RottnBullies Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Such a vain world we live In, where If It ain't perfect It must go! Glad there are still some people who value life when things just ain't the norm I salute them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 We are not discussing a dog that is "not perfect". We're discussing a semi crippled, totally dependant dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Rott'nBullies.. so you are happy for the pups born blind and deaf, the ones with cleft palate, or the ones with badly malformed limbs to be kept alive,and as pets,at any cost ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMAK Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 The carers are obviously very happy to look after this dog, so i really don't see the problem in this dog being kept alive. Pop-Eye has quailty of life to me and looks happy to be in a wheel chair. This dog isn't aggressive, easy to control he is just as worthy as a fully developed and healthy rescue dog. Some people like unique, so best of luck to Pop eye! With every one's opinions in which we are intiltled too i would like to end this bitter arguement as we cannot change his out come but just wish him the best of luck where ever he may end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The carers are obviously very happy to look after this dog, so i really don't see the problem in this dog being kept alive.Pop-Eye has quailty of life to me and looks happy to be in a wheel chair. This dog isn't aggressive, easy to control he is just as worthy as a fully developed and healthy rescue dog. Some people like unique, so best of luck to Pop eye! With every one's opinions in which we are intiltled too i would like to end this bitter arguement as we cannot change his out come but just wish him the best of luck where ever he may end up. Yep, just take one of his wheels off..... I'm sorry, the devil made me do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yep, just take one of his wheels off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'm sorry, but these are very short videos. This is a dog with a massive spinal problem being encouraged to pull a contraption around at speed, putting considerable additional pressure on that spine. He may be happy. But is he happy that evening? Or is he hurting? He may love running when there's other dogs there, but when his adrenaline surge goes down how is he really feeling? These sort of injuries and disabilities are linked to chronic pain and suffering, and further deformities in many humans who live with them. I hope this poor dog isn't feeling or going through that, and if he is, I hope it's not being overlooked for the sake of a happy 10 minute run around the park and a warm fuzzy feeling for a couple of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Being compassionate can mean being compassionate towards the people who are wanting to adopt a rescue dog and not emotionally manipulating them or encouraging them to adopt through pity. Being loving can mean recognising when an animal is so faulty that it will not lead a pain-free life, and will be subject to being attached to a prosthetic which could endanger it and which is likely to cause pressure sores. Being loving and compassionate sometimes means being brave or selfless enough not to put a dog like this on the market. Putting one's own personal distress aside so as to not cause long-term distress to other people or animals. Passing on a problem dog to somebody else is always the easy option compared to keeping a problem dog or having it euthanised. Not much that is loving about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. Yes, the dog looks happy because it cannot feel its legs that it's dragging around behind it. Even if catches one of its legs on an object and rips it in half, it would still be pulling itself along with a big grin because it wouldn't be able to feel it. We recently dealt with a dog who lost feeling in one of its forearms after taking the impact of a car on its shoulder, severing the nerves. The owners didn't crate confine it as told, to see if there was any chance the feeling would come back. 14 days later it was returned to have the leg amputated and it was very clear the dog wasn't confined. The paw had been left to drag along the ground and had been worn down so bad the paw was literally in half, with the toes completely gone. All the bones were exposed and the flesh rotting. The dog was becoming unwell from septicemia but apart from that, was completely happy because it couldn't feel its leg and therefore felt no pain. I can't help but think this is the sort of life this dog will face. It will need to be confined except for when its in its wheelchair. It will leak urine and faeces if not dealt with in time and possibly have constipation issues. Yes, I think the people currently caring for it are obviously very caring, compassionate people, but I have to ask how they can be sure the people who will adopt the pup are going to put the same amount of time and care into it as them? This will be a dog who will need 24/7/365 care and I just don't know how someone could adopt it out knowing that they can't be 100% the new owners will be able to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I have to agree with others who have said they would not keep a puppy like this alive. I'm making assumptions in saying this - the dog is not pain free. The dog is not able to function normally (needs to be toiletted). IFF that is the case then I would be giving the poor little thing its wings. We did just that with a young BC who the vets told us would be on pain management for the remainder of his life after an op to correct severe OCD. I would do it again if faced with the same decision. So, no, I don't find this inspirational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'm sorry, the devil made me do it. To qualify my previously tasteless comment, my heart breaks to see these dogs and gallows humour can be a coping mechanism. I can't imagine what the rest of Popeye's life is like. I worry about pressure areas, I worry about kidney function if he isn't evacuated properly. Even if he is totally unfeeling in the crippled limbs, what sort of unnatural strain is there on his overworked front? If he can't feel then he can't guard himself against the damage his form of movement causes. To maintain him in any sort of safety and health would require 24 hour vigilance to his needs. And a degree in vet science would help as well. If all we saw in the videos was a totally accurate summation of his life, good on him. But I fear there is a fair amount of misery that will never get the same coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) I'm another who would worry about this dog's ongoing quality of life, the misery that won't make the video clips, the impact on it's body of how it is having to live, the inevitable pain, the need for manual assistance in toileting, the huge demands on a new owner and how it's all going to compound over time. If the current owners had committed to the dog for the length of its life and had done so without the cameras, I'd be less worried. But as it is - 'conspicuous compassion' is a good term for it, and no, not inspirational at all. Edited March 14, 2011 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartok Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I have