'impure' Dalmatian Angers Traditionalists At The Elite Pedigre

[shortstep]

Can someone explain to me about the spots on the health uric acid dogs.

How do the spots look different on the healthy normal uric acid level dogs as compared to the spots on the affected high level uric acid dogs?

I know they have some white hairs in the spots, is that it? How visable are these white hairs?

Do the spots also make patches, are patches unacceptable in dals?

I was told the healthy low uric acid spots do not meet the standard. How do the healthy dogs spot not meet the standard?

Would a dog with the healthy low uric acid spots not look like a dal?

Has there ever been any consideration to changing the standard for the spots so breeders would select for the dogs healthy low uric acid spots?

[The Spotted Devil]

Can someone explain to me about the spots on the health uric acid dogs.

How do the spots look different on the healthy normal uric acid level dogs as compared to the spots on the affected high level uric acid dogs?

I know they have some white hairs in the spots, is that it? How visable are these white hairs?

Do the spots also make patches, are patches unacceptable in dals?

I was told the healthy low uric acid spots do not meet the standard. How do the healthy dogs spot not meet the standard?

Would a dog with the healthy low uric acid spots not look like a dal?

Has there ever been any consideration to changing the standard for the spots so breeders would select for the dogs healthy low uric acid spots?

Just going on the photo in the article, her spotting looks fine I don't understand why the LUA spots don't meet the standard.

All spots have some white hairs. Spots are not present at birth. Patches have NO white hairs. Patches are present at birth. Patches are considered a fault in the show ring but are associated with lower rates of deafness (possibly extent of pigmentation within the ear). Some breeders have no problems with having a few patched puppies pop up because they have better pigmentation all around (dark colour and whiter white) and lower incidence of deafness.

As a guess, I would suggest that the introduction of the Pointer would increase the incidence of patches in a litter.

[Jed]

Shortstep, did you hear about the spots on the UA dogs from a reliable source, or is it just rumour?

Some keen people don't have much idea, and disseminate incorrect information with such authority you think it just must be right

It would be interesting to know how much resistance there really is to the Dointers (sorry!!). There will always be people who do not understand genetics.

OSS - 4th generation is considered pure in any upgrading process - sheep, goats, cattle, horses, dogs. Some registries ask for more but it is not necessary.

It wouldn't bother me to have a dog without deletorious genes bred using an outcross - as long as it was 5th or 6th cross, and as long as the quality was there. However, I wouldn't want to be involved in the upgrading. it means keeping too many dogs, and there is also the potential for things to do wrong. I've done it with ponies - which certainly takes longer and it is a pita.

I would, however, resist "backcrossing" to accede to demands from anyone with little knowledge of purebred dogs. I notice all the bad press never has any facts about the problems in dog breeds, or specific items in the standard, or factual comments on "breeding for beauty" and a list of the faults caused thereby.

[myValkyrie]

Janba, in the case of the boxer, one gene only was introduced. And in case, the corgi had no nasty recessives.

www.steymere.com

Just wanted to say thanks for the link Jed - fascinating stuff

[shortstep]

Shortstep, did you hear about the spots on the UA dogs from a reliable source, or is it just rumour?

I read this first, which is included in a list of reasons why the AKC does not want the healthy Dals allowed in the register.

http://www.thedogplace.org/Breeder/Genetic...-11031_Boyd.asp

The Harvard geneticists who discovered the Dalmatian gene for high uric acid in 1938 made it a point to illustrate their article showing that low uric acid Dalmatians bred by backcross techniques displayed spotting patterns that did not approach that which is called for in the AKC standard of the breed. We have seen strong evidence of that finding in the majority of the Low Uric Acid Dalmatians of today…. 73 years later. The question then becomes “what else, less visible to the naked eye, came along with this mutated gene and what are the affects of these other things, if any, on the Dalmatian for now and in the future?”

So to me they are saying a couple of things in the above paragraph.

1. That the white hairs found in the healthy dogs spots do not meet the breed standard. 2. That the non white hair spots of the Dalmatian are linked to the disease, but they might also be linked so some other unknown traits that might be lost if they breed out the disease.

So then I went looking for the Harvard geneticists and found this

http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/schaible_research.htm

Dalmatian-type Spotting, Urinary Stones and Hives

Dalmatians generally are born with pure white hair because those that do have patches of pigment (large spots like those of the English Pointer and Brittany Spaniel) are usually not retained for breeding. Many of the Dalmatian-type spots are present in the skin at birth but they do not appear in the hair coat until about two weeks of age. The spots become fully pigmented. Few, if any, white hairs are interspersed through the spots. Evidently almost all of the white hairs of the birth coat located within the spots are replace with pigmented hairs as the spots form in the coat.

The Dalmatian-type spotting is found in many of the hunting breeds but is called “ticking”. Ticking and Dalmatian-type spotting are both believed to be determined by the same gene (Little, 1957). The tick spots of other breeds differ from Dalmatian-type spotting in that the spots are smaller and have white hairs interspersed throughout. Apparently, the white hairs of the birth coat of the other breeds are not replaced with pigmented ones during the formation of the spots.

