Why Is Aus Becoming So Non Dog Friendly

[Faolmor]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

I think Australia is becoming less dog friendly for a range of reasons:

* increasing urbanisation, smaller blocks and more dual income families see dogs left alone a lot.

* not all families compensate for this by spending more time with the dog.

* breed choice hasn't always followed changes in demographics so you've got a lot of breeds probably unsuited to their familes

* then we have a loss of recreational space.

Result: more dogs, in less space, with less time given to their exercise and possibly not ideally suited to their owners. Many of them won't have had a lot of training.

So that means more dog poo, less control and some folk who object to being accosted by dogs in range of situations.

God knows why but IMO the average Aussie thinks its the job of government to "do something" about anything that inconveniences them. Government oils the squeaky wheels and restricts dogs while the apathy of most Aussies about things political allows it to happen and many simply ignore the restrictions making things worse.

Australians IMO are not a particularly tolerant society. While we like to think we are, my observation is most Australians are tolerant only to the point where they are inconvenienced by something. Then they seem to like it banned.

Governments like bans. They're cheap, they're seem to be doing something and they can be nice earners. So we ban when we might simply penalise the irresponsible. Its dog owners loss.

I could probably ramble on for a while about how increasingly disconnected from nature many folk are and that they see all animal behaviour through the lens of their own but that's a whole nuther issue

This.

[Jed]

Councils enacted laws keeping dogs away from outdoor cafes, off public transport, our of taxis, and away from parks --- sometimes because individual councillors dislike dogs, and sometimes in response to requests from the public.

Because there was no concentrated effort by dog owners to oppose the laws at inception, they were introduced, and another area was closed to dogs.

I see that dogs are welcome at outdoor cafes in Vic - and I have never seen one put a foot wrong. Polite well behaved dogs, and non dog owners at cafes seem friendly towards the dogs. Meanwhile, dogs are not allowed anywhere need food in Qld.

Maybe if dog owners want relaxation of the laws they need to get together, and lobby councils and governments.

If councils don't know how dog owners feel, nothing will change.

Edited to add - When I was a teenager, you could take your dog into most shops (presuming it was well behaved) - and then dogs were excluded from shops which sold food - obviously in response to health concerns - maybe not justified. Dogs could and did walk everywhere. I wonder at the legality of closing some parks to some sections of the community - but not sure of the legal stance on that. Over time, the freedom of dogs has gradually been curtailed.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Jed

[Swiss Girl]

Where I live in WA we used to have several dog free parks within 5 minutes walk of my house, now I have 5 parks. They seem to have gone the other way and made all parks dog free, with a notice saying the dogs must be under your control. I love it, but do wonder why we can't have at least 2 parks for kids where dogs aren't allowed. I can walk my dogs at a park where people are playing sport and kids run around screaming. My dogs are well behaved so I don't have a problem, but I am wondering when the first accident will happen.

Being able to take dogs on public transport would be great and cafe's good, but dogs don't have to go everywhere with us.

[sandgrubber]

Another difference between Australia and Europe is how common dogs are. In Australia, almost half of all households have dogs. In Europe it tends to be more like one in five. Europeans consider dog ownership a priveledge, and they pay a lot to do it . . . licensing fees are high, puppy prices are high . . . etc. Dogs are much cheaper in Australia, and people, on average, invest a lot less in their dogs. I'm in the US now . . . I'd say the US is in between . . . but not to the standards of Europe by a long ways . . . and in some ways restrictions on dogs are even harsher than in Australia . . . for example, there are very few dog beaches in California and the off-lead parks are terrible.

Edited March 8, 2011 by sandgrubber

[Steve]

Because some dog owners are idiots and just like some parents take their kids out and no one can stand to be in their company its the same with some dog owners.

Your dog is cute - it wont bite or bound all through someone's picnic when you run on the beach with it - it stays beside you and doesnt bother anyone.

But 10 others run on the beach with their dog and it ruins my day. It craps and you leave it there, where my kids get to walk in it with bare feet. It runs where ever it wants , races up to and knocks over my kid makes me worry about the kid's safety.

Your dog is great it comes with you to a cafe and sleeps at your feet under your table. But 10 others let their dog move around and piddle on table legs. Sniff in my lap and threaten to steal my dinner.

Your dog walks with out a problem off leash but I cant walk around the neighbourhood without being threatened ,my dog attacked and feel unsafe because dogs off leash run wild.

