Tri Colour Border Collie

[wuffles]

I know you said you love BCs but the Aussies are quite similar and such lovely dogs. And the black tri Aussies are just stunning...

In looks maybe to a degree but they are different breeds and as such do have differences.

Also probably worth mentioning that often BCs and Aussies are on a very different page play and interaction-wise so the temperaments may be harder to match I find them very different breeds but I do know some people have both

[dancinbcs]

Congratulations to Penhryn on proving how easy it is to work out if breeders are trying to rip you off with price for colour. In one day she has rung several breeders, posted on here, found out what a reasonable puppy price is and which reputable breeders may be able to help her acquire a puppy of her prefered colour.

If only other puppy buyers would do this in all breeds they wouldn't fall for all the hype from those cashing in on colour and giving breeders a bad name. It would put an end to breeders doubling the price of inferior dogs just because they are a particular colour. No more $1500-$2000 red or choc BCs and no more "rare blue" SBTs going at $2000 - $3000. All it takes is the brains to ask a few questions but for some reason most buyers don't bother. It seems common sense is no longer very common.

[Mystiqview]

I am with the others on here regarding on doing your homework. I myself have produced both red/white and sable/white in two litters. I also agree to not charge more for colour as for black/white.

One sable pup was given away to a friend, whom you will see on here. $700-$900 seems to be the going price for a quality show puppy from ethical breeders. A few of those I know have had colour in their litters. Red does seem to be the new fashion colour up here.

Health and temperament are very important in this breed. More health issues are coming up that cannot be DNA tested for. These include: testicle issues (mainly not dropping), mouth issues, deafness, epilepsy, lupis (and other immune disorders), other eye problems and exercise induced collapse. All apart from the deafness which can be detected before the pup leaves the breeder cannot be detected until they show it, sometimes not until they reach 2-4 years old. Some things just happen, and its bad luck. Other times, you just have to shake your head in wonder??

There are plenty of disreputable colour breeders popping up here in Queensland. They have no idea of what they have in their yard, no idea on genetics (both colour and what lies behind their dogs, because if they did, they would not be doubling up on a few of them), and no idea WHAT SO EVER, what show quality is. Maybe if they actually step foot in a show ring, they may have get an idea. But they think that because they can sell a pup on Main Registration, it is Show quality. I recently saw one breeder say their show quality dog was one with a blue eye. This is a breed fault in the show ring.

Please be patient. There are some great ethical breeders out there who have colour in their lines and do all the right things.

As far as sex goes. I think the important thing is to choose a temperament in the puppy that compliments what you already have at home. I don't necessarily believe in the male and female rule. If you have say a more timid style puppy, don't go bringing home the social butterfly puppy that likes to be a little dominant and vice versa.

As a general rule. There is the social butterfly pup in a litter, and the introvert pup/s in a litter. Then there are those in between. Pick one to match your lifestyle. It may be the opposite sex to what you were originally looking at.

[silverdog]

Congratulations to Penhryn on proving how easy it is to work out if breeders are trying to rip you off with price for colour. In one day she has rung several breeders, posted on here, found out what a reasonable puppy price is and which reputable breeders may be able to help her acquire a puppy of her prefered colour.

If only other puppy buyers would do this in all breeds they wouldn't fall for all the hype from those cashing in on colour and giving breeders a bad name. It would put an end to breeders doubling the price of inferior dogs just because they are a particular colour. No more $1500-$2000 red or choc BCs and no more "rare blue" SBTs going at $2000 - $3000. All it takes is the brains to ask a few questions but for some reason most buyers don't bother. It seems common sense is no longer very common.

Excellent post!

[Snout Girl]

I recently saw one breeder say their show quality dog was one with a blue eye. This is a breed fault in the show ring.

It was my understanding that blue eye/s in a blue merle border collie are permissable in the show ring? but a disqualifying fault in any other colour? correct me if I have read the breed standard wrong

Edited March 5, 2011 by Snout Girl

[Mystiqview]

I recently saw one breeder say their show quality dog was one with a blue eye. This is a breed fault in the show ring.

