerburg articles? He has puppy recipes in there too The supplier who has the small tins will have the bulk packs, the vets will have no probs getting them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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