Mason_Gibbs Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I am meeting a dog on saturday who is 6/7 months old who needs a new home. I would like to compete in obedience with the dog and maybe do a little bit of retrieving. I know its hard to see the dogs potential in one meeting but what characteristics do I look for in the dog? I got lucky with my lab as he is very very eager to please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Personally I don't know much but if I only had one afternoon some indicators might be - Can he play? (I would want a yes or at least shows interest) Does he want food (badly)? (Food driven dogs can be easier to train) Is he prepared to put in effort for food/play? (Biddability - my old girl wanted the food but would rather sit still until you caved) Does he seem shy/withdrawn? (If the answer is yes I would put some definate thought in) Does he startle easy? HA? DA? Is he a resource guarder? And does he seem inclined to chase/retrieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 when I got my puppy, I just picked the friendly one who liked playing with me... http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php I saw an interview with Tony Parsons who wrote the book for training kelpies. He said he picked the dog that liked being with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 From what i have heard he loves toys , especially playing tug and fetching. I have never chosen a dog thats over 8 weeks old so its going to be a first for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I would see how eager he is to play and be around you, I would also see how confident he is around you as a stranger to him, how eager he is to tug (and tug and tug and tug), how food driven he is. And then once you test that in his home environment take him somewhere new or unfamiliar to him and see if he's still just as eager to play there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Huski we wont be meeting him at his home, going to an unfamiliar park . Thought it be best for him and mason to meet somewhere new to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Take a new tug .. or a folded up small towel ... and engage the pup in play ...without mason around! I'd do this before the dogs meet - just you & the pup first. Do the greetings/getting to smell you stuff .. then take him a for a short leash walk.. and produce your tug toy .. make it exciting, have pup on long lead, and toss it around, seeing what he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Take a new tug .. or a folded up small towel ... and engage the pup in play ...without mason around! I'd do this before the dogs meet - just you & the pup first. Do the greetings/getting to smell you stuff .. then take him a for a short leash walk.. and produce your tug toy .. make it exciting, have pup on long lead, and toss it around, seeing what he does Agree with Pers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Don't put too much store in play. In unfamiliar surroundings it wouldn't be uncommon for him to be a little inhibited or disinterested. For example, exploration tends to be antagonistic to play, so sometimes it's hard to get even a very playful dog to do their thing with a tug toy if they are busy checking out their surroundings. Most people that select working dogs for training programs tend to place a lot of stock on whether the dog retrieves naturally or not. It's not the be all and end all, but dogs that naturally retrieve tend to do better in working dog trials according to some studies. They call it distance play - the willingness to play with an object at a distance from the person. The willingness to play with a person is a separate factor, and also looked upon favourably. Personally, I'd take a clicker and some good, tasty treats and just teach him something. And test the retrieve and tug as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Don't put too much store in play. In unfamiliar surroundings it wouldn't be uncommon for him to be a little inhibited or disinterested. For example, exploration tends to be antagonistic to play, so sometimes it's hard to get even a very playful dog to do their thing with a tug toy if they are busy checking out their surroundings. Most people that select working dogs for training programs tend to place a lot of stock on whether the dog retrieves naturally or not. It's not the be all and end all, but dogs that naturally retrieve tend to do better in working dog trials according to some studies. They call it distance play - the willingness to play with an object at a distance from the person. The willingness to play with a person is a separate factor, and also looked upon favourably. Personally, I'd take a clicker and some good, tasty treats and just teach him something. And test the retrieve and tug as well. The OP is looking at doing retrieveing trials with the dog - so I would say that some inclination to retrieve is quite important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The OP is looking at doing retrieveing trials with the dog - so I would say that some inclination to retrieve is quite important. I did notice that. I wouldn't write a dog off as a retriever if it didn't instantly race after a toy and bring it all the way back to me. There's a lot you can teach, is all. But I don't have any experience with retrievers. I have one dog that started out a natural retriever and doesn't really do it much anymore and one that isn't a natural retriever but I'm teaching him to retrieve. Mostly I think I just never played fetch with my dogs when they were young so they don't do it much. You never know what kind of untapped potential could be under the surface ready to burst out with a little coaxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The OP is looking at doing retrieveing trials with the dog - so I would say that some inclination to retrieve is quite important. I did notice that. I wouldn't write a dog off as a retriever if it didn't instantly race after a toy and bring it all the way back to me. There's a lot you can teach, is all. But I don't have any experience with retrievers. I have one dog that started out a natural retriever and doesn't really do it much anymore and one that isn't a natural retriever but I'm teaching him to retrieve. Mostly I think I just never played fetch with my dogs when they were young so they don't do it much. You never know what kind of untapped potential could be under the surface ready to burst out with a little coaxing. Hmm for a retriever doing retrieveing trials it's akin to a herding dog doing sheepdog trials, the dog has to have the instinct and enjoy/love it or there is no way the dog will run out 300m through a river, up a steep hill into long grass and back just to get a bird to bring back to you (and that's at a novice level ) I understand what you mean though, plently of dogs who have no retrieveing inclination naturally learn how to play fetch or retrieve a dumbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Sure there are lots of things you can teach but if I was after a competition dog specifically I would be looking for the drive/traits/instincts/temperament I want before deciding if I wanted the dog. I wouldn't get the dog and hope for the best if it didn't show at least some obvious potential. Edited March 11, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I wouldn't get the dog and hope for the best if it didn't show at least some obvious potential. That wasn't what I was suggesting. That is a black and white interpretation of what I said, which was profoundly grey, thank you. I don't know what the OP's specific situation is, so I'm just saying there's no need to be black and white about it. It's worthwhile taking a lot of different