It was my understanding that blue eye/s in a blue merle border collie are permissable in the show ring? but a disqualifying fault in any other colour? correct me if I have read the breed standard wrong

You are correct.

The dog that was "show quality" was black/white. So a blue eye a disqualifying fault. There is another "breeder" up here who has a chocolate bitch and promotes the fact the dog has TWO blue eyes.

How these can advertise they breed "show quality" dogs, is beyond me.

[benshiva]

Black and Whites are cheaper. My husband has his heart set on a tri as he had one many moons ago. Black and whites and tri were the go years ago and now there are so many different colours. I don't like the merles. They look scary. It takes away everything of what a border collie should look like. Sorry breeders who have them.

This should NOT be the case. You are buying the same bloodlines with a coloured puppy as you would the black and white ones in that litter. DO NOT pay more than around $900-1000 for a very good quality Border Collie puppy.

The other colours are in fact NOT rare as was stated earlier, and there are often good coloured puppies available for sale. You just have to be prepared to wait a little while.

Also as a side note. the QUALITY coloured dogs always do very well in the breed ring. It is the average ones that get shown just because of their colour that don't do as well. I know as I spend EVERY weekend around the show rings. Off topic I know

Good luck with your search for a lovely BC.

[benshiva]

Congratulations to Penhryn on proving how easy it is to work out if breeders are trying to rip you off with price for colour. In one day she has rung several breeders, posted on here, found out what a reasonable puppy price is and which reputable breeders may be able to help her acquire a puppy of her prefered colour.

If only other puppy buyers would do this in all breeds they wouldn't fall for all the hype from those cashing in on colour and giving breeders a bad name. It would put an end to breeders doubling the price of inferior dogs just because they are a particular colour. No more $1500-$2000 red or choc BCs and no more "rare blue" SBTs going at $2000 - $3000. All it takes is the brains to ask a few questions but for some reason most buyers don't bother. ;) It seems common sense is no longer very common.

Excellent post!

x2

[Lollipup]

I always wanted a border collie. Then when the time came I decided I wanted a red one. I saw a LOT of dodgy stuff when I was looking. REALLY dodgy stuff. Then I found Chester and thought all was well - registered breeder, lovely breeder.

I always research things a lot. Turned out that even though I researched a lot, I didn't research enough. I didn't find out about the breeding for colour issues until later after I bought him.

I don't think his breeder bred ONLY for colour. The litter had both B&W and reds in it, more B&Ws than reds. I'm not sure if she charged more for the reds but I paid $950. Other reds I asked about from other breeders were $1500 and over. It was her first litter and I think she did the best she knew and had good intentions. But I think she should have researched more too. Chester had both testicles stay in the abdomen (bi-lateral cryptorchid) which cost me a lot to get him desexed and have them found. Now he has mild elbow dysplasia in one elbow. He is 11 months old.

I love Chester but his health issues will always remind me that I should have researched more. I thought I was doing great buying from a registered breeder who shows, he is my first pedigree dog ever and not a great example health wise. Fortunately he has a wonderful temperament. I could have done a lot worse.

It kinda stings to read dancinbc's words after all this but if I had researched more first, I probably wouldn't have even cared so much about colour and just bought a pup from the best breeder I could find who had done more research themselves.

So yes, good on you for finding this out first. Avoid those who breed for colour or who charge more for it. Choose a dog on the more important qualities.

All the best in your search.

[lilli_star]

Health and temperament are very important in this breed. More health issues are coming up that cannot be DNA tested for. These include: testicle issues (mainly not dropping), mouth issues, deafness, epilepsy, lupis (and other immune disorders), other eye problems and exercise induced collapse. All apart from the deafness which can be detected before the pup leaves the breeder cannot be detected until they show it, sometimes not until they reach 2-4 years old. Some things just happen, and its bad luck. Other times, you just have to shake your head in wonder??

