Agility Questions

[tigger000]

hey everyone!

i have a few questions regarding agility training...i am hoping you can help me out?

1. Do you ever use punishment in agility training? And if so, what type?

2. Do you follow a similar reinforcement schedule as in obedience (continuous - intermittent - random)...or do you reinforce the behaviour every single time?

3. What are the best training techniques (flooding, luring, guiding, mimicry, targeting, shaping etc) to teach a dog to weave?

I have an idea of what the best training techniques for other obstacles are such as the tunnel, hurdles and a-frame...but the weaving one has got me stuck! lol

Thanks in advance

[aussielover]

hey everyone!

i have a few questions regarding agility training...i am hoping you can help me out?

1. Do you ever use punishment in agility training? And if so, what type?

2. Do you follow a similar reinforcement schedule as in obedience (continuous - intermittent - random)...or do you reinforce the behaviour every single time?

3. What are the best training techniques (flooding, luring, guiding, mimicry, targeting, shaping etc) to teach a dog to weave?

I have an idea of what the best training techniques for other obstacles are such as the tunnel, hurdles and a-frame...but the weaving one has got me stuck! lol

Thanks in advance

I am not an agility expert, I am also looking to doing agility with my dog but this is my opinion anyway...

1. i don't think punishment is ever used in agility. You want it to be a fun activity not something your dog dreads. Also if you punish your dog, it will be less willing to try new things for you when training

2. I think the reinforcement would depend on the level and stage of training. Eg if you're teaching a new behaviour, then you would reward more frequently and once the behaviour becomes easy and established, then you would decrease rewards, or only reward for a string of behaviours. Very similar to obedience.

3. I think this depends on the dog. For my dog, initially, I know I would achieve the best result with luring/guiding as she is a very compliant and eager to please dog with a VERY high food drive she would literally do anything for food, or even the thought of food. I guess the technique used would be individual to the dog- what methods are your dogs used to and how do they learn best? i don't think its right to say that there is a best method for ALL dogs.

Good luck with your pup

[Cosmolo]

I would use shaping or channel weaves for most dogs but have taught successfuly with luring previously.

No physical punishment or verbal punishment ever, but i would consider using a no reward mark or putting the dog 'away' if needed. Most mistakes in agility if not all are handler problems though, either incorrect cues, body language, lack of training, handler too slow, handler not motivated etc.

Reinforce every time, then chain obstacles together and reward at the end of every chain- every time.

[corvus]

Most mistakes in agility if not all are handler problems though, either incorrect cues, body language, lack of training, handler too slow, handler not motivated etc.

Just agility?

We use Susan Garret's 2x2 method to train weaves at our agility club.

[Cosmolo]

Lol Corvus- so true!

[Kavik]

hey everyone!

i have a few questions regarding agility training...i am hoping you can help me out?

1. Do you ever use punishment in agility training? And if so, what type?

2. Do you follow a similar reinforcement schedule as in obedience (continuous - intermittent - random)...or do you reinforce the behaviour every single time?

3. What are the best training techniques (flooding, luring, guiding, mimicry, targeting, shaping etc) to teach a dog to weave?

I have an idea of what the best training techniques for other obstacles are such as the tunnel, hurdles and a-frame...but the weaving one has got me stuck! lol

Thanks in advance

1) No punishment used in agility ever. Sometimes use of no reward marker depending on exercise and level of understanding

2) Agree with Cosmolo on reinforcement . Great part is you can break exercises down into small increments and train and reward separate parts of the exercise.

3) With weaving there are many methods that are successful depending on handler experience and dog. Some of the common ones are:

a) using physical guides/barriers (not one I am a fan of)

b) channel method - where the poles are offset to make a channel for the dog to run through and the channel is slowly closed until the dog is weaving

c) slanted pole or V-Pole method - where the poles are slanted to make a path for the dog through the middle and the poles are slowly straightened until the dog is weaving

d) 3 pole method for teaching entries (combination luring/shaping)

e) Susan Garrett's 2x2 method using shaping

Edited March 12, 2011 by Kavik

[Staff'n'Toller]

Most mistakes in agility if not all are handler problems though, either incorrect cues, body language, lack of training, handler too slow, handler not motivated etc.

Just agility?

We use Susan Garret's 2x2 method to train weaves at our agility club.

I guess this is a subjective question but how long (how many weeks) does it take teaching it club style?