Even some people who visit this forum and believe they are great dog owners cant see that their dogs are horrible for others to have to cope with when they take em out. Those of you who have have met up with people from dogz with their dogs in a social setting havent all had a good experience because some others dont have any brains when it comes to understanding the need for basic good manners and concern for everyone else who uses a public place's rights.

3 issues - one that dog owners arent all good dog owners and those who love their dogs , keep em inside , spoil em rotten and cant see how they impact on others when they take em out are capable of getting it wrong as well as someone who keeps their dog in a back yard rather than inside on satin pillows.

Two that rather than enforce laws which existed or exist when those people who are idiots muck it up, rather than making them get real and punish them for what they do they make more and more restrictive laws.

Three - that there is no distinction between a responsible dog owner and one who is not - MDBA responsible pet owner members excluded - so we all have to live under laws which try to cover it - in case someone is an idiot. In case you are an idiot and you get on a bus and let your dog jump up on my new designer business suit and put dog hair all over it and make me look bad for my job interview - everyone stays off the bus if they have their dog with them. In case you are an idiot and your dog craps on the beach and skittles my kids every one with a dog stays off the beach.

[Christina]

One can't class all of Europe as being the same in dog ownership. Finland & Spain would have very different attitudes to ownership & all animal related matters. Romania & the UK (which is part of Europe ) would be totally different yet again.

As an english person I find Australia really dog unfriendly, too many rules, intolerant attitude & worse with cats, dogs are considered unclean/unhygienic by many, don't live as family as much, seem to have trouble training or coping with them, can't take them enough places, too much bad publicity.

Ownership varies according to individual no matter what country. Culture & what your parents did has a big impact.

I have never had to wade my way through streets paved in dog poo in Europe, seen more of it here actually

Mans best friend isn't anymore, its regulated & negatively publicised out of all proportion now.

[Boxerheart]

Society today is too wrapped up in technology and losing it's ability to interact with and understand animals.

[sandgrubber]

I wish a lot more people who should not own a dog were content with getting an i-pad (the i-pad's probably cheaper in the long run). In Oz as the USofA, there are too many people who have dogs that shouldn't

Society today is too wrapped up in technology and losing it's ability to interact with and understand animals.

Edited March 9, 2011 by sandgrubber

[oakway]

As this is in General Dog Discussion I think it may be a good idea to point out to those that do not show their dogs that in the States many Breed Specialty Shows are held in the Ball Room's of prominent Hotels.

The dogs live in the Hotel with their owner/s or handler/s.

It is not unusual to get into a lift with several dog's.

This is something that you would not find in Australia.

If you have been to England you would also find that dog's are far more welcome in some places than they are here.

I remember stepping over the Landlords dog in order to get served in Richmond Hotel.

[Nekhbet]

because we have a culture that dogs are not something to elevate in status.

- you chuck it a couple of toys which its meant to not destroy, and has to be happy with for the next god knows how long

- it eats whatever is cheap, that fancy food is only for show dogs

- we see a massive distinction between 'pets' and 'show dogs'. The fact there is little to no difference is not apparent to majority of the population, and people will say why bother going through a registered breeder all I want is a pet, not an expensive show animal

- dog sports are not encouraged in this country, in fact we make them seem unnatainable or a chore. They're in fact decreasing which is sad

- puppy preschools, although a good invention, are not pushing people into dog clubs. Too many owners see them as the be all and end all of training, when in fact they should be informed it is nothing but the beginning. I hear a lot 'we did dog training' ... where ... 'Fido went to puppy preschool'

- Too many people are speaking on our behalf. I come across many people who want to take their dogs places but it seems to be local and state governments that jump into stupid dog laws. I dont think the proportion of people who really are offended by dogs in public places is really as high as they make it out to be. One example is the night market here in Geelong. Last year dogs were allowed except for in the food selling areas/tables (fair enough as some people sat on the grass to eat) This year there was a fence around the whole thing and a blanket ban. Those of us who brought dogs stood around the perimeter like lepers while waiting for others who had gone inside (irony - held at an off leash area)

- people dont like standing out. Sometimes I'm the only one walking about with a dog ... then many will walk up for a pat and a chat, saying 'oh I never thought my dog would enjoy coming out to this too!' Push the envalope, you might start a trend

- people are not that dog savvy. They also seem to believe anything that is written, when an article says 'this is a good family dog' they just go do it, despite the fact the writer may not know the head from the tail. People used to go see dogs and breeders, they knew that dogs off the farm were workers, instead now its fun to go take the kids for a drive and pick up one of those short hair border collies to bring into their suburban home! We're an instant gratification society, and since dogs need work not enough of them keep up with that ideal. How many people are purchasing expensive rarer breeds only to dump them months later when reality sets in (I have a $3000 dog care of that attitude)

- we're living in smaller and smaller spaces. When your neighbour is 2 meters away from you of course you're both going to hear what the other is doing. A dog will bark when you're that close. It's not PC to complain about loud bratty kids, so we pick on the dogs for breathing too loudly because we insist on living in shoeboxes. Modern estates are shockers for amplifying sounds I have found.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Nekhbet

[dee lee]

As this is in General Dog Discussion I think it may be a good idea to point out to those that do not show their dogs that in the States many Breed Specialty Shows are held in the Ball Room's of prominent Hotels.