I apologise for hijacking this thread, but I had no idea dogs could get Lupus Is it treated in the same way as humans?

[dancinbcs]

I always wanted a border collie. Then when the time came I decided I wanted a red one. I saw a LOT of dodgy stuff when I was looking. REALLY dodgy stuff. Then I found Chester and thought all was well - registered breeder, lovely breeder.

I always research things a lot. Turned out that even though I researched a lot, I didn't research enough. I didn't find out about the breeding for colour issues until later after I bought him.

I don't think his breeder bred ONLY for colour. The litter had both B&W and reds in it, more B&Ws than reds. I'm not sure if she charged more for the reds but I paid $950. Other reds I asked about from other breeders were $1500 and over. It was her first litter and I think she did the best she knew and had good intentions. But I think she should have researched more too. Chester had both testicles stay in the abdomen (bi-lateral cryptorchid) which cost me a lot to get him desexed and have them found. Now he has mild elbow dysplasia in one elbow. He is 11 months old.

I love Chester but his health issues will always remind me that I should have researched more. I thought I was doing great buying from a registered breeder who shows, he is my first pedigree dog ever and not a great example health wise. Fortunately he has a wonderful temperament. I could have done a lot worse.

It kinda stings to read dancinbc's words after all this but if I had researched more first, I probably wouldn't have even cared so much about colour and just bought a pup from the best breeder I could find who had done more research themselves.

So yes, good on you for finding this out first. Avoid those who breed for colour or who charge more for it. Choose a dog on the more important qualities.

All the best in your search.

You did a pretty good job researching your breeder but letting the colour issue take priority, would have ruled out other good breeders. Buying from a first time breeder can be a gamble unless you can get to talk to more experienced breeders that have the lines behind the litter you are looking at. I often speak to buyers that are buying from breeders that have bred down from my lines.

In your case you would have known at least a little about OCD risk if you could have done this, but it can still occur out of the blue in lines where it has not been seen before. The undescended testicles are pretty common in the breed and obvious at 8 weeks so that should have been pointed out when you bought Chester. Personally I would give a partial refund to cover the additional desexing cost if I ever produced a puppy with undescended testicles that were more complex to remove. Thankfully I am one of the few breeders that have never had this problem so far but I have also discounted for disqualifying faults like blue eyes, before, not charged more for them.

[Lollipup]

I always wanted a border collie. Then when the time came I decided I wanted a red one. I saw a LOT of dodgy stuff when I was looking. REALLY dodgy stuff. Then I found Chester and thought all was well - registered breeder, lovely breeder.

I always research things a lot. Turned out that even though I researched a lot, I didn't research enough. I didn't find out about the breeding for colour issues until later after I bought him.

I don't think his breeder bred ONLY for colour. The litter had both B&W and reds in it, more B&Ws than reds. I'm not sure if she charged more for the reds but I paid $950. Other reds I asked about from other breeders were $1500 and over. It was her first litter and I think she did the best she knew and had good intentions. But I think she should have researched more too. Chester had both testicles stay in the abdomen (bi-lateral cryptorchid) which cost me a lot to get him desexed and have them found. Now he has mild elbow dysplasia in one elbow. He is 11 months old.

I love Chester but his health issues will always remind me that I should have researched more. I thought I was doing great buying from a registered breeder who shows, he is my first pedigree dog ever and not a great example health wise. Fortunately he has a wonderful temperament. I could have done a lot worse.

It kinda stings to read dancinbc's words after all this but if I had researched more first, I probably wouldn't have even cared so much about colour and just bought a pup from the best breeder I could find who had done more research themselves.

So yes, good on you for finding this out first. Avoid those who breed for colour or who charge more for it. Choose a dog on the more important qualities.

All the best in your search.