I've always wondered...

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

How old is your puppy?

1. Do you ever use punishment in agility training? And if so, what type?

Sometimes I say "oops" or "try again", and depending what we're doing I reset the dog ie if she's broke her start line stay, I make her sit /stand or turn her in a small circle by the collar and set her again. But I don't let her "go". Also if she's quick to bring back the tug, or she does an exercise really well, we have a really good excited longer than usual game of tug, and if she's slow, we have a short game of tug.

2. Do you follow a similar reinforcement schedule as in obedience (continuous - intermittent - random)...or do you reinforce the behaviour every single time?

I try to chain stuff (get her to do several things for a reward), but when we're first learning something, I reward every time she gets it right, and try to make getting it right easy, and sometimes jackpot when she gets it excellent. Some things I reward with a treat and sometimes I reward with tug or chase.

3. What are the best training techniques (flooding, luring, guiding, mimicry, targeting, shaping etc) to teach a dog to weave?

...the weaving one has got me stuck! lol

I use a combination of SG's 2x2 weave training and luring or guiding. Was progressing really well until she broke all the poles (skinny bamboo plant stakes). Now I have to get/make some new stronger weave poles.

I guess that's essentially shaping, starting with two poles and building up to 4 poles then 6 poles, lined up so they're easy to get right to start with and with a focus on getting the entry right from any angle and building accuracy and speed.

The world champions like Susan Garrett would not start a dog on weave pole training until it's fully grown physically ie 14 months old or older for a BC. And some of the obstacles are not for puppies either. But there is a heap of foundation training you can do before the dog needs to see a single piece of agility equipment like start line stays, and gos, and shadow handling (the dog is your shadow and learns to follow your body language). Recall, tug, and body awareness are more things a puppy needs to learn which help in agility.

[tigger000]

thanks for all your answers...

A lot of you have said to use a continuous schedule of reinforcement....reward every time.

I was wondering why you wouldnt move to an intermittent and randomized schedule?

[Vickie]

I was wondering why you wouldnt move to an intermittent and randomized schedule?

I guess the question is why would you?

Different people have different concepts of what they are rewarding, depending on their level, skill, goals.

Some people are happy to reward the dog successfully negotiating an obstacle, ie jump- bar stays up. Some feel there is a lot more to a jump than the bar staying up, ie jump with forward focus, not jumping too high, being able to place your dog over a specific part of the jump, distance from the handler, reading a turn cue etc

and all that is just one jump. Over a sequence or courses there are a hundred things you may want to reward

Edited March 13, 2011 by Vickie

[corvus]

Most mistakes in agility if not all are handler problems though, either incorrect cues, body language, lack of training, handler too slow, handler not motivated etc.

Just agility?

We use Susan Garret's 2x2 method to train weaves at our agility club.

I guess this is a subjective question but how long (how many weeks) does it take teaching it club style?

I've always wondered...

I think it depends on how much homework you do. Everyone is kind of at different stages in my class. To pass foundation agility they only need to go through two poles from a metre away. I think they started weaves halfway through the 12 week course. There doesn't seem to be much pressure to do it quickly, but they help you wherever you're up to.

[Agility Dogs]

1. Do you ever use punishment in agility training? And if so, what type?Yes, I do. If my girl decides to jump off a contact she gets a time out in a sit before she is allowed to continue. If she decides to do it a second time she walks off the course at heel and goes into her crate. This is a dog that is at advanced/masters standard and understands contact behaviour, but has been allowed to get away with jumping off contacts and now pushes the boundaries. Effectively this is probably removal of reward (the next jump), but in essence it is also a punishment.

For a younger, green dog I do not use punishment - my job is to make sure I don't ask for something that is not understood - foundations need to be in place BEFORE moving to the next phase. (Note to self - repeat 28 times every morning before training puppy.)

2. Do you follow a similar reinforcement schedule as in obedience (continuous - intermittent - random)...or do you reinforce the behaviour every single time?I don't do obedience formally, but start with a continuous schedule and then move to an intermittent schedule.

3. What are the best training techniques (flooding, luring, guiding, mimicry, targeting, shaping etc) to teach a dog to weave?I like the 2 x 2 method and use shaping to achieve it. I will be able to comment on a time frame in about 2 months time when I start with my youngster who has NO CLUE what weave poles are. (Other than a chew toy when they are left in the back yard......... )