emailed Popeye's foster mum in california And asked her to let me know about his health etc. She mainly saves dogs with disabilities Will post if she replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possum86 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 At the end of the day this daog is probably in pain and suffering and is up for sale. What happens when these people or the people who buy it get sick of it and the novelty has worn off. Or they lose their job and can't afford to care for a severely disabled dog any more? What is wrong with some people? This is why I don't work as a small animal vet nurse any more. Because the general human population are a bunch of selfish idiots who can't see the big picture and do the humane thing. This dog IS NOT leading a full happy life, I can guarantee it. Shameful and disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) If this paralysis was borne of an accident and was a loved pet I guess it is up to the owner what is "Best" for their loved pet. They would know what quality of life their dog deserves. This is because they have relationship. This pup was fostered ad put up for sale: how does one decide to raise a dog only to burden it with re homing to people who may know nothing of what the dog has been through and needs? To me it is OTT. I fear the unique disability is the attraction here, not value of life. Edited March 15, 2011 by redangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) I fear the unique disability is the attraction here, not value of life. Yes, what Redangel said How many identical but healthy pups die in pounds every week ? The saviour mentality is doing this poor pup no favours. As Stormy said, there will be health costs, and looking at his poor rear and limbs, it will be sooner rather than later. urinary catheters and expressed bladders do not last forever, scar tissue forms, or urninary crystals, and surgery to flush and keep open his urethra and meds for the inevitable infections will be a future. Then there is the pressue sores and injury to the useless limbs It is so very sad, but this pup should have been given his wings, there are disabilities in dogs that don't prevent them having quality of life, but this is purely for the self worth of the 'rescuer' and I mean that in the counselling sense of the word - it is a known trait that gives the person their validation. fifi Edited March 15, 2011 by fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 It was a foster dog that they helped. that is like putting a dog down because it is deaf! i think that is cruel! sorry but i don't see this as terrible, as the dog looks happy. if the dog was in any pain then yes i would consider this video wrong. i can understand where it could be seen as cruel but that dog doesn't show any signs that he is in pain. maybe i should have posted the wheel chair video with this one as i saw both before posting this. my personal opinion, he is being well looked after and is loved. Yes, Catherine he is loved and is being looked after in the short term, but a better love for this young dog would be the type of love that is called "tough love". It is the love given when a human considers the LONG TERM damage being done to the animal and they make the tough decision to save the puppy from a future of suffering. Many people think it is noble to do the very best they can for deformed young animals, and these days they are encouraged in this endeavour by some vets and others. Trolleys are made, special harnesses developed, and people are taught how to help a dog express its faeces through musculature that is not working properly. What happens if somebody forgets to do it each day? Bladder infections, bowel blockages. More pain and suffering for the animal. Laxatives are often given on a regular basis and these have the net effect of stuffing up the animal's system in other ways. Strong anti-inflammatory medications that were designed to be given to old dogs who are becoming crippled with arthritis with the onset of old age, are often given to young animals who have joints and that are not working properly and are causing pain. These medications eat through the gut and other internal organs of dogs who are on them from a young age. I could go on, but I hope you get my drift. Ethical vets and owners do not keep deformed dogs alive. They have to silence their emotions and say goodbye early. Not easy, but it is the better option. Because a young crippled dog is looking happy now, with all the care lavished on it, does not mean that the right thing is being done for the dog, if the dog's future is really being taken into account. The same happy young dog does not have a very good future at all, because of all the consequential complications ahead. Do we have the right to lead him down that path? I don't believe we do. It might give the carers a warm and fuzzy feeling now, but the longer term welfare interest of the dog is not being served at all. Birds toss deformed young out of the nest, and they do this in the best long term interests of the deformed young. They know that that the baby does not have a future. I once took home one of these fledglings on the ground - a lorikeet with no tail. A bird who could never fly. Stumpy lived with us in a cage for about a year and then developed pneumonia and died quickly. He had the best I could give him but it was not enough. He never had a future and I could not give him that. Had I not found him on the ground, he would have been another critter's dinner very soon so I felt some personal satisfaction, but even with good care, he lived only a fraction of the time that a normal parrot lives. He was not meant to live - I probably would have been better spending my time tending to an injured bird to whom I COULD have given a better future. Cats eat their deformed kittens. Bitches will sometimes eat deformed pups, or not feed them and demand that the owner remove them from the litter box. They KNOW that these babies do not have a proper future and they take care of the matter, right there and then. As humans and animal carers, adn as true animal lovers, I now believe we should be looking to nature if we want to really provide what is best for the animals. It is all there for us to learn. The animal kingdom is amazing when you begin to understand how it works, but you must leave your human emotions behind. We should not be putting human values on animals. It is not natural and is not best for the animals. Setting a deformed young pup up with a trolley and other paraphenalia, and later drugs, is little more than doing something that will make us feel good - because we tried. It has all been tried before and most vets and serious animal people know that it is never a good long term solution. In almost every circumstance, it is far kinder to farewell a deformed pup, sooner rather than later. That is the only real caring that will benefit the pup in the longer term. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Age Outlaw Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Excellent post Souff...my sentiments exactly, though expressed more eloquently than I ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 As always Souff, a beautifully worded and realistic post :-) fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wonderful post Souff, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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