Why Is Aus Becoming So Non Dog Friendly

[dee lee]

I understand the frustration with public transport, but I also think the only appropriate public transport would be a train due to space issues- not everyone wants a dog that close to them.

Aside from that I dont find Australia too non dog friendly.

Not picking on you Oakway and Christina , but I do want to point out again that there are hotel and pub establishments that allow dogs. At least in Sydney and Melbourne anyway.

In Sydney two examples I can put forth are the London Hotel in Balmain and the Norfolk Hotel in Redfern. Both welcome dogs. In Melbourne, I understand the Botanic Hotel (?) in South Yarra is also dog friendly- they even used to have a night specifically for dogs and their owners.

There also several hotels in the eastern suburbs of Sydney that are dog friendly such as the Hughenden in Woollahra and the Medusa in Darlinghurst.

These are just examples I have personally come across, I know there are more.

So whilst I understand the romantic nostalgia, we do also have some of our own lovely friendly dog stories here too.

[Monah]

As this is in General Dog Discussion I think it may be a good idea to point out to those that do not show their dogs that in the States many Breed Specialty Shows are held in the Ball Room's of prominent Hotels.

The dogs live in the Hotel with their owner/s or handler/s.

It is not unusual to get into a lift with several dog's.

This is something that you would not find in Australia.

If you have been to England you would also find that dog's are far more welcome in some places than they are here.

I remember stepping over the Landlords dog in order to get served in Richmond Hotel.

Ha memory lane. I just remembered going to dog show classes with my Chihuahua puppy in a room in the Disley Hotel, near Buxton UK in about 1975.

Near there in a little village called Leek 3 years ago there was a man in the pub with his dog too.

Different culture.

Many people also travel over to france(to catch flights) as often they can take their dogs on the plane with them...

Aust is dog unfriendly, nearly always has been, I have no idea why it is as it is, doesnt make any sense at all, we have such a small populations and many wide open spaces and the most coastline of anywhere, yet NO DOGS is a very common sign. ;) I have many many 'facebook' friends from all sorts of Euro places (dog breeders/show) and the lovely photos of their dogs is all sorts of places is wonderful to see.

[Miranda]

So whilst I understand the romantic nostalgia

Absolutely nothing to do with romantic nostalgia dee lee, it's a fact. Australia is a very unfriendly country when it comes to dogs, having lived in both the U.K. and Europe and travelled extensively overseas I can vouch for that. As Christina said, it's a different culture.

[LizT]

One day when sightseeing in Austria we stopped at a Tavern for lunch. We sat outside in a Beer Garden and there was a Rough Collie siting besides it owner at one of the tables. At another table a German Shepherd was snoozing on the floor as the owner drank and laughed. We had a little 6 months old baby with us and we had no qualms about his safety as I put his carrier on the floor bedside my chair. Whilst we ate lunch the Collie and his family got up and left and the collie walked past a Doberman and his people who were just arriving without so much as a sideways glance from either dog. I knew these dogs were beautifully socialised and no harm would come to my child who continued to sleep peacefully on the floor.

On the same trip whilst in London we stopped at the Pub. "We don't allow those in here"..I heard a male voice announce. I turned around expecting him to be addressing someone with a dog but NO. It was my baby he was referring to. :rolleyes: Some cultures take getting used to.

Edited March 10, 2011 by LizT

[LizT]

I understand the frustration with public transport, but I also think the only appropriate public transport would be a train due to space issues- not everyone wants a dog that close to them.

Aside from that I dont find Australia too non dog friendly. :rolleyes:

Not picking on you Oakway and Christina , but I do want to point out again that there are hotel and pub establishments that allow dogs. At least in Sydney and Melbourne anyway.

In Sydney two examples I can put forth are the London Hotel in Balmain and the Norfolk Hotel in Redfern. Both welcome dogs. In Melbourne, I understand the Botanic Hotel (?) in South Yarra is also dog friendly- they even used to have a night specifically for dogs and their owners.

There also several hotels in the eastern suburbs of Sydney that are dog friendly such as the Hughenden in Woollahra and the Medusa in Darlinghurst.

These are just examples I have personally come across, I know there are more.