things into account, but nothing is likely to be a deciding factor on its own. The Vollhard test is about the best pet owners have got at the moment, but behaviour is difficult to predict and temperament is notoriously difficult. I've never found a study that has a reliable predictor in dogs under 8 months old, although who knows, hair whorls might turn out to be it. Over 8 months, tug and retrieve consistently come up, but that's not to say all successful dogs are good at tug and retrieve. There's usually a sociability aspect as well, but depends on what job the dog is being assessed for. Unless I was spoilt for choice or the dog was obviously exceptional, I'd want to see the dog more than once before I made a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have to do at least two laps around any new space with my dog before she's done checking that it's all ok and she can pay attention to me. I usually do the first lap on lead - so I can see it's ok too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Take a cap gun with you and have someone set it off from the carpark (further away). The best outcome would be that the dog orients to the sound but then goes back to playing, or doesn't notice it. If you have a noise phobic dog that doesn't recover well your job is more difficult for retrieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fetchindawgs Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 As you probably already know, Mason, the sire of that puppy is a highly competitive dog in retrieving, agility, jumping and obedience. Don't know about the dam, and as she is now in Tasmania, can't get to see her, but her lines were good too. Going on breeding, the pup should do it all, but of course you have to develop the desire and drive. If you really are definite about doing retrieving with him, then please DON'T do tug with him. At least not until you have him confident and reliable in the "hold" and release command. All you will be instilling in your pup is a game to hold on tight and pull against you. Definitely not what you want in the retrieving game. I can't imagine the pup not getting on with Mason, but I would try and establish some connection between yourself and the pup first, before introducing Mason. Maybe just do some happy throws of a dummy or piece of dowel with the pup, and see how he copes. If he has been socialized well enough with people and other dogs, then hopefully you won't see a problem. I have had two dogs come to me as older dogs. A male Lab. aged 4 yrs came into our family and we already had three dogs including an entire male. Absolutely no problems with any of them and all were great mates. I currently have a 3 yr old Lab. female who I got at 10 months of age. She was flown over from the east and was mine from the moment I opened the crate door. She fitted in to the dog and human family very quickly and easily. You will be fine with this pup, and he will be a great pup for you to continue on with all the disciplines you are interested in. Goodluck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't get the dog and hope for the best if it didn't show at least some obvious potential. That wasn't what I was suggesting. That is a black and white interpretation of what I said, which was profoundly grey, thank you. I don't know what the OP's specific situation is, so I'm just saying there's no need to be black and white about it. It's worthwhile taking a lot of different things into account, but nothing is likely to be a deciding factor on its own. The Vollhard test is about the best pet owners have got at the moment, but behaviour is difficult to predict and temperament is notoriously difficult. I've never found a study that has a reliable predictor in dogs under 8 months old, although who knows, hair whorls might turn out to be it. Over 8 months, tug and retrieve consistently come up, but that's not to say all successful dogs are good at tug and retrieve. There's usually a sociability aspect as well, but depends on what job the dog is being assessed for. Unless I was spoilt for choice or the dog was obviously exceptional, I'd want to see the dog more than once before I made a decision. The OP's specific situation is that it's very important that the dog naturally enjoys to retrieve or is totally crazy about it. The latter being better. If you're choosing pups @ 6 weeks you want the one that doesn't think twice about racing in for a bird wing and bringing it back or carrying it around. It makes your job a whole lot easier. Retrieving is much more (and different) work to obedience or agility, given that you need to win in your division to get titles, not just place or pass. As others have said it's like herding, if you want to do well the instinct has to be there. My boss has a wonderful little Lab bitch who I would have LOVED to take out competing as she's just crazy about retrieving and it matters not where you take her, or even if you gave her to a stranger to take out, she would be instantly comfortable to retrieve wherever she was. Edited March 11, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The OP is looking at doing retrieveing trials with the dog - so I would say that some inclination to retrieve is quite important. ;) I did notice that. I wouldn't write a dog off as a retriever if it didn't instantly race after a toy and bring it all the way back to me. There's a lot you can teach, is all. But I don't have any experience with retrievers. I have one dog that started out a natural retriever and doesn't really do it much anymore and one that isn't a natural retriever but I'm teaching him to retrieve. Mostly I think I just never played fetch with my dogs when they were young so they don't do it much. You never know what kind of untapped potential could be under the surface ready to burst out with a little coaxing. Hmm for a retriever doing retrieveing trials it's akin to a herding dog doing sheepdog trials, the dog has to have the instinct and enjoy/love it or there is no way the dog will run out 300m through a river, up a steep hill into long grass and back just to get a bird to bring back to you (and that's at a novice level ;) ) I understand what you mean though, plently of dogs who have no retrieveing inclination naturally learn how to play fetch or retrieve a dumbell. Example is Millie, I got her as a 2 year old and she had no interest in toys or play, especially not in her first days settling in! Over a couple of months, she learnt to love her squeaky ball, and brought it back to have it thrown again. I shaped the obedience retrieve, and now that I am starting retrieving with her, she is racing out for approx 100m marks already and bringing them back with just as much gusto as she races out to it. I don't foresee too many issues to graduating to longer marks (birds may be another issue ) Retrieving instinct is sometimes hidden I guess, and it takes nurturing and time for it to come out Don't be alarmed if the dog doesn't want to play in the first meeting, or even within the first couple of weeks while he is settling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I wouldn't even play tug, if we didn't have give/geddit sorted. Retreive though - I think I will have to use the 50 point breakdown to get that reliable. Sometimes she does, and sometimes she doesn't. Mostly she chases the object, and then does one of several things like - a few victory laps, sitting down and ripping the fetch object to bits, or just wandering off to do something else, or comes back to me without it, and every now and again we string a few where she comes back with it - whoo hoo. Not interested in jackpot treats at this point, just another throw. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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