Just A Question That

[Dogsrawesome]

Sorry if this sounds stupid in anyway.

You know how you can get a smooth or rough collie

if you breed a smooth with a rough would you get a mixture of smooth and roughs

or would it be like between smooth and rough?

Just curious haha

[Gayle.]

I think you get some rough and some smooth.

[shortstep]

In border collies

Smooth is dominate = S, a smooth dog can be recessive for rough. SS or Sr

Rough is recessive = r, a rough dog can only give a rough gene. rr

Rough to rough always gets rough 1. rr+ rr= rr

Smooth to smooth can have either smooth or rough depending on if they are recessive for rough 1. SS + SS = SS 2. Sr + Sr = SS or Sr or rr 3. SS + Sr= SS or Sr

Rough to smooth can have either smooth or rough depending on if the smooth is recesive for rough. 1. SS + rr = Sr 2. Sr + rr = Sr or rr

I also understand it is believed the length of hair is also controlled by other yet unknown genes, these can cause some shotening or lenghting of the coat also. So a rough might have slighty longer or shorter hair then average and a smooth might have some slight feathering or slightly longer hair.

There are also other genes that control the amount of undercoat and yet others that control the textrue of the coat.

Edited March 9, 2011 by shortstep

[oakway]

You will get a some Rough and some Smooth.

[shortstep]

You will get a some Rough and some Smooth.

Interesting, so smooth collies always recessive for rough?

It is not that way in border collies, then can be SS and will never produce rough pups nomatter what coat type they are bred to.

[Dogsrawesome]

Oh ok that second post just confused me a little haha i will re read it when i wake up a bit

Its interesting how some things work

[Janba]

You will get a some Rough and some Smooth.

Interesting, so smooth collies always recessive for rough?

It is not that way in border collies, then can be SS and will never produce rough pups nomatter what coat type they are bred to.

According to Sheila Schmutz the rough and smooth collie are the same as the borders

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/coatType.html

My curiosity made me go and look.

[Eridor]

Firslty in Australia we are lucky enough to be able to inter breed rough to smooth, some countries you cant.

If you have a pure for smooth collie smooth and mate it to a rough you will only get smooths.

If you have a rough factored smooth put to a rough you will get roughs and smooths

If you put a rough factored smooth to a rough factored smooth you will get both coat types.

If you put pure for smooth to pure for smooth you will only get smooths

I hope that is a bit clearer for you The best thing to remember is that the gene that produces a smooth coat is dominant and the gene for a rough coat is recessive. In genetics, two genes are needed to produce a single trait.

I mated two smooth and in the 4 pups I have I have 3 smooths and 1 rough.

Whether the rough will have a "good" rough coat is dependant on if both parents passed on good coat genes, whether the smooths have "good" smooth coats is also dependant on the same thing

[shortstep]

Oh ok that second post just confused me a little haha i will re read it when i wake up a bit

Its interesting how some things work

Sorry. I tried to make it understandable.

You know with basic genetics it always take 2.

So each trait/gene has two parts, one from each parent.

Dominate traits are capital letters.

Recessive traits are lower case.

So each dog will have 2 letters, that shows what their coat is and also what possible coats they can pass on.

Each parent can give only one of their 2 traits (letters) to each pup.

So for example an SS dog has two dominate traits for smooth coat. He must be smooth coated. He can only give a S trait on to his pup, and therefore can only produce smooth coated dogs.

rr is a rough coated dog, he is rough coated because there is no dominate S traits present. He can only give r recessive rough coated gene to his pups. It does not tell you what coat the pup will have as it is only one part of the pups 2 traits and r is recessive, but we do know at least his pup will be recessive for rough.

When a dog is Sr, it means that have the dominate S traits so will be smooth coated, but they are recessive for rough. They can pass on either a r or a S trait to their pups.

Is it sort of making sense now?

In border collies a dog can be one of three types

SS smooth coated and can only pass on a dominate smooth coat

rr rough coated and can only pass on a recessive rough coat trait

Sr Smooth coated but recessive for rough, can pass on either a recessive rough or a dominate smooth.

To figure a litter between 2 dogs you just select the parents from above and pull out all the possible combinations.

Problem is a smooth coated dogs could be dominate for smooth SS or they could be Sr smooth and recessive for rough.

One smooth SS can only have smooth pups, the other Smooth Sr can have both smooth and rough pups.

[shortstep]

Firslty in Australia we are lucky enough to be able to inter breed rough to smooth, some countries you cant.

If you have a pure for smooth collie smooth and mate it to a rough you will only get smooths.

If you have a rough factored smooth put to a rough you will get roughs and smooths

If you put a rough factored smooth to a rough factored smooth you will get both coat types.

If you put pure for smooth to pure for smooth you will only get smooths

I hope that is a bit clearer for you The best thing to remember is that the gene that produces a smooth coat is dominant and the gene for a rough coat is recessive. In genetics, two genes are needed to produce a single trait.

I mated two smooth and in the 4 pups I have I have 3 smooths and 1 rough.

Whether the rough will have a "good" rough coat is dependant on if both parents passed on good coat genes, whether the smooths have "good" smooth coats is also dependant on the same thing

Thanks, that is the same inheritance pattern as for border collies.

Border collies can and are also bred smooth to rough. Well every where in the world except in the Australain kennel club. They decided to bred out the dominate, perfectly heatlhy and far more suitable for Australian working ocndtions, smooth coated genes from the show dogs. Smooth coated dogs make up about half of the population of border collies world wide. Many people not only prefer the ease of care of smooth coats on their working dogs but also prefer the sleek and stealth apperance of a smooth coated dog when at work.

Edited March 9, 2011 by shortstep

[Dogsrawesome]

Sorry. I tried to make it understandable.

You know with basic genetics it always take 2.

So each trait/gene has two parts, one from each parent.

Dominate traits are capital letters.

Recessive traits are lower case.

So each dog will have 2 letters, that shows what their coat is and also what possible coats they can pass on.

Each parent can give only one of their 2 traits (letters) to each pup.

So for example an SS dog has two dominate traits for smooth coat. He must be smooth coated. He can only give a S trait on to his pup, and therefore can only produce smooth coated dogs.

rr is a rough coated dog, he is rough coated because there is no dominate S traits present. He can only give r recessive rough coated gene to his pups. It does not tell you what coat the pup will have as it is only one part of the pups 2 traits and r is recessive, but we do know at least his pup will be recessive for rough.

When a dog is Sr, it means that have the dominate S traits so will be smooth coated, but they are recessive for rough. They can pass on either a r or a S trait to their pups.

Is it sort of making sense now?

In border collies a dog can be one of three types

SS smooth coated and can only pass on a dominate smooth coat

rr rough coated and can only pass on a recessive rough coat trait

Sr Smooth coated but recessive for rough, can pass on either a recessive rough or a dominate smooth.

To figure a litter between 2 dogs you just select the parents from above and pull out all the possible combinations.

Problem is a smooth coated dogs could be dominate for smooth SS or they could be Sr smooth and recessive for rough.

One smooth SS can only have smooth pups, the other Smooth Sr can have both smooth and rough pups.

Yeah we sort of learnt some of that in grade 12 last year just took a little bit to realise what was going on haha. Its really interesting