So whilst I understand the romantic nostalgia, we do also have some of our own lovely friendly dog stories here too.

I believe that most "Dog Friendly" cafes and pubs, (including coffee shops that put out water bowls for dogs) are actually violating many council rulings and health codes and despite a blind eye being turned for many that some are also prosecuted for this.

[pawsaroundoz]

I do not think there is any 1 answer to this but I really do believe we are becoming more and more unfriendly towards dog ownership among other things ( independant camping in a leave no trace way, rather than being in a caravan jail, oops sorry park, is one that springs to my mind) some of this has to go back to the Aussie 'she'll be right attitude which is great when things are going well but when people start whittling away at your freedome as a responsible dog owner or traveller or whatever, we really need to stand up and shout 'NO MORE' as the people who don't want us to play with our dogs on the oval, or have a coffee sitting outside a shop with our best mates, for no other reason than they don't do it, tend to make a great deal of noise - we must too, about all our small freedoms being taken away from us, all those things that too many people, make life enjoyable.

My 2 friends (who I meet for coffee every 1st sunday in the month) and I meet for coffee with our dogs in a local park as there do not seem to be any dog friendly places in Darwin, we take our brewed coffee, table and chairs, some yummy brunchy things to eat and of course our dogs! It is very enjoyable, we often have people come over for a chat and some have even joined us!

Annie

Edited March 10, 2011 by pawsaroundoz

[gwenneth1]

In advance, apologies for being a wishy washy fence sitter, because I can appreciate two sides.

On one side, I get fed up to the back teeth with irresponsible owners who have their untrained dogs following them off leash, in around busy roads, other dogs and people. The same "type" of people, usually have large, intact male dogs who frequently terrorise other dogs and their owners, much to the joy of the knuckledragging type owner. (same type usually sports mutliple tattoos (not that there's anything wrong with that...) and will roll up one leg of said tracksuit pants and strip shirt off in order to share their ink with the world, complete with mullet cut (which, in my humble opinion was an eyesore in the 80's!)

Or there are the seemingly articulate and intelligent owner, who gets a breed type totally unsuitable to their personality and level of understanding about such a dog, so their dogs drag them all over the placewhile out for a walk, owner quickly looks around hoping nobody sees their dog take a huge dump on somebody's front lawn or footpath (leave said mess); jump up on strangers, either boisterously try and play with other dogs, or try and pick fights with other dogs.

Owner gets frustrated and stressed and dog becomes more uncontrollable, but owner still insists on taking dogs out and attempt to have coffee on the sidewalk close enough to other patrons, so dog barks, jumps, pulls , gets tangled in other patrons chairs etc and generally puts other patrons off.

These two types give good dog owners a bad name and one bad apple does tend to spoil it for the rest.

On the other side. I have spent (like many others) an inordinate amount of time, effort and a little money to do my best to be a thoughtful and courteous dog owner. I keep my dog on a lead whilst out in public, I carry plastic bags to clean up, I carry water to give my dog a drink (in one of those nifty little doggie water bottles); I go out of my way to socialise my dogs; I don't let my dogs become an unwelcome, intrusive pest to others.

I would like to be able to take my dog more places, but it seems a lot of this has been closed off by pencil pushers who find it easier to just simply ban things rather than tackle those who break the rules, an easier and cheaper option for them. I resent those pencil pushers and I resent the idiotic owners who instigated the over zelous laws and regulations but then I do not have enough faith in ALL dog owners to prove we can collectively do the right thing.

I thought it may be interesting to add this though. When I grew up, as a child, we all use to go to parks, make tree houses, cubbys, ride bikes and horses around. All of us generally had a dog in tow (off lead, I may add). All the dogs were bits of this and that (when the first purebreds came to town in the form of a bull terrier and dobermann it created a sensation!), all the dogs (male dogs were always intact) got along, followed us faithfully, did not bite, chase, fight or cause mischief. I can recollect probably one minor dog fight when we were walking home and a homeowner's dog jump the fence to have a go at our dogs and one child being reported bitten by an unknown cattledog cross in a public park. I don't think I'm being carried away with sentiment from those times, but I really do think that dogs generally seemed to be more social and well adjusted back then, then they generally seem to be now.