The dogs live in the Hotel with their owner/s or handler/s.

It is not unusual to get into a lift with several dog's.

This is something that you would not find in Australia.

If you have been to England you would also find that dog's are far more welcome in some places than they are here.

I remember stepping over the Landlords dog in order to get served in Richmond Hotel.

There are no laws against Hotels having dogs stay- The reason why dogs are unwelcome at the majority of good hotels is because the owners of the hotels do not want them there. Presumably because they feel that it would be to the detriment of their business.

Probably justified considering some stories I have read on here re dog friendly hotels.

Anyway, there are some hotels that do allow dogs here in Sydney. I would think that there would be others all over Australia?

I think it is sensible that dogs are not allowed everywhere here.

For example, I would love to bring my dog to work at my city office. But as Steve said, that while my dog might sit calmly at my feet you can bet that there would be several that wouldnt. There would invariably be a mess, or a fight.

Same goes for many other places.

And dogs are allowed in some places on public transport- in Victoria they are allowed on trains. The other day I got onto a Sydney bus and saw a man with a papillion on his lap!!

As for cafes/restaurants- I take my dog everyday for coffee. There are usually several other dogs happily lying on their owners feet there too. I'm happy to sit outside if it means she can come too.

Also I do question that all european dogs are well behaved and walk perfectly offlead everywhere. I haven't ever noticed that and I find it hard to believe.

I certainly hope that never happens here. Just yesterday I noticed one of the mums at my kids school walking her young bullmastiff offlead to school.

This young dog has tried to jump on my dog when onlead previously and the woman has little control over her.

I crossed the road- I certainly wasn't going to take a risk on an offlead 50kg dog.

PLUS there is the risk to the dog- its russian roulette near busy roads. :D

As for Paris- I havent seen much poo on the streets but god I have smelt the urine everywhere...

And I know there are just as many non-sophisticate bogans in France as here (its just pronounced differently).

Edited March 9, 2011 by dee lee

[oakway]

As this is in General Dog Discussion I think it may be a good idea to point out to those that do not show their dogs that in the States many Breed Specialty Shows are held in the Ball Room's of prominent Hotels.

The dogs live in the Hotel with their owner/s or handler/s.

It is not unusual to get into a lift with several dog's.

This is something that you would not find in Australia.

If you have been to England you would also find that dog's are far more welcome in some places than they are here.

I remember stepping over the Landlords dog in order to get served in Richmond Hotel.

There are no laws against Hotels having dogs stay- The reason why dogs are unwelcome at the majority of good hotels is because the owners of the hotels do not want them there. Presumably because they feel that it would be to the detriment of their business.

Probably justified considering some stories I have read on here re dog friendly hotels.

Anyway, there are some hotels that do allow dogs here in Sydney. I would think that there would be others all over Australia?

I think it is sensible that dogs are not allowed everywhere here.

For example, I would love to bring my dog to work at my city office. But as Steve said, that while my dog might sit calmly at my feet you can bet that there would be several that wouldnt. There would invariably be a mess, or a fight.

Same goes for many other places.

And dogs are allowed in some places on public transport- in Victoria they are allowed on trains. The other day I got onto a Sydney bus and saw a man with a papillion on his lap!!

As for cafes/restaurants- I take my dog everyday for coffee. There are usually several other dogs happily lying on their owners feet there too. I'm happy to sit outside if it means she can come too.

Also I do question that all european dogs are well behaved and walk perfectly offlead everywhere. I haven't ever noticed that and I find it hard to believe.

I certainly hope that never happens here. Just yesterday I noticed one of the mums at my kids school walking her young bullmastiff offlead to school.

This young dog has tried to jump on my dog when onlead previously and the woman has little control over her.

I crossed the road- I certainly wasn't going to take a risk on an offlead 50kg dog.

PLUS there is the risk to the dog- its russian roulette near busy roads. :D

As for Paris- I havent seen much poo on the streets but god I have smelt the urine everywhere...

