Lhok Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi A bit of backstory here, my 10 year old dog hates things that move on wheels. Over the last 2 months I have been slowly trying to get her accustomed to baby things as I am due in early July. So far we have been improving but in the last week and a bit she seems to be going backwards in training rather then forwards. We originally started at 15 paces away from the stationary pram and moved slowly until we hit 5 paces away. However I noticed that if I move her forward she goes into avoidence for example:not looking at the pram, turning her head away, licking lips and making a horrible pongy smell. But when I move her back to the previous comfortable distance of 6 paces away she still displays the same signs. What am I doing wrong? She is fine with the cot, bassinet thingy I have and she loves all the sniffing all the other goodies I have gotten so far for the baby. I would love to be able to have her come along on walks with baby, husband and I without her being so far away. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Gee that's hard, isn't it? If it was a wheelbarrow or something you could transport her meals to her and serve them from it so that she associates it with yummy noms, but that might not be a good idea for something you intend to transport a tiny bub in... (By the time bub is sitting up in it and waving rusks around, it will eventually be associated with yummy noms anyway. ) Hopefully one of the clued-up trainers will have a real suggestion to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 We originally started at 15 paces away from the stationary pram and moved slowly until we hit 5 paces away. What training method are you using at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) We originally started at 15 paces away from the stationary pram and moved slowly until we hit 5 paces away. However I noticed that if I move her forward she goes into avoidence for example:not looking at the pram, turning her head away, licking lips and making a horrible pongy smell. But when I move her back to the previous comfortable distance of 6 paces away she still displays the same signs. What am I doing wrong? She is fine with the cot, bassinet thingy I have and she loves all the sniffing all the other goodies I have gotten so far for the baby. I would love to be able to have her come along on walks with baby, husband and I without her being so far away. --Lhok Avoid YOU moving her forward. Set up the pram. Have it in a room such as the lounge/family room. And leave it there. Ignore your dog's advances to or away from it. When you know your dog is looking, go over and pat the pram. Tell the pram it is a good pram, a nice pram. Don't make a huge drama about it all - just keep it low key. Don't look at your dog while you are doing this. If your dog approaches in any shape or form, ignore your dog. Let your dog investigate the pram at your dog's own pace. NB : It might be helpful if you leave the pram in its collapsed state to begin with - your dog might find that less threatening. At other times : play games in the lounge/family room, ignoring the existence of the pram. Eg. A game of tug; a small game of ball. Training for sit; tricks. All whilst ignoring the pram. But make it all positive stuff and initially start where you are between the pram and your dog. Just give your dog some time to work it out and become accustomed without feeling as though there is any focus or pressure. ETA: It might even be better for your dog if you do this outside, where there is more space, to begin with. ETA: Wasn't going to post the "next step" because I tend to find people push too far too fast and aren't happy at just working at the pace the dog sets. But once your dog is ok with the above (not necessarily to mean s/he loves the pram, just doesn't have an anal gland melt down at the sight and nearness of it), then toss some really tasty treats around and let your dog hunt for them. Gradually starting out from the pram but then over time making it so that most if not all the treats need closer approach to the pram. Edited for spelling Edited March 1, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 We originally started at 15 paces away from the stationary pram and moved slowly until we hit 5 paces away. What training method are you using at the moment? Praise and reward when calm or looking at the pram. Probably not a good description. I have never done any clicker training with her so wasn't really sure how to start. Thinking I should maybe get a trainer to come and have a look but again not sure. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 We originally started at 15 paces away from the stationary pram and moved slowly until we hit 5 paces away. What training method are you using at the moment? Praise and reward when calm or looking at the pram. Probably not a good description. I have never done any clicker training with her so wasn't really sure how to start. Thinking I should maybe get a trainer to come and have a look but again not sure. --Lhok Just finished watching a DVD from Susan Garrett called Crate Games. In one section, she demonstrates how using the click and treat method, she can get a long legged smooth coat border collie to go into a crate that's half his size in order to show how to get fearful dogs into a crate. The same method could be used to get your dog to walk next to the pram and want to be there. There are a number of threads about clicker training but the basic idea is to pair the sound of a clicker, word or hand signal (called a marker) to a treat. We use 'Yes' in a quiet super excited voice because I don't always have a clicker with me. You start by saying Yes and immediately giving a treat, then repeat this a number of times until you can see that the dog has associated the word with a treat. Make sure the treat is something she really likes. This is most commonly called charging the marker. The reason you do this is because the dog may do something you like but you probably wont be able to immediately get over to her to reward her. By saying Yes (or clicking etc) exactly at the moment the dog does what you want (called marking) and then giving a treat, the dog knows exactly which behaviour will get a reward because she will now associate the word with a treat. The next step is called shaping a behaviour. You start with the dog and the pram in the same room and try to remove any other distractions (ie people, food, toys). When you start, you should watch the dog very closely (but without staring at her) for any turn of the head or eyes towards the pram. The second she does, mark and treat. Then wait. Look for another turn, then immediately mark and treat. The idea is that you are rewarding her acknowledging the presence of the pram. Be calm, quiet and still in between so that you don't unconsciously guide the dog or reward for a behaviour you don't want. As your dog offers more behaviours ie look with the eye, then turns the head towards, then takes a step towards, then two steps towards and so on, mark and reward. If you mark and treat an eye turn, the next time she does it, mark again. The third time, don't mark. Let her try and work out what behaviour gets a treat. This is where you have to watch closely because she may offer the slightest behaviour in the direction you want and if you're not watching carefully, you may miss it. If she offers a behaviour in the right direction (towards the pram), mark and treat the first couple of times and then not the third as it will encourage her to offer more and more behaviours, one of which could be the one you want, ie when she's constantly looking at the pram, you now only mark and treat when she offers a new behaviour in the direction of the pram. Occasionally give a few extra treats when marking as this adds as extra encouragement. Think of it in the context of doing the dishes. The first few times you do it, you receive $20. The third time you do it, you get $70, the next time you get $20 but you now know that each time you do it, there's a chance you might get $70 - makes you more keen to keep doing it, right? Keep the sessions short so that she doesn't get bored. During a training session, Susan talks about letting the dog make a choice on what it wants to do but minimise the choices it has so that it has more chance of making a correct choice and being rewarded for it. If you want to use this method on your dog but are worried about getting it wrong, try it out on a human first. Have a friend stand in a room with you and explain that you want them to do something but cannot tell them what it is. Tell them they will have to figure it out themselves. You can tell them that when they hear Yes (or a click or whatever you want to use as a marker), they are on the right track. Think of something odd you want them to do, ie put a book on their head and then start the game. Remember to stay quiet and still but watch for any signs that they are heading towards the book, picking it up and putting it on their head. It's a great learning experience for trainers as it shows how effective this method is and how it can be applied to anyone or any animal (works on the OH too - just don't tell them what you're up to!). If you like you can borrow the DVD, otherwise it's available online. PM me if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Will she target an object with her nose or paw, Lhok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I would look to do some active shaping and/ or targeting. Would be a good idea to get a trainer to help you though so that you don't accidentally sensitise her further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Will she target an object with her nose or paw, Lhok? Yes she can target with both front paws and her nose. I will also look into getting a copy of that dvd that Dxenion mentioned too. Not sure about trainers in my area but if anyone could recommend a trainer in the Coffs Harbour area I would be greatly appreciate it. Thanks --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Will she target an object with her nose or paw, Lhok? Yes she can target with both front paws and her nose. I will also look into getting a copy of that dvd that Dxenion mentioned too. Not sure about trainers in my area but if anyone could recommend a trainer in the Coffs Harbour area I would be greatly appreciate it. Thanks --Lhok Hey...that's where I live. I belong to the Dog Training Club there, but don't personally know any speciality dog trainers....I could ask around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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