I would be interested to hear others thoughts from those who grew up in the late 60's and 70's to see if was a similar scenario in their area.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

(dogs at cafes)

violating many council rulings and health codes

I've done extensive internet searches about this and all I could find is that "animals are not allowed in food preparation areas". So a dog sitting in the eating area - is not breaking this rule. And in fact, guide dogs (for blind people) are not allowed to be refused. And I think the rules are beginning to include disability help dogs besides just dogs that assist blind people.

Same with hotels. While a hotel might choose to ban dogs, it isn't for "health reasons".

Really, we're much more likely to get "health problems" from other humans than our dogs.

[Christina]

On the same trip whilst in London we stopped at the Pub. "We don't allow those in here"..I heard a male voice announce. I turned around expecting him to be addressing someone with a dog but NO. It was my baby he was referring to. Some cultures take getting used to.

They sure do. I would never have dreamed of taking my babies or children into licensed premises, even if I could have.

I got a culture shock at that here.

Another example of different cultures.

[Christina]

I think a major problem is that dog training is so incredibly expensive here.

1 on 1 training I understand is expensive but group training I think should be a lot cheaper than it is.

$40 a lesson is crazy expensive and out of reach of a lot of people including myself.

We are lucky enough to find a trainer that would give us a private lesson with our 2 dogs for $30 and we went to the Knox dog club at $80 a year for 2 people. But otherwise it would have been all on our own

Group training here is about $2 to $5 a class with a yearly fee of about $12 to $20. No complaints about that, cheap.

[Lady Flying Furball]

And dogs are allowed in some places on public transport- in Victoria they are allowed on trains. The other day I got onto a Sydney bus and saw a man with a papillion on his lap!!

Yeah, that's scotty, the North Bondi pap. He travels every day into the city

[oakway]

dee lee

I think you may have misunderstood my comment

About

...........This is something that you would not find in Australia............

I was referring to the holding of Dog Shows in the Ball Rooms of prominent Australian Hotels.

It would be an extremely rare event to happen in Australia.

Plus whole floors of the Hotel being booked out just for the owners and handlers and their four legged exhibits.

I was not referring in any way, weather dogs may or may not stay in hotels in Australia.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I agree with Oakway. I'm in Europe on business staying in a Hilton. It has wooden floor in the room and accepts pets as do most hotels including the major prestige chains. Try it at a Hilton in Australia and see how far you get.

I think the difference is that in Australia accommodation that takes dogs is the exception, not the norm. And a lot of what is described as "dog friendly" actually means "we won't freak if you park your trailer with dogs in it near the room" rather than "you can have your dog inside and there is a fenced area for them to toilet".

[Monah]

I grew up in the 60s and also remember dogs being everywhere, even at school, and no problems re fights or attacks, we had many purebreds, they were more the norm where I was than crossbred dogs.

I've been checking out wildlife sanctuaries and national parks OS (as I want to visit some) and many have kennels available to place your dogs while you visit! and also stipulate how dangerous it is to leave your dog in a car etc.

With our long distances here I think aust should have this service available too. I know many people who go round aust, and hit trouble when they wish to see Kakadu and many other places, they either cannot go, or have to board their dog/s a few hundred ks away while they visit the park, then go back and pick dogs up etc. many just dont go at all.

recently friends here went to a beach near Bundaberg that is ok for dogs, but you have to drive through a 'national park' area, they had dogs in the car (yes, not allowed I know) and when they got to the beach, they and many others were fined for having dogs there, no signs etc. anywhere. told you can only take dogs if you have a boat. :p how silly. fined $400 for each dog!

re cafes, we had one for several years, always had dogs and fed them and watered them. fine with council and health dept. BUT, there are regs here in QLD (and I think elsewhere) that state this is not allowed. it is up to very LOCAL authorities what you can or cannot do, and they CAN fine you, change their miind etc. anytime.

We even had PR pics done with our dogs inside the cafe , all over the paper, nothing said.that does not mean it's 'allowed' though.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Monah

[LizT]

I think a major problem is that dog training is so incredibly expensive here.