And I know there are just as many non-sophisticate bogans in France as here (its just pronounced differently).

Sheesh what brought that on.

I only offered some imformation that is not normally seen in Australia.

[dee lee]

Lol, that wasnt all in response to your post!

[oakway]

Lol, that wasnt all in response to your post!

Thank goodness for that

[Nekhbet]

in Vic apparently they should be muzzled ... Buses will still say no, but I used to take my Malinois on the train into the city and walk through Flinders St station.

As for dogs being unhygenic, I had my Mal on the train once. We sat at the back away from everyone and took up no space. Two drunk guys walked on the train (middle of the day) and one leaned over and vomited all over the floor in front of us, laughing how the train made him sick. I beg to differ the fact that dogs are dirtier then people.

You will find tolerance more for small dogs then big ones. Because they can carry them about people seem to make an exception, which shits me to tears. I nearly picked up my Rottweiler once when being told I was not welcome in a market, then a man walks past me carrying a Daschund, then when inside put it on the ground to walk around. I'll fix my back and do it one day dammit

[trojka]

Just a little story on the side. A friend of mine is Spanish. In Spain, dogs are no longer allowed on trains, unless they're (small) dogs in a carry bag. Well, my friend had a Maremma cross (I guess he would have been around 40-50kg), while my friend himself is a very short, skinny guy. He found a bag big enough, lifted his dog onto the train (I can only imagine what that would have looked like), and the dog was happy to sit in his bag for the duration of the train ride. He never had any problems with this and they traveled around a fair bit together.

And dogs aren't allowed on VLine trains in Victoria, unless they're assistance dogs.

[PossumCorner]

The "all dogs muzzled" on Melbourne area trains must be fairly new. It used to be only large dogs must wear a muzzle, small dogs at owner's discretion.

So what constitutes a muzzle? If I take my dog/s on the train and put a black fabric strip from the collar, lightly around muzzle and back to collar is that a muzzle? Or if I buy one of those pretty useless mesh muzzles in the $2 shop does that qualify? If other passengers perceive that a dog is muzzled even if it not a heavy thing of metal and moulded leather is that enough? What about a Halti or Gentle-Leader - could they be counted as a muzzle?

I've never been questioned by station staff when stepping on or off the train with un-muzzled dogs - and I hadn't heard til I saw Nekhbet's post above that all dogs are required to be muzzled (supported by the note on their website I just googled). My dogs don't do being muzzled, they'd be fraught, ouchies. Maybe I'll carry some lightweight ones and say "I'm just putting it on now" if any of godz little police say anything. Bummer anyway.

[Fleuri]

Just a little story on the side. A friend of mine is Spanish. In Spain, dogs are no longer allowed on trains, unless they're (small) dogs in a carry bag. Well, my friend had a Maremma cross (I guess he would have been around 40-50kg), while my friend himself is a very short, skinny guy. He found a bag big enough, lifted his dog onto the train (I can only imagine what that would have looked like), and the dog was happy to sit in his bag for the duration of the train ride. He never had any problems with this and they traveled around a fair bit together.

And dogs aren't allowed on VLine trains in Victoria, unless they're assistance dogs.

I saw one guy get on the public bus with a dog in a large backpack. I don't know if the driver noticed, can't see how he couldn't. There is lady that gets on the bus with her small dog in a shopping trolleys (granny trolley as I call them. I love those trolleys, so useful)

[Christina]

As this is in General Dog Discussion I think it may be a good idea to point out to those that do not show their dogs that in the States many Breed Specialty Shows are held in the Ball Room's of prominent Hotels.

The dogs live in the Hotel with their owner/s or handler/s.

It is not unusual to get into a lift with several dog's.

This is something that you would not find in Australia.

If you have been to England you would also find that dog's are far more welcome in some places than they are here.

I remember stepping over the Landlords dog in order to get served in Richmond Hotel.

Ha memory lane. I just remembered going to dog show classes with my Chihuahua puppy in a room in the Disley Hotel, near Buxton UK in about 1975.

Near there in a little village called Leek 3 years ago there was a man in the pub with his dog too.

Different culture.

[chuckandsteve]

I think a major problem is that dog training is so incredibly expensive here.

1 on 1 training I understand is expensive but group training I think should be a lot cheaper than it is.

$40 a lesson is crazy expensive and out of reach of a lot of people including myself.

We are lucky enough to find a trainer that would give us a private lesson with our 2 dogs for $30 and we went to the Knox dog club at $80 a year for 2 people. But otherwise it would have been all on our own