Trimble & Keeler (1938) observed that the absence of interspersed white hairs in Dalmatian-type spots was associated with a defect in the metabolism of uric acid, not only in the Dalmatian breed, but in the offspring resulting from Dalmatian-Collie hybrids being backcrossed to purebred Dalmatians. In the remainder of the backcross progeny, interspersed white hairs in Dalmatian-type spots were associated with normal metabolism of uric acid. In 1971 and 1972, I repeated Trimble & Keeler’s crosses and found that the same associations generally, but not always, occurred in the backcross progeny. Because the composition of the coats of Collies and Dalmatians differ so much it was possible that variation in the coats might have had the effect on the distribution of white hairs within the Dalmatian-type spots of the backcross progeny. The Collie was not the best choice of breed to use in genetic analysis.

In 1973-1976, I repeated the breeding experiments again except that the Dalmatian was crossed to its nearest relative, the English Pointer, to minimize genetic differences except for the pair of genes controlling uric acid metabolism (Schaible 1976). The hybrid offspring had normal metabolism of uric acid and small tick spots containing interspersed white hairs (Fig. 1). When the hybrid animals were backcrossed to Dalmatians, 16 of the 36 offspring (nearly the expected 50%) had normal metabolism of uric acid. But 5 of the 16 were exceptions to Trimble & Keeler’s observations in that those 5 had few or no white hairs interspersed within the Dalmatian-type spots. The following conclusions are based on these results: (1) Absence of interspersed white hairs in Dalmatian-type spots is not an additional effect of the gene responsible for the defect in uric acid metabolism. (2) The absence of interspersed white hairs in Dalmatian-type spots is the effect of a separate recessive gene. (3) The locations (loci) of both genes are close together on the same chromosome (closely linked). (4) Absence of interspersed white hairs in Dalmatian-type spots and the defect in uric acid metabolism are associated in the Dalmatian breed because the gene for the uric acid defect, instead of its normal allele, just happened to be present with the gene for absence of interspersed white hairs in the primary progenitor of the breed. As selection for absence of interspersed white hairs made the responsible gene homozygous in all members of the breed, the gene for the uric acid defect was inadvertently made homozygous as well because of its close linkage on the same chromosome. The fourth point is speculative but the events are likely.

Keeler (1940) attempted to locate Dalmatians that did not have the uric acid defect in Britain, as well as in the United States, but was unsuccessful. In the subsequent 40 years, Dalmatians have been used for demonstrations and research repeated in medical schools because their uric acid level in the urine is approximately the same as that of man. All of those Dalmatians have been found to have the typical elevated levels of uric acid in the urine.

Unfortunately two serious health problems are positively correlated with the high uric acid levels resulting from homozygosity of the gene for the defect in uric acid metabolism. These are a unique form of dermatitis (hives) and the urate form of urinary calculi (bladder stones and kidney stones). There seems to be little doubt that both health problems are additional effects of the gene responsible for the defect in uric acid metabolism. Reduction of uric acid levels in the blood and urine by feeding allopurinol and meat-free diet relieves the symptoms of both stones and dermatitis. (Lowry et.al. 1973). Such a regimen of treatment is expected to be necessary for some Dalmatians and accepted as the usual way of life by most experienced breeders. However, the trouble and expense of maintaining the family pet in this manner are more than most families are willing to bear.

Dalmatians with subclinical cases of urinary calculi and dermatitis contribute considerably to the propagation of the health problems. Kidney stones can be found on autopsy of some Dalmatians that are apparently health throughout their lives. A great hindrance to effective selection is that relatively late onset of both diseases in those animals that do develop symptoms. Most Dalmatians that develop symptoms do not do so until after one year of age. Breeders are reluctant to remove animals from their breeding programs once they have selected their best show prospects and raised them to maturity. Although the breeder may seriously consider removing the dog from the breeding program when it has an acute attack of either disease, his determination to do so usually wanes when the dog regains his health and again shows good potential of winning in the ring. Most of the breeders who cannot bring themselves to the decision to removed affected mature animals from the breeding program probably could make that decision if puppies that were likely to develop symptoms could be identified by 6 weeks of age.

Although there is no method know for identifying all Dalmatian puppies that will eventually develop symptoms of urinary calculi and/or dermatitis, there is a relatively simple breeding program that will allow for the selection of puppies that will not develop symptoms. Such puppies could be produced and identified if the normal gene responsible for metabolism of uric acid to allantoin could be substituted for this defective allele in some individuals of the Dalmatian breed. This is now known to be possible.

The production of 5 puppies having normal metabolism of uric acid and absence of interspersed white hairs in the Dalmatian-type spots in the backcrossing experiments, demonstrated that the gene for the defect in uric acid metabolism was not required to achieve the spotting pattern described in the standard. Furthermore, the normal allele for metabolism of uric acid to allantoin would eliminate the prevalent form of dermatitis and thus facilitate attainment of the coat that is described in the revision of the standard currently being considered by the Dalmatian Club of America. The proposed wording is “Sleek and glossy in appearance, the coat is in healthy condition, free from blemish.”