1 on 1 training I understand is expensive but group training I think should be a lot cheaper than it is.

$40 a lesson is crazy expensive and out of reach of a lot of people including myself.

We are lucky enough to find a trainer that would give us a private lesson with our 2 dogs for $30 and we went to the Knox dog club at $80 a year for 2 people. But otherwise it would have been all on our own

Group training here is about $2 to $5 a class with a yearly fee of about $12 to $20. No complaints about that, cheap.

GSD Club training is $2 per visit but the membership fee is around $100.

[LizT]

And dogs are allowed in some places on public transport- in Victoria they are allowed on trains. The other day I got onto a Sydney bus and saw a man with a papillion on his lap!!

Yeah, that's scotty, the North Bondi pap. He travels every day into the city

In the 1980's when taking trains to work I saw someone fined for having a dog on a train. I used to sneak mine on weekends so I could go visit my mum and dad. Just local Metropolitaon trains in Melbourne, used to be called Vicrail. I doubt they bother to change that rule, except of course guide dogs as per the usual arrangement.

Taxis wont take pet dogs. We were lucky when our car broke down that the taxi driver happily allowed our Cavalier with us. If it had been our GSD he would probably have travelled with the Towtruck driver and my husband. I hope.

[LizT]

(dogs at cafes)

violating many council rulings and health codes

I've done extensive internet searches about this and all I could find is that "animals are not allowed in food preparation areas". So a dog sitting in the eating area - is not breaking this rule. And in fact, guide dogs (for blind people) are not allowed to be refused. And I think the rules are beginning to include disability help dogs besides just dogs that assist blind people.

Same with hotels. While a hotel might choose to ban dogs, it isn't for "health reasons".

Really, we're much more likely to get "health problems" from other humans than our dogs.

I couldn't agree more. Yet I did see a news story last year about certain councils fining Sidewalk Cafes despite those Cafes trying to be "dog friendly". It was on ACA so who knows.

Perhaps it was "Local Council Bylaws???"

Edited March 11, 2011 by LizT

[mita]

So whilst I understand the romantic nostalgia

, it's a fact. Australia is a very unfriendly country when it comes to dogs, having lived in both the U.K. and Europe and travelled extensively overseas I can vouch for that.

Yes, family & friends who've travelled in the UK and Europe have said the same. Like, my brother & wife were taken by those taxi drivers in Paris who take their own dogs to work every day.

As to taxis here, just carrying dogs as passengers. Years back, I phoned a Brisbane taxi company to ask could an elderly lady take her small dog to the vet in a cab.. They told me it was up to individual drivers if they'd be willing. And for the lady to phone & book ahead saying what she wanted.

I have no idea if the position has since changed. There's generally more regulations in place now.

In some areas, it's getting slightly better. I read in The Weekend Australian that the travel market inside Australia is changing to meet a market where people are wanting to bring their pets with them, on holidays.

[sas]

I don't know what it is, but Aussies in general seem to have an aversion towards keeping dogs inside and taking them to training classes, or training them in general.

I am European originally, and in Europe 99% of dogs are kept inside with the families, even during the day when the family is at work. Most dogs are trained, a lot of them are taken to training classes from an early age. Clicker training and crating is much more popular over there than what it is here in Australia.

Here, when we walked past a dog we usually get lunged at or the dog pulls like crazy to get to us. In Europe, dogs are walked off leash and ignore all strangers and other dogs, and are generally much more well behaved. If your dog isn't trained in Europe, you would be embarrassed to be seen in public with it, and other dog owners would frown at you for not bothering to train your dog.

Don't know why, but that was one of the first things I noticed when I moved here.

The European dogs I believe are generally more well behaved in public because they have that opportunity. Dogs are not welcome in many public places in Australia and therefore the dogs are not greatly socialised on those levels....if they were then I believe they would be similar to the European dogs.

Edited March 11, 2011 by MEH

[mita]

The European dogs I believe are generally more well behaved in public because they have that opportunity. Dogs are not welcome in many public places in Australia and therefore the dogs are not greatly socialised on those levels....if they were then I believe they would be similar to the European dogs.

A good point.