You did a pretty good job researching your breeder but letting the colour issue take priority, would have ruled out other good breeders. Buying from a first time breeder can be a gamble unless you can get to talk to more experienced breeders that have the lines behind the litter you are looking at. I often speak to buyers that are buying from breeders that have bred down from my lines.

In your case you would have known at least a little about OCD risk if you could have done this, but it can still occur out of the blue in lines where it has not been seen before. The undescended testicles are pretty common in the breed and obvious at 8 weeks so that should have been pointed out when you bought Chester. Personally I would give a partial refund to cover the additional desexing cost if I ever produced a puppy with undescended testicles that were more complex to remove. Thankfully I am one of the few breeders that have never had this problem so far but I have also discounted for disqualifying faults like blue eyes, before, not charged more for them.

Thanks dancinbcs. By the time I get to buy another dog I will be equipt to research my brains out!

When we realised the cryptorchidism and told the breeder, she had no idea. I had to explain to her what cryptorchid meant. But at least she read up on it after that.

[piper]

Congratulations to Penhryn on proving how easy it is to work out if breeders are trying to rip you off with price for colour. In one day she has rung several breeders, posted on here, found out what a reasonable puppy price is and which reputable breeders may be able to help her acquire a puppy of her prefered colour.

If only other puppy buyers would do this in all breeds they wouldn't fall for all the hype from those cashing in on colour and giving breeders a bad name. It would put an end to breeders doubling the price of inferior dogs just because they are a particular colour. No more $1500-$2000 red or choc BCs and no more "rare blue" SBTs going at $2000 - $3000. All it takes is the brains to ask a few questions but for some reason most buyers don't bother. It seems common sense is no longer very common.

Another good post Dancinbcs. You always make so much sense.

Yes, if only more people would query the price and realise that the price should not be inflated for colour, it would solve the problem real quick. And I also suspect it would stop a few of the money hungry breeders out there if they could not get stupidly inflated prices for pups.

[Mystiqview]

Lollipop.

If the breeder did more research on her breeding, she would have realised herself that cryptorchidism runs strongly behind Chester's breeding. Very high chance the sire had crypto siblings.

With that pedigree, it would also be known that red was a high possibility in the litter.

The owner of the sire, should also have listed possible problems behind their dog. The breeder of the bitch, knowing it was going to a breed home, should have done the same.

Some times it really irks me when breeders are not forthcoming with information about their lines when selling a breed bitch or allowing a dog out at stud dog. If more breeders were, I am sure some of the problems encountered, maybe avoided.

[Lollipup]

Lollipop.

If the breeder did more research on her breeding, she would have realised herself that cryptorchidism runs strongly behind Chester's breeding. Very high chance the sire had crypto siblings.

With that pedigree, it would also be known that red was a high possibility in the litter.

The owner of the sire, should also have listed possible problems behind their dog. The breeder of the bitch, knowing it was going to a breed home, should have done the same.

Some times it really irks me when breeders are not forthcoming with information about their lines when selling a breed bitch or allowing a dog out at stud dog. If more breeders were, I am sure some of the problems encountered, maybe avoided.

Yes - more effort is needed on both sides.

[Sherlot]

Health and temperament are very important in this breed. More health issues are coming up that cannot be DNA tested for. These include: testicle issues (mainly not dropping), mouth issues, deafness, epilepsy, lupis (and other immune disorders), other eye problems and exercise induced collapse. All apart from the deafness which can be detected before the pup leaves the breeder cannot be detected until they show it, sometimes not until they reach 2-4 years old. Some things just happen, and its bad luck. Other times, you just have to shake your head in wonder??

I apologise for hijacking this thread, but I had no idea dogs could get Lupus Is it treated in the same way as humans?

yes, but kills about half the dogs in the first year of diagnosis...

[dasha]

The working border collies do come with a larger colour variety and are also a lot cheaper than the ANKC lines.

You could get a well bred, working line pup for about $400-$500.

There is quite a large number of tri coloured trialling dogs, short or long haired about the traps.