In 1976 I advised the Board of Governors of the Dalmatian Club of America that I was going to attempt to breed dogs that would fit the standard as well as most show-quality Dalmatians but would also have normal metabolism of uric acid. From the 5 exceptional puppies produced by the backcross of the Dalmatian-English Pointer hybrid to Dalmatian, I selected the one that fit the standard best (Fig. 2) and backcrossed him to a registered Dalmatian. Fifty-percent of the resulting puppies had normal metabolsim of uric acid and consistently had Dalmatian-type spots without interspersed white hairs. The same procedure was continued for two more generations, through backcross four.

The pedigree of the progeny of the fourth backcross shows the English Pointer as one of the 32 ancestors in the fifth generation, the other 31 being registered Dalmatians. Therefore, the offspring of the fourth backcross are 31/32 Dalmatian.

The spotting pattern and overall type improved with each backcross to the point that the progeny of backcross four (Figs 3&4) are indistinguishable from purebred Dalmatians. Although 10 of the 12 pups were patched in the litter produced by the cross of the Dalmatian and English Pointer (Fig 1, see patch on side of head including ear), the portion of patching decreased to 1 of 13 puppies being patched in the litter resulting form backcross four. The latter frequency of patching is well within the normal range for the Dalmatian and is probably less than the average.

The American Kennel Club is considering* registration of the dog and bitch shown in Figs 3 and 4 so that breeders will have an opportunity to select for Dalmatians that have normal metabolism of uric acid. Given that registered Dalmatians having normal uric acid become available, they may have to be proven in the show ring before the majority of breeders will be interested in them. I have been showing dogs for 33 years and will show Dalmatians with normal uric acid metabolism if registration of them is granted. Stud service and breeding stock will be available to other breeders at the usual price of registered Dalmatians. Many breeders, who are concerned about the health problems in Dalmatians, have already offered assistance in the backcross breeding program even though the dogs are not registered. If registration is granted, I am sure that a number of them will breed show-winning Dalmatians with normal uric acid metabolism and thus help to establish them in the breed.

The British Kennel Club requires four backcrosses to registered animals of a given breed before the backcross progeny can be registered (Burns & Fraser 1966, p25). The American Kennel Club does not currently have such a policy but it seems to be warranted when (1) all members of the breed are homozygous for a gene that is responsible for health problems and contributes nothing desirable to the achievement of the breed standard. (2) the health problems can be resolved by backcrossing the normal allele of the defective gene into the breed.

Initially, Dalmatians having normal metabolism of uric acid will all be produced from backcross mating and therefore will all be heterozygotes. They will comprise about 50 percent of the puppies in each backcross litter. They can be identified at 3 weeks of age when it becomes possible to obtain enough urine in a sample to conduct an assay for the ratio of uric acid to creatinine. Eventually, homozygous normal Dalmatians should be produced by breeding of heterozygotes together. When homozygous normal Dalmatians are bred to the current purebred type, all of the puppies will have normal metabolism and require no testing.

It is unlikely that the gene for the uric acid defect will ever be purged completely from the Dalmatian breed even if all breeders should insist on using only dogs with normal metabolism for breeding. Progeny testing would have to be employed to detect carriers of the uric acid defect in the same manner as is required to eliminate any other undesirable recessive gene (Robinson 1972). Simply selecting normal dogs for breeding without progeny testing would insure that most Dalmatian puppies would be free of dermatitis and urinary calculi. That would be a definite improvement in the breed.

So I am confused, not just about the spots, but the whole opposition. However, this breeding program has been going on for a long long time, the dogs are healthy and look great. I would think that the spots having some white hairs in some of the healthy dogs would not even be given a second thought. It seems that the patches can be well controlled and are no more frequent than in the sick dals. We also know that dals with patches are much less likely to be deaf, which is another big problem in the breed, so I am sure there are lots of folks who would not mind a patch. (which begs the question, do the healthy dals with white hair in their spots also have a lower rate of deafness?)

I would think that the standard could proudly be changed to reflect this, that a few white hairs in spots is not a fault and in fact indicates what they have known since 1938, that white hairs in the spots means it is a healthy dog.

I do not see any grounds for the other arguments presented in top link, which is that lack of hairs show linkage to the disesea, which clearly it can, so this means it could be linked to other desirable traits they want to preserve. But I won't go into this right now as I want to stay on subject of just the appearence of the spots and the standrad.

Edited March 10, 2011 by shortstep

[Jed]

Shortstep, there are people who will not accept it, no matter what. Maybe they don't understand genetics, maybe they do, but don't like it.

We have the people who call the bobtail boxes "Dorgis", even though they are now onto about the 20th generation with no problems, so I guess we also have people who dislike the dalmation. However, a lot of breeders do like it - witness the people who showed the dalmation - but they are not as vocal as the others

It is interesting that the AKC wont register the dogs, yet there are registered ones in UK - so the UKKC is